I guess I am gonna be one of the first in line again.
LEE SIX STATION PROGRESSIVE PRESS
https://leeprecision.com/images/P/91918.jpg https://leeprecision.com/images/D/91823-HRes.jpg
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I guess I am gonna be one of the first in line again.
LEE SIX STATION PROGRESSIVE PRESS
https://leeprecision.com/images/P/91918.jpg https://leeprecision.com/images/D/91823-HRes.jpg
Interesting!
The priming situation is a question. The new press reminds me of the Classic series and that is a solid platform as my Classic turret Press demonstrates.
My progressive is the LNL and five stations are good. But Lees “six” is better.
Three44s
I will watch with interest to see how this pans out. As I have stated repeatedly Lee has some really good ideas, but the execution is sometimes lacking.
This design is stronger than the loadmaster, the offset sizing station is pure genius.
Again, it all hinges on the priming. Lee are famous for making progressive presses that don't prime properly and selling a dedicated priming press instead of just making it work.
im not knocking Lee, I have, use and like their products.....but isnt it a little late to enter the progressive press market what are the 2 additional stations for??? Ive been using a 550 Dillon for a long time with only 4 stations ????
I find it very interesting that the press is made from steel, except the toolhead which is aluminium.
The last all steel press I know of was the Pro 2000 from RCBS.
Having a Mickey Mouse case feeder is not good. Hopefully they will have something suitable.
The weak area of most progressives is the priming system. It is so bad that in most machines that people end up priming off the machine. That is one area where Dillon eats their lunch. Every Dillon has a decent priming system.
After seeing the Lee APP press and how finicky it is, I'm not optimistic. (remembering my dad launching cases across the room...:o)
I have a lot of Lee stuff, big fan. But if its anything like the APP it's gonna need some tweaking/tuning before it will work.
From the picture, it looks like the primer slide runs past the shellplate carrier, with a channel bringing the primers in.
That, and no blast shield required indicates it's a re-worked priming system.
If this is a working progressive from Lee, there may be a few in my future.
Up until recently I was using Pro 1000s for all my reloading. I had four of them set up for different calibers. I was happy with everything except priming. Quite frankly the Lee priming system sucks. I still see no reason to change my opinion on that.
I would like to have the six stations but I like the priming system on the auto breech lock pro better than I did the pro 1000 or the load master so I will probably not be a customer for the new press.
But I do look forward to seeing how it performs :)
With the app I can size when I de-prime before cleaning and that gives me another station on a 4 station press for the cases I use the progressive for, works great for my process.
I can tell you that more than 5 stations can be extremely useful.....worth a little modding if it takes that to make it efficient and reliable. I decided I couldn't resist buying an RCBS seven station press, in spite of the bad press it got. ;) I've never been sorry. Just took a little tweaking and education and it works as smooth fast. At Lee's price point, it's probably worth a try, but I'd miss my station seven.
As for priming, I don't see what the problem is priming off press. I deprime on an APP and tumble and trim if rifle, before I load anyway.....just not important to me to do it all in one session on the progressive, even when I can.....and you can't, loading rifle unless you like trimming with the Dillon press trimmer and ear plugs. Doesn't look fun to me.
Most people do not shoot enough rifle ammunition to justify using a progressive press. In my case, I have owned a Green Machine, three 1050's, a 650, two 550's and two SD's as well as a Star in .38 Spl. I have never loaded a rifle round on a progressive. I may start loading .223 this year on the 550 but it will be "blasting ammo" for playing at longer ranges and for coyote hunting. I have never shot CF rifle competitively, or in a quantity where having a high production rate on rifle ammunition was warranted. By using the RCBS X die, I hope to avoid trimming cases on subsequent reloads so that chore will be eliminated. My goal is to tumble clean and reload without any off press operations.
Pistol ammunition is where progressives shine. Even when I shot Bullseye, ammunition coming off a Star was accurate enough. Getting extra clean cases/primer pockets was not worth the added time and work of having a process off the press. Tumbled cases went directly to the press. I am a lazy reloader...LOL.
Additional case prep is not for everyone. For those who prefer higher productivity, a reliable priming system is a necessity. Otherwise productivity is reduced by 50% or more. For many users productivity is a key driver. People do not add case feeders or bullet feeders to increase quality but to reduce manual operations and gain small increases in productivity. Seems counterintuitive to take a 50% hit by doing an operation "off press".
