Reckon I need to stop joking to the French because seems like they really know how to excel at fast maneuver warfare. Thought this was pretty cool
https://youtu.be/dT5U-JQ8Puw
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Reckon I need to stop joking to the French because seems like they really know how to excel at fast maneuver warfare. Thought this was pretty cool
https://youtu.be/dT5U-JQ8Puw
I guess it depends on the military unit of interest, but some elements of the French Armed Forces are on par with anything the Brits or Americans can muster. Consider that the French Foreign Legion is alive and well, and "in town" in several places on the globe...
Bottom line is, if someone messes with an elite forces member or team from darned near ANY country, their day is on its way to being wrecked.
Guess tactics have changed over the years from the drop and run SOP.
France catches a lot of crap. To get a different perspective, read "Verdun", about their fighting in WW1.
The French have always been a formidable military force all the way back to the Dark Ages. The US modeled a lot of its government and military structure after France during its initial formation. I think a lot of American cultural sentiment about the French is rooted in the erroneous belief they were weak and easily conquered in WWII and when France was not supportive of America when they denied the use of their airspace during out bombing of Libya. Make no mistake, the French are not to be trifled with in any capacity. They have been an imperialist big boy on the world scene for centuries and have outstanding military tacticians.
March 7, 1966, General Charles De Gaulle, the French President, informed the United States government that all foreign troops must leave France. This was the result of a series of demands that NATO members remove capabilities (some Nuclear) from French soil beginning in 1959. I have an older cousin who married a French Woman when he was Stationed in France as a USofA Soldier. He returned to the US and stayed with my family for a couple of months as his early discharge was being processed; and while he awaited the US State Department to process a visa for his wife to come to the US. In my opinion the Best quote about the French is derived from that 1966 demand by the French that the USofA Remove ALL Us Soldiers from French soil.
To which the US U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk asked.
"Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?"
The French continue to want to have relationships with the USofA, but not be seen to do so. Basically; they are arrogant and figutatively want the USofA to drop her skirts and service French demands out back in the dark where not even the low level Staff in the house can see. I have a couple of 1st hand encounters with US/French relationships and have no use for them.
Good point about DeGaulle. I think specifically with him, it was his pride of feeling like there was not equality with US and UK. The French have always had a strong colonial attitude like the Brits and it resumed after WWII. Ultimately it was all posturing and trying to make everyone feel France was equal to UK and US. I was stationed in Germany in the late 90s and early 2000s and we had lots of folks stationed at sites in France no one has heard of because there are no large American bases there. I concur with you on the French attitude as it is still arrogant in many respects while I think the Brits are much more humble after their colonial pursuits. I think every country that has a long history of conquering and taking lands needs to look at things with more introspection and humility.
It's a little-acknowledged historical fact that, during the (FIRST) Cold War, it was tacitly agreed among NATO members and affiliates, that France would keep Saharan and northern sub-Saharan Africa (basically all the Francophone countries) communist-free. The policy was most aggressively pursued by France under de Gaulle, and later by Valerie Giscard D'Estaing. While pretty much letting these countries' politics play out as they may, when one of their former colonies elected a pro-Moscow leadership, Giscard would contact the DGSE, who would hire mercenaries (probably with some ghost Foreign Legion elements mixed in) to go and topple the commies and set up a more pro-western government.
Colonel "Mad Mike" Michael Hoare was probably the most famous of the operatives who worked (sometimes) for France. Another was a Major Marc Goossens, who was killed before he did much. Anyway, from 1974 to 1981, that part of Africa remained remarkaby "Leftist-Free".
Further to the south, Rhodesia and South Africa (with some unadvertised assistance from Israel and the U.S., and possibly Portugal & Belgium) more or less kept communism in check. THEN the Berlin wall fell, and support from western Europe & the U.S. dried up. Communism has never done better in Africa than right now, and appears to have competition only from the Islamic Fundamentalists. Who do ya pick outta THOSE two choices?
Worse still, it appears that the communist inroads aren't being made by Russia, but by the PRC with their "Belt and Road" initiatives. They're also in South America.
So name a war the french won.
The French used to win a lot of wars. Thankfully they helped the rebelling colonists in NA against Great Britain near the end of the 18th century, w/o the French there would be no United States. That was a winning war for them.
Also, look at the royalty of GB, Norman. Normans come from Normandy.
The bitter stubby little man Napoleon sort of put them on a bad path by getting the physically better slice of their male population exterminated. I saw a paper written on that a few years back. His massive losses shifted the overall genetics of France.
Exactly. And not only what you mentioned but all the wars they won in the name of colonialism. 30% of the English language is derived from French because of the Norman conquest of England. And so much of government and military structure is taken from the French. Losers don't have that much influence on history.
At least France has maintained their own nuclear deterrent and weapons industry instead of licking our boots. They’re certainly not going to jump off a cliff like the rest of the NATO Lemmings. France’s intentions are clear. They are going to act first and foremost in the interests of France. And they did have hurt feelings at not being invited to sit at the head table, especially after Roosevelt insisted China be given a seat with him, Churchill and Stalin.
