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I purchased 1,000 pieces of .45 ACP brass to keep myself busy reloading this winter. I tumbled them and when taking them out of the tumbler noted the following headstamps on the first 100 cases:
CBC, FEDERAL, PERFECTA, S&B, R-P, WINCHESTER, AGUILA, REM-UMC, F(?)A USA, A USA,.F.C., MIDWAY, WCC 42, HRTRS, SPEER, X-TREME, *---* (Starline), ECS 42, WCC 94, HPR.
Almost a collection! The ECS 4 2 is brass, not steel.
900 to inspect still. I'll add to the list if there are more headstamps.
DG
Some days the sorting is more fun than the actual loading, though there is that anxiety over getting 47 pieces of a particular "good" box of brass.
Isn't that the truth! I like things to come out even-- like a whole box! :D The odd leftovers are the first to be fired off.
DG
How many small primers vs large primers?
--Wag--
Did you get any of the old FA (Frankford Arsenal) military that take the odd size primer?
No FA yet. So far, all large primers. I do have a couple of loaded FA .45 ACP cartridges--did not know that about the primer size.
DG
I went to a gunshow back in the 1990's and bought two gallon sized bags of 45ACP at a great price.Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
Got home and found they took a "meduim" sized primer.
this is an accurate GIF of that day....
https://i.imgur.com/KJe2XQj.gif
Some more, out of the next batch of 250 cases:
PMC, Blazer, Fiocchi USA, WCC 70, A USA, MAXXT *** (three little letters, to small to make out even with magnifying glass!), WCC 84 MATCH, PROGRADE, FA 32. Zounds! You're right-- I can see that the primer in the FA is a bit smaller than the rest.
Some of these headstamps I've never heard of.
DG
I have some somewhere around here with almost 30 different head stamps, when I find them, I'll list.
ECS 42 cases as noted are steel.
They were loaded by Evansville Chrysler- Sunbeam. I'd cull them out and not reload them being steel.
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...to-cartridges/
What does everyone consider the most "desirable" headstamp for 45 ACP brass? Or does it even matter?
Addressing several previous posts questions and statements:
I don't know if there is a best, but some are not so good as others. For example, there was American brass back in the '70s and '80s. Everyone had trouble getting them to reload well...the brass seemed thin. Some guys would just sort them out and trash them. I'd put Winchester and Starline up near the top.
Yes, the ECS cases were steel, but apparently they made some brass also as I'm looking at one. First I can recall seeing. I've got 4 or 5 boxes of the steel cases (original--unfired) and they used to be very common, but are now somewhat sought by military collectors. Back when I was just starting in the reloading hobby I was told by several people not to attempt to reload them as they'd wear out your reloading dies. I didn't, for several years, but eventually couldn't resist trying. It worked out fine, but after two reloadings I trashed them because they formed rust inside the cases. Also, after two reloadings the mouth of some of the cases would split. However, the information about the dies wearing out did not seem to be true in actual practice, and the economics of it was that were it true one could load a lot of ammo before having to replace the dies and be economically ahead. I think the same holds true today. One or two boxes of .45 ACP ammo at retail prices exceeds the cost of a die set.
I wonder how I've been able to reload .45 ACP off and on for about 56 years and never heard about the different sized FA primers? When I said that I've got a couple of loaded, unfired ones I should have stated that they're in the nature of collector cartridges, quite old and tarnished. I think the head stamps are very early, maybe 1916 as I recall. Looking at this one specimen, 1932 that I've found makes me wonder if perhaps a small pistol primer would work? Anyway, I'll just put it in the jar of curiosities in my shop, unless someone would like to have it (free) for their collection.
DG
I used to buy PMC mil-surp .45 ACP ammo back when it was advertised from South Korea (might still be made there, I don't know). Both the loaded ammo and the brass were very high quality - I probably still have some laying around.
Der,
A small pistol primer is too small for the Frankford Arsenal cases. Several companies made primer pocket reamers just specifically to convert the cases from FA spec to standard large pistol size. From where I'm sitting I can see an old Lyman primer pocket reamer with the wooden handle and a Wilson reamer. Put the case in the Wilson holder (for the old trimmer system they and C-H had/have) and replace the trimmer with the crank handle with the HAND turned primer pocket reaming tool. After 20 cases I had blisters on my fingers, but I've shot those cases multiple times in my BH. Good brass, but a pain to ream the primer pocket, at least with the tools I have. I had a large supply of those cases years ago, but eventually gave them to a collector. Saved enough just to play around with and will set up and re-cut the primer pockets on about 5 at a time so I don't repeat the blistered fingers mistake again.
:-D I've had mine for awhile....the price tag says $2.50!
Attachment 307540
DG
PMC -- I used to handle their ammo line when I was a dealer in the '80s. I'm not up on their recent history, but I think the name of the original S. Korean company was something like Poonsang Metal Manufacturing Co. When their ammo became popular it was sold by distributor in Nevada that called themselves the Patton and Morgan Co. For awhile they advertised that PMC meant Perfect Metallic Cartridge. I still have several boxes left of calibers I don't use. It was, and probably still is, good ammo. Their original big sellers were the Korean War standards like .45 ACP, .30-06, and M1 Carbine. Since they got the specs. from the U.S. and were the supplier for the S. Korean Army, the ammo was pretty good stuff and just about exactly like our production. I fired lots of the '06 ammo in my M1s, FMJ. Supposedly they originally got their brass by harvesting U.S. artillery shells left in the field. Just trivia......:D
Yup. That’s what I remember. I bought their ammo in the late ‘70’s from a distributor in Conroe, Texas. I seem to recall the 45 ball was ridiculously cheap, like $3-$4 per box of 50. Even a poor college kid was able to afford that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
Today's progress report: 13 boxes tumbled and ready to de-prime and resize. That should leave 7 boxes yet to process (in the tumbler) but it looks like it will come up short of 1,000.