I know two guys who gave up on the first generation Lee progressive. The priming system was not adequate. They were both CAS shooters, so super accurate ammunition was not required. Having to deprime and manually prime every case was unacceptable. I had the same issue with the Green Machine. If I primed off the press it worked OK but it was no Star. I loaded about 2000 rounds on the GM before giving up.
The new Lee, or any other progressive, lacking a reliable priming system will have limited market success.
I hope Lee has their priming system down pat to go with this new press so as to reduce the need to prime off press.
That said, for folks who want to clean pockets and/or prime separately, a case feeder can still make sense. Within their method a case feeder is actually twice as important since each case is run twice to accomplish loading compared to a reloader running their cases just once to Finnish the operation.
Three44s
It looks to me that most of the above posts are concerned with the priming apparatus on this new press, what I would be concerned about is the primers being available to put in that machine.
Ken
I am a Lee fan, but over many years, I have learned to be patient and let the bugs get worked by the impulsive, guns, trucks, engines, software, hardware. After a year or two, I will probably get one. Dillon is on version C, so they are still tweaking. I have a 550 with the upgrades, a couple Lee 1000's and a Lee Loadmaster - they all work if you pay attention.
I have a LM, and yes the priming system on it sucked, so I ended up priming off press, then feeding primed cases to the shellholder under the powder drop manually, seating, crimping, and pulling the loaded round out the side, only using 3 stations, I'd probably be better off trading for a classic turret press for rimmed cases.
I use the collator for primed 45ACP cases but I doubt I would ever use all 6 of the stations.
I tried Lee's Auto Bench Prime when it came out, total waste of time. My right hand is hurting now, and getting some arthritis, I would LOVE a hand held primer with a foot operated ram.
Good point about the plastic bits and pieces. They usually are the problem on any press. Having spares and making the design such that they are easily replaced helps but it is still aggravating when you need to crank up a few hundred rounds in a hurry.
If the cost cutters would use MIM instead of plastic injection molded parts it might add $50 to the cost but be so much better. I wonder if making them out of a better material using 3D printing could enhance longevity?
I'm quite happy with my pro 1000, but I have to admit, if this goes on sale for $300 for just the press... I'm buying it. That's not much more than a new Pro 1000, and you are doubling the stations. It looks like a classic cast with a pro 1000 style system, which I love. I guess the only real drawback I see is that without the turret plates, it's going to take a few more minutes for a changeover unless you buy those breech lock bushings for all your dies.
I'm excited. Maybe with the rock solid classic cast linkage, bigger foot print, and a solid mount on the bench, it might not be that bad to prime on this press.
Late? Lee has been making progressives for something like 30 years, maybe longer.
I don't "need" 6 stations, but it sure is nice to have, and opens a lot of possibilities. Size/deprime, flare/powder, seat, crimp, 4 stations is a normal setup in an ideal world. Sometimes there are better ways. for example, now you can add an NOE expander plug before the flare/powder station. If you run a powder check die, that's another station. I like a visual check, but I'd love to have both the visual and a lockout die, and now I can. I'm not a fan of it, but some guys like to trim rifle cases on the press as well.
Basically you can load ammo with 4 stations, or even 3, but you are forced to make compromises to condense into that format. With 6 stations, you are much more free to choose your own way.
I don't know where you got your special edition all steel/aluminum 4 hole classic..but the one I bought had all plastic primer feeds, and the auto index collar was plastic with a steel rod..the rod wasn't the weak point..the plastic is/was.
Please post pics of your auto advance mechanism on your 4 hole that is 100% sterl/aluminum, and not a plastic collar clamped to the ram like all the others I've seen.
I'm on lee precision sight right now... The 90997 large and small safety primer feed system still looks 99.9% plastic.. And the classic 4 hole turret press (red)..just like I have, still shows a black plastic indexing collar that clamps to the ram. The index bar is metal..but the piece that strips is the black plastic collar. Looks unchanged to me.
The primer feed system could be made from metal easily. MEC made them out of mostly metal.
They absolutely have plastic :) and they may have some zinc on reloading presses just not the ones I have had.