They helped us win the Revolution. How much of that help was in the interest of Liberty and how much was because we were fighting their sworn enemy is debatable.
After WW2 both France and England tried to salvage some vestiges of their colonial empires. By the time the US was drawn in, there was only one unconquered colonial power standing, England. Churchill talked a good game about freeing continental Europe but he wanted to postpone D-Day until the entire Mediterranean and Middle East were secured. I’m sure France, Poland and the Netherlands would have pushed for a cross Channel invasion in 1942 but they weren’t consulted or available for comments.
I’ve spent sometime in France. Maybe because I’m American, or just obnoxious, but I found the general population to be far less than friendly, to the point of rudeness. Now I know I have that affect on women in general but the prickly attitude was extraordinary, even for me.
I'm not sure I'd pull that thread. The French before they were the modern country won almost every war they were in for about 700 years. They took it to the British in the American revolutionary war. The Revolutionary war would never have happened without the French support. What has the USA won? The American civil war doesn't count. WWI the USA was not a huge deciding factor. Sure we beat up Mexico in 1848. Our biggest victory was of course against Imperial Japan in WW2, and I'd like to think we were a deciding factor against Nazi Germany. Outside of that, what have we won?Quote:
Originally Posted by gc45
Might not be a valid measure of comparison considering our record since the end of WWII.Quote:
Originally Posted by gc45
I think that France is about the only major country that the US has never gone to war with.
French and Indian War.... North Africa, the 101st Jumped into their defenses behind the beaches. Killed many of them until our Paratroop commander made them an offer: "Fight with us, not against us." They slung their rifles and crossed the lines.
We destroyed the French Med fleet by naval gun fire, trapped in port. They refused to surrender, the fight did not last long as they were at anchor.
Had French fighter pilots in England and OSS agents that went back into France. Of course the Resistance fighters in France are famous. LeClerke was their most famous armor commander, led the tanks into Paris.
I trained with the FFL while I was in the 101st Airborne Division, their major membership restriction is no French Citizens, and Americans are heavily restricted because of loss of US Citizenship, service in a foreign army. So without special authorization, we also are not allowed, but I know a few Americans with FFL service and they wear the FFL Torch pin proudly. The FFL had many Germans, Spanish and Iron Curtin Country x-pats seving.
Mali? They might as well have assaulted the Blessed Sisters of the Nazarene. [smilie=l:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE
As I recall, the UNITED STATES wasn't involved in that one. It was Great Britain and France. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapier
..
Desert Storm. Sort of. The politicians pulled us out before it was really won, or we wouldn't have had to go back for much of the next 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by megasupermagnum
No, you are right. The Gulf War was a win for the USA. It gets forgotten too often due to what happens after 2001. Just goes to show wins and losses aren't everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrounge
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerd
The French helped us win our Revolution. We bailed them out in two world wars. I figure we should be even.
At the end of WW2 the US made it clear we weren’t going to support colonialism, but backpedaled on that in SE Asia to help the French hang on to Vietnam. WW2 left France so devastated they had to use the defeated Japanese army, that had overran French Indochina, to control these territories.
The US also engaged in a form of benevolent colonialism ourselves to stop the communists from taking over the Philippines. War truly makes for strange bedfellows.
The Normans were Norse - second generation from settling in France. Yes, they adopted the language, but that doesn't make them exactly French.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown
The French-Indian War was only a sub part of the Seven Years War. There were 15 European countries involved(Russia switched sides during it), 10 Asian countries, 4 South American countries, plus 19 North American colonies/tribes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerd
Took a couple of peace treaties to end it.
I think his point was that this happened in 1753 to 1763. It ended more than 10 years before the USA was even a country.Quote:
Originally Posted by perotter
The Northmen settled and integrated with the native peoples of northern Kingdom of Francia. Normandy wasn't just a piece land occupied only by Vikings. I think when people decide to move and live elsewhere then that is what they are regardless of their ancestry. The Normans were not exactly French because they were their own duchy but their culture, language and religion was very French by the time they conquered England. At one time the Franks were just a German tribe that conquered Gaul that pushed out the Celts of that region. It gets convoluted when you look at how the diaspora of the Germanic tribes conquered all the former Celtic lands. I think the argument can be made that Normandy was not France but they were a French duchy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Smith
THe assistance they provided wasnt particularly of the greatest.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown
A few warships, notably The Bonhomme Richard, sold because it was already past its useful life span and was slated to be sent to the ship breakers. Sold to americans to save the cost of unloading it. Cannons so old and unsafe that many actually explored during the famous fight.
Muskets that were completely outdated and were actually consigned to the scrap bin when the french and indian war ended.
Do not forget that once america had gotten rid of the british, the french started a naval war with the USA in an attempt to force it under french colonial rule.
The french military in ww1 is not something to waft poetic about.Quote:
Originally Posted by waksupi
However the only REAL military accomplishment of France after Napolean was deposed, was their victory of the Tripoli Pirates of north africa.