Two Witnesses

Have you ever looked at Jesus saying to let things be established by two or three witnesses and applied it to events in scripture?

It's a study I started once upon a time and got side tracked by life.
Thought I'd ask and see how far anyone had carried it.
Pairs that occurred to me included Sodom and Gomorrah, Israel and Judah, Lot's daughters, the son of perdition and false prophet, the angels accompanying the Lord in Abraham's camp, the two pillars of the temple, right on through the bible to the two witnesses at the end.

No. Just his will be done.

google House of Yawhey
H/D

HD,
About letting things be established by two or three witnesses?

Another "two" that I'd looked at were the two pillars Samson was chained to and that got me looking into the archaeology of Canaanite / Philistine temples.

Reading Revelation 11, sounds like quite a party when the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem.

Ah ha, a study involving the two witnesses. Will be interesting to see what's said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaVtpT8V6k&t=230s

I thought this was interesting…

https://youtu.be/fE81HrKxHoo

Big subject; don't start the Book at the end.
The first "Two Witnesses" is covenant law
and here it is in context KJV

Deuteronomy 17:2

2If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. 6At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. 7The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.
Amen

Thank You Jesus! for fulfilling the Law and showing us a better way.
We still have to put away evil, though.

Have you ever looked at Jesus saying to let things be established by two or three witnesses and applied it to events in scripture?


I guess I don't know were in scripture Jesus said this. I'm familiar with the Deuteronomy passage, and I think I understand it's importance. Two or three witness's lent more truth, especially in a time when folks were VERY connected and known to be honorable -- or not. Verse 8 also offers a "fail safe" clause for matters which are not as clear to go to a higher court.

jd

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markopolo

I thought this was interesting…

https://youtu.be/fE81HrKxHoo

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Yes - Very interesting - Thanks for posting it

Jesus said it, I believe it.

Matthew 18

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Amen

God's Power is Coming
God's Power was here, is here, will be here forever!
Same goes for His Love and Wrath!
He is a Big God.

1:17 video, well done, 1st person, refers to the Prophesies, olive trees and all.
Over and over the Bible points forward to this.
Two witnesses to judge.

Here is the King James of Revelation 11

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The Witnesses Killed and Raised

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Amen

While we are waiting there is a great work to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markopolo

I thought this was interesting…

https://youtu.be/fE81HrKxHoo

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Iwatched it, and it's just more evidence that the scriptures can be twisted and convoluted to prove nearly any theory one can come up with!

We see what we want to see.
Studying the Word of God is good.
Tracking down Koine words is a great study.
The Bible is not a buffet, to pick and choose, it is a Thanksgiving dinner.

What I would like to know is
what does the New Evangelism look like?

We have been taught not to ask.
We do not like to be preached at, judged, told to conform or else.
Are you going to heaven? Good question, but I can't answer for you.
I can only have a ready answer for my faith.
The woke won this round, we are going to have our turn now.
We have a lot of us and very few of them.
Youtube seems a poor replacement for a Wednesday night gathering of prayer.
Your local church brought to you by Oreos ads?

We have been sold. It's time to stop buying.

In the video, he went off the rails at 32 minutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by .429&H110

What I would like to know is
what does the New Evangelism look like?

I think New Evangelism looks a lot like the Old Evangelism... Take for example the original 7 churches that even got an honorable mention in chapters 2 and 3 of the book of Revelation (these were actually 7 phyiscal churches and not some Dispensationalism garbage)... The had both positive and negative critique from the LORD. For example

Ephesus They lost their first love - Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Smyrna They were dealing with problems and blasphemy's of the Jews - Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Pergamum - They apparently had some issues with Balaam worship, idolatry and fornication in the church Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Thyatira - They also seem to have had some problems with Idolatry and fornication with in the church Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Sardis They seemed to have their act together more then the aforementioned churches - Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Philadelphia They seem also to have had a decent report and were resisting the Judaizers and will be rewarded for doing so. - Revelation 3:8-9 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Laodicea - This church became lukewarm and apparently were just playing church. Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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There are multitudes of great churches in this country and some middle of the road churches and some bad churches, A person might say not different then the churches of yesteryear.
I think the reach advantage that the New Evangelism has is technology... not that it makes folks smarter as much as it gives them exposure to possibly different views then they might have gotten on Wednesday and Sundays only.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Good Cheer

In the video, he went off the rails at 32 minutes.

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God bless you for making it to 32 minutes in.
I thought he went off the rails early on when he said Jesus just went for a walk up on a mountain and happened to run in to Moses and Elijah

He was doing pretty good until then.

Was studying about "two witnesses" today and it took me down a trail to Lot's daughters, which ended up with me reading Luke 17 where Jesus makes reference to two examples, one in Noah's day and the other when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. I didn't remember that Sodom and Gomorrah were in that passage in Luke. Which tells me I need to spend more time in the word.

About Sodom and Gomorrah, anybody see the scientists saying the destruction was by an airburst reaching about 3000C temperature?

Joshua chapter 2: 1-24

The Two spies that were sent in to Jericho deserve an honorable mention.

When the layers of the book of Joshua are Peeled back, it is easy to see end times stuff

True Alabama.
That characteristic prophetic foreshadowing present in books of the bible is an amazing testimony to the hand of God guiding in detail the events of this reality we live within.

Deuteronomy 17:6 is about "court proceedings" as it were, it has nothing to do with the two witnesses in Rev.
In Mark 9:4 it's pretty plain that Moses and Elijah spoke with Jesus after He was transfigured.
One school of thought is that the two witnesses spoke of in Rev. will be Moses and Elijiah, another school of thought thinks that it will be Elijiah and Enoch, (Enoch in Genisis 5:24, not the Enoch of the book of Enoch).
In Hebrews 9:27 it says that man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgement.
In Deuteronomy 34:5>7 we have the death of Moses and his burial by God, Moses had his death.
Both Elijiah and Enoch have not seen death, they were both "taken-up".
Now, one can argue and say. "what about those who had died and were resurrected/brought back to life"?
Jesus resurrected people, (so did Elijiah and Peter, God doing the resurrecting using them as His instruments).
So, I would guess that those who were resurrected faced a human death a second time?
Maybe, maybe not, we do know that those who were resurrected were ones who had only been dead a very short time, it's not like they had spent months or years in the grave.
Anyway, we're not told how things worked out for them, If God thought we NEEDED to know He would have told us,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoodat

Have you ever looked at Jesus saying to let things be established by two or three witnesses and applied it to events in scripture?


I guess I don't know were in scripture Jesus said this. I'm familiar with the Deuteronomy passage, and I think I understand it's importance. Two or three witness's lent more truth, especially in a time when folks were VERY connected and known to be honorable -- or not. Verse 8 also offers a "fail safe" clause for matters which are not as clear to go to a higher court.

jd

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You are correct sir. Jesus maintained the requirement but was not the individual recorded as saying it.
Whether He is the being who authored it is quite another matter. In my mind He is.