"20 lb" Cast Iron Do-It too small. Smelting 20-40 lb pot?

Found the little cast iron pot tapped out at 15 lbs - very nearly full, so not sure how anyone could get close to 20 lbs, but perhaps they can. I found it really difficult to even get skimming spoon(s) in the pot. There is an issue with one side of the pot having a wall substantially thinner than the other side (looks like it might be overly and unevenly aggressive grinding), but that's a separate thing.

Anyway, wanting to smelt 20 lb to likely 40 maximally at a time. I would imagine things like a 6 quart stockpot, cut propane tank, on that scale, would not be very useful at this scale of smelting - I imagine I'd have a very shallow pool subject to high oxidation due to the surface area. Any suggestions for a container at this level - at least a ballpark volume appropriate for say 30 lbs on avg.?

A cut off propane tank is an all time favorite for that.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

A cut off propane tank is an all time favorite for that.

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Thanks Ed. I'd thought it would be something like a skillet for this amount of lead, too shallow. I have a few tanks from old brewing days. Good to know, much appreciated.

The Harbor Freight Dutch ovens are also very popular.

There's been lots of lively discussion about what you're doing and a lot of helpful ideas too.

A big one is putting some sort of wind screen around the burner so all the heat goes straight into the pot and not up & around the sides.
You'll get much more mileage from your propane.

Don't make it too efficient though.
Then you'll get done faster, and not have an excuse for not doing some sort of real work.:bigsmyl2:

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Originally Posted by imashooter2

The Harbor Freight Dutch ovens are also very popular.

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You can get enough lead in a 14 inch dutch oven that a normal human can't lift it.

I don't know whether to consider this a suggestion or a question, however I've always thought that an empty fire extinguisher would work, but I've never tried it, although I have ways to easily cut it to the necessary height and drill the two holes for the handle_
each opinion is welcome, of course.

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Originally Posted by wilecoyote

I've always thought that an empty fire extinguisher would work,

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If it's steel- sure it'll work.

I made a Lead filled sledge hammer out of one once.
In a trade, my tire shop guy me a thousand pounds or more of old school wheel weights when he wanted to clean shop,
and Lead was paying less than 9 cents a pound--- if it was cleaned up.

He worked on tires for the big earth movers, and store bought sledge hammers
were not heavy enough to break down the bead on most of them.

In exchange for the wheel weights, I poured a fire extinguisher body with Lead,
and cast the handle for a floor jack in it. I think it weighed about 65 pounds, maybe more.
His guys really liked it.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

If it's steel- sure it'll work.

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WingerEd, I'm glad I got a competent answer and made a sensible suggestion.
that's all I need ! :drinks:

I made a small one hand sledgehammer out of a pineapple can and a piece of gas pipe with a bolt through it. About 20 pounds, When it got messed up, just re melted and put in another can.

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Originally Posted by wilecoyote

WingerEd, I'm glad I got a competent answer and made a sensible suggestion.
that's all I need ! :drinks:

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You're more than welcome........... After you get your pot up and going- you'll be qualified to teach this class.:bigsmyl2:

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Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack

You can get enough lead in a 14 inch dutch oven that a normal human can't lift it.

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Even the abnormal human has a bit of trouble. [smilie=l:

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Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack

You can get enough lead in a 14 inch dutch oven that a normal human can't lift it.

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That sounds like a lot.
I'd probably have to call Abby Normal to help with it.

Rough estimate (very rough), lead weighs about 23 pounds per quart. Given that, a two or three quart stainless steel pan would easily hold 30 pounds of liquid lead.

It is surprising just how much air space there is in a pot filled with the wild wheel weight. Almost always kind of disappointing just how much space the air and steel clips take up.

Robert

I like a lot of others use a Dutch oven. I don’t fill it to the limit and use a stainless soup ladle to fill my ingot molds. Before I started using the Dutch oven, I used a skillet that was at the limit I could pour without making a mess. Consider a ladle.

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Originally Posted by huntinlever

Found the little cast iron pot tapped out at 15 lbs - very nearly full, so not sure how anyone could get close to 20 lbs, but perhaps they can. I found it really difficult to even get skimming spoon(s) in the pot. There is an issue with one side of the pot having a wall substantially thinner than the other side (looks like it might be overly and unevenly aggressive grinding), but that's a separate thing.