Newly noted head stamps are: WMA 17*, GFL, Super Vel**, MAXTech**, LAX**, GECO**, COR-BON**, SIG**, FC 71 MATCH**
*I'll have to look this one up. It's definitely WMA, not WRA or WCC, so must date to WW I.
** Only once case of each of these so far. Hmmm....I thought LAX was an airport...!
Attachment 307660 Attachment 307661
So far only one outright cull-- looks like it was a bad jam!
Attachment 307663
DG
A few years ago was sorting out 38 Spec. Mostly just to get brass and nickel separate, Ended up with 35 different headstamps. Kind of interesting BUT dumb. Did end up finding a whole box of large primer 38 Spec. GW
Der,
The glue finally gave way on my price tag and it fell off, but I distinctly remember that it was under $3.00. I saved the plastic case it came in, but took the tool out, drilled a small hole in the handle, and hung it on the shelves on one of my loading benches. As I was going through my 45 ACP brass that had the FA mixed in, if I found one I could deprime and ream the primer pocket right then.
G W Wade,
I still have 2 boxes of nickel 357 magnum large primer Peters brass. Kinda neat just to have sitting around.
Here are a couple I scrounged out of the ever-present cigar box of random cartridges at a gun show. Good shootin' ammo for four bits per round!
Attachment 308030Attachment 308031
I'm not a bona fide collector, but I wouldn't shoot them. They belong in a collection. I've never seen a .45 ACP with a deep groove around the case like those.
An update-- I finished sorting all of the "1,000" cases. There were only 850, plus one each .45 Colt., .44 Mag., .45 GAP, and one 9mm.
As discussed earlier in the thread, I found a few FA cases dated 28, 31, 33, 39, 43. Four appear to have large pistol primers, so I guess they were reamed. I'll find out when I seat new primers.
I'll post some photos as the reloading takes place, as I intend to use several bullets and loads.
Great project for snowy days.
DG
WMA - Winchester Military Ammunition
https://winchestermilitary.com/
Thanks. Good info.
DG
I was just kidding; I don't plan on shooting them. They're pretty common, but they are nice specimens. Somewhere I have about a hundred of them, WWI GI ball, tinned FMJ. I have a few as early as 1912.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
I have shot several of them. Several years I picked out seven of the worst with tarnished cases, all Winchester 1917. They all shot like new ammo. I even sent one across the chronograph, 800 fps.
Attachment 308057
If I was a Bullseye/PPC competitor, I might prefer Federal Match brass, but I'm not sure it would matter. At my current level of skill, the head stamp of brass I use is by no means critical.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeck22
I'D WAGER that keeping the same head stamps together is a bigger contributor to accuracy, than which particular head stamp of brass. If you load the same propellant/bullet/primer/O.A.L. combination in Federal, WCC, Remington and Starline cases, then fire them through a rest, you will probably get much the same group sizes, but each may have different points of impact.
Mix brass with different head stamps together, and you will likely get a mix of points of impact.
Sorted, tumbled, deprimed with Lee Undersized Carbide Sizing Die. Never used one before, always used a standard sizer. But--there might be a grain of truth in their advertising blurb that says using the undersized die squeezes them right down to the bottom of the case just above the extractor groove and allows for flawless functioning in pistols of different makes and maybe slightly different chamber specs. We'll see. For starters, 21 each x-treme and A USA cases. X-treme loaded with Hunter Supply 230 gr. CLRN and 5.5 gr. W 231. A USA cases loaded with Berry's plated 230 gr. RN, 6.1 gr. W 231. CCI LP primers. Loads from Speer #14, max. minus 1/10th gr. All seem to feed nicely through the pictured 1911, an Essex slide/Essex frame/Heinz 57 small parts.
Attachment 308227
DG
I have always liked Starline, Winchester and Federal. Remington and some of the other brands seemed to have thin rims that warped easily. Most military brass is good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeck22
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I pick up enough 45 ACP brass that I sort it by headstamp.
It probably doesn`t make any difference if you mix them up.
I`m just anal that way.
Don’t poo poo that small primer .45acp brass even thought they are a pita to be reloading 45s and one jams up the works. They can use sp primers and sr primers. In these desperate times its good to have some options. I fit a 45acp cylinder to one of my vaqueros just for the option to use spp brass and save my lpp’s for 45colt brass.
Back in the 90’s when I was shooting ~500 rounds a week through a S&W 625 my dad came across a guy selling nickel plated FA42 “high pressure test” brass. Between my dad, Hatch and myself we purchased 15K of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
The first thing we noted was difficulty repriming the cases with Winchester primers which at the time was the brand we used for our 45 ACP load. Research of SAAMI specs indicated the allowable difference between maximum LP primer diameter (.212) vs. minimum LP primer pocket diameter (.2085) to be .0035 which to me is a astonishing large tolerance. Further research discovered that the Winchester LP primers on hand were very close to maximum diameter specification while the Remington LP primers on hand were closer to the minimum diameter specification.
Long story short I use Remington primers without issue. Speaking directly to the quality of the FA42 brass - I am still reloading 99% of the 5000 cases that I originally loaded. These cases have been reloaded so many times the nickel plating is all but gone.
Rob