Anyway, wanting to smelt 20 lb to likely 40 maximally at a time. I would imagine things like a 6 quart stockpot, cut propane tank, on that scale, would not be very useful at this scale of smelting - I imagine I'd have a very shallow pool subject to high oxidation due to the surface area. Any suggestions for a container at this level - at least a ballpark volume appropriate for say 30 lbs on avg.?

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LOTS of good replies to your query! I will like to add what I consider a MOST important addition: That which holds up the pot. Years back a plumber/shooter decided to melt the boxes of lead pieces he had thrown in shop's back area and used a cut-off Freon tank setting on a single-burner propane stove -- an el cheapo fueled by a Bar-b-Que grill sized tank. He had the pot about three-quarters full and -- by the grace of God -- had walked to retrieve more lead to add to it when one of the pot's legs buckled and melted lead was dumped! He was not hurt -- and brought pictures to club sharing this with other shooters. I know I changed my burner support to three fire-bricks under my burner!
PLEASE make sure -- whatever you use to melt your lead -- what's underneath the pot will not give way!
geo

I have used a cut off freon tank, stainless steel stock pot and cast iron Dutch oven. The Dutch oven is by far my favorite.

As mentioned, make sure a fire extinguisher is steel. A lot of them are aluminum.

The dutch ovens work well, but you dont want to start out full bore heat with them. You need to start at a lower setting and warm them up a bit as you go. Cast Iron dosnt take to expansion well and will crack. The cut off propane tank being rolled steel dosnt have this issue.

My cut off propane pot holds roughly 140 lbs of lead and the rounded bottom allows it to be ladled down to about 3-4 lbs.

If you decide to go the propane tank route:

1) BE SAFE MAKE SURE ALL GAS IS OUT OF THE TANK. WASH IT OUT SEVERAL TIMES AND USE A SAW OR NON SPARKING METHOD. NO GRINDERS OR TORCHES.
2) a wrap of wide tape laid smooth gives a good straight line to cut along.
3) once you have a tank cut off cut a ring 4" or so wide this you weld to the bottom of your pot it makes a new base that more stable than the small ring. it will also double as a wind screen. Before cutting it off cut a series of 1 1/2" holes with a hole saw evenly spaced around the ring on 1 side these make vents allowing the heat to flow,
4) Deburr all edges for safety reasons. A neat edge is to form a 1/4" or 3/8" rod around the top of the pot and weld it on, this makes a nice rounded edge
5) This pot will hold 140 lbs of lead or more depending on where you cut the tank. build you stand to holds this when hot.

I just fill them with water ,and leave the hose running until they are cut ......you may near a few pops and such,but nothing much can happen in a small volume...........I see lots of the big propane tanks cut round here to make crab cookers,and knowing the guys with them,Im sure they took zero precautions.

The propane tanks I cut, I first filled with fine sand.

Alright, thanks for all the help guys. Still debating whether I just want to shop to do it. I've burned more than 9 lives already and if another accident doesn't do me in, my wife might. Nevertheless, I've bled the tank including valve-down and finally, burned off all I can. Not sure what you call it - the spring action "plunger" pin on the outlet of the valve so the cylinder only bleeds with the pin depressed or a regulator connected to the cylinder - how do you deal with that, if you want to water or otherwise purge the tank? Is the only way to do this to carefully unscrew and remove the entire valve assembly at this point?

I always removed the entire valve assembly.

Thanks Greg, I got it. Hack-sawed the handles off, then it took some doing but I was able to remove the valve. The overfill float broke off inside, but I don't think that's a big deal. Upside down overnight, will flush with soapy then clear water several times, and I presume we're good to go.

careful with soapy water, too: welding motorcycle tanks, this gave rise to gas bubbles prone to ignite. I don't know if this also applies to propane, but some welders were rather reluctant to work on bike tanks for this reason

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Originally Posted by wilecoyote

careful with soapy water, too: welding motorcycle tanks, this gave rise to gas bubbles prone to ignite. I don't know if this also applies to propane, but some welders were rather reluctant to work on bike tanks for this reason

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OK, thanks. I actually got that off a welding site but sounds like prudence says just use clear water. I think I'll go with packing it with dry ice too.

Thanks all. Oh - just curious, where do you guys tend to do your cut, i.e., how tall do you leave your cylinder/pot? And any estimates on how many pounds alloy you tend to smelt accordingly?

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Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE

I always removed the entire valve assembly.

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^^this.
I've run a air hose in them for awhile too, and just let it blow.

I did mine in the spring. Removed the valve and washed it out with dawn dish soap good squirted a little dawn in swirled it around stuck a funnel in the hole And sat it under one of the down spouts on the eaves for a week or two. After 3 or four good rains I emptied it stuck an air hose in it and clamped to a post. cut around the tape with a hacksaw.

I cut mine around 2" above the bottom radius With the domed bottom this holds close to 140 lbs of lead. I then laid out the 1 1/2"ho;es around the tank and cut them with a hole saw. I cut this ring of on the center line of the holes. I cut the original base off and welded the ring on half holes up. This gives a full dia base to sit on. I then tacked a length of 1/4" round stock to the top pf the pot edge and formed it around the top I tacked it every couple inches inside and out.
I use a modified weed burner for the heat source its 500,000 and is able to melt a pot full of lead in 20 mins.

The stand can be a reinforced turkey frier stand. Or built up on the new base ring and pot with 1/4" x 2" flat stock for the legs and 1/4" x 1" flat stock for braces between the legs, A nice touch is feet pads on the legs with leveling screws.

Minor thread theft here but....

just last week I spent a bit over $10K for a new 300 foot 4" well with a 1 HP submersible pump and now I find myself looking at a nice big 15" diameter bladder tank with a 5" skirt supporting the base from my old 2' well. I doubt the wall material is as thick as a propane tank but I find myself wondering why wouldn't it work as a scrap lead smelting pot. Thoughts???????????????

OK guys, outside of an extra measure of dry ice, I think we're good. Thanks for the help. The stand I have is from Webrestaurant store - https://www.webstaurantstore.com/bac...waAov7EALw_wcB

-and I stood on it. 230 lbs, felt totally solid, so I'm hopeful. In terms of the cut, what do you think about doing it right at the weld seam? (Don't know if it's standard, on mine, it's exactly midway at 7" (14" OAL from bottom of foot-frame to top of valve coupler).

Lot of guys use the propane tank but ive used a cheap WalMart stainless pot for several years.

Keep in mind the heat factor as the stand gets hotter it gets weaker.

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Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE

I always removed the entire valve assembly.

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Yes. Just unscrew with a pipe wrench and fill with water to overflowing then sit overnight.

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Originally Posted by jonp

Yes. Just unscrew with a pipe wrench and fill with water to overflowing then sit overnight.

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Yep, I had to hacksaw the top frame off to get at the valve and it took some pretty harrowing hammering to unfreeze the valve, but eventually I was able to remove it. I left it out valve-side down overnight, filled it several times with water (and allowed about an hour with bleach and water one time - not too long, for the corrosive effect on s/s...but it's now odorless), rinsed several times more and I'm going to run dry ice in it overnight tonight. Knock on wood...

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Originally Posted by country gent

Keep in mind the heat factor as the stand gets hotter it gets weaker.

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I overbuilt the crap out of a 20 gallon, tri-vessel brewing system out of 2 x 2 mild steel, no coating. Not that that's any comparison, but I was blown away by how strong this thing was:

Attachment 307770

-any thoughts on the specific stand? Given I'm 230 (even bounced up and down on it), anyone have thoughts on the relative strength of a fully-fired stand with the pot and 40 lbs. lead?

Consider using the left over piece to make an apron around the propane burner to direct more heat to the pot and shield it from wind.

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Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE

Consider using the left over piece to make an apron around the propane burner to direct more heat to the pot and shield it from wind.

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Good idea, thanks.

I use a Dutch oven but may look into a propane tank cut in half once I get more WW built up for a bigger melt.

My cut off propane tank handles 200 pounds with room to spare at the top.

Filling a tank with water once should be sufficient to eliminate any explosion risk. But whatever calms the nerves is best, often find a sticky layer of mercaptan the stinky stuff on the bottom of the tank.