They also sell plastic parts kits very cheap and the first individual parts that you add to your kart are free but you but pay shipping.
I always order the spare parts kits when I order a press so I have replacements if any thing was to break in the middle of a session . The only plastic parts I have had to replace were operator error :)
If Lee built presses just like Dillon they would probably cost as much , that is not Lee's market.
Glad we have both
No kidding. I understand that Dillon makes a fine press... but a 750 is $700. Lee ratchets last a long time as it is. if I have to replace them for $3 every couple years, so be it. If everything on a press was steel and aluminum, they would eat themselves alive. While brass is usually a better choice for longevity over plastic, the prices are not even close. One other great thing with plastic is that it does not need or benefit from lube. I'm ok with lube, but the less I have to oil a press the better. Plastic in the right places is just fine, especially if it is a part that has potential to be jammed and broken. I'm fine with sacrificial parts that are cheap.
Ultimately like everything, I think it comes down to two kinds of people. A third kind would be those that just want to be cheap, but they will never be happy with anything.
#1 Those who just want a turn-key deal to slam out ammo as fast as possible. Run it to failure, then have it fixed.
#2 Those with a mechanical mind, and won't loose sleep because they had to stop mid-run to change a part.
Obviously nobody want a piece of junk that doesn't stay together, but the lee Pro 1000 is a solid machine that will run if you just read the directions, and understand how it works. I expect nothing less of this Pro 6000. If you don't want to deal with that, and just want to mount a press, dies, and go, then I really doubt this press will do that.
I use two Lee APPs for de priming. I then use a RCBS or LEE bench mounted primer. I do what most of my younger shooting buddies call, “unnecessary, anal induced OCD,” because I want to keep my Dillons clean and most of my Turrets or SSs don’t have a decent depriming system. Only the LEEs do, IMHO. Cause I find the priming on anything but a 650xl or Pro2000 to be subpar. My problem for sure.
As for the new Pro 6000, if it’s half as good as the Pro 4000s it’s will be a hit! Nothing is ever to late to the party if it does the 80-90% of what machines that are twice the price do.
Lefty
A lot of people criticize the Lee primer feed on these presses and say how dangerous it is and a primer explosion will follow the run all the way up to and into the tray. Obviously these people have no idea of explosion dynamics! I don't know if Lee designed it that way or not but I would have to think they did. Otherwise it would have been just as easy to make a one piece tube feed. Notice that the feed tube is two piece and just snapped together. This feed tube goes into the primer cup at an angle. If the primer in the cup were to explode it may possibly cause the next one in line to go off but when that one goes off it is going to blow that tube wide open and scatter the rest of the primers before any explosive force can act on them. I simply cannot believe all these keyboard experts that do not see how this works! " Make the tube out of steel!" Have you seen the recent pics of the tube that exploded from bottom to top and did one hell of a job on the guys hands? THAT is what happens when you CONTAIN the primers and not let them out like the two piece plastic would do. On top of all of that, the priming system on the Lee press is on the opposite side from the operator so if it did go off the press is between you and the shrapnel.
Never heard about the "explosion" problem. Hell, I would have to get a primer in to the station before I could crush it and cause an explosion.
The guy he was referring to was carrying a tube of primers across a carpeted room not in the press sleeve either. Messed up his hands pretty good. Containment is the problem. That's why I ended up with stripped primers.....only 25 spaced primers not 100 stacked ones.
The Lee tray holds how many....but at least they're not contained.....which is good. I'm less scared of Lee's, than Dillon, Hornady, RCBS primer tubes. RCBS shoulda perfected the APS system instead of tossing it aside when Dillon and Hornady buyers took it personal. It was a good idea and it worked.
I am pretty sure the one I am referring to was in a press, it was in a thread on here. I will try to find it.
Found it, It was actually a link posted on Handloaders Bench forum.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...minder.299386/
Modern firearms use steel, aluminum, and plastic routinely. Cast iron presses are not made of gun materials. Dillon has never used cast iron to make their presses. Dillon abandoned their 650 priming system do to explosions.
Gavin, Thee Ultimate Reloaded on YouTube, reviewed both the Lee 1000 & Loadmaster. He commented he had no priming problems in both videos. Lee uses an alignment pin on the new 1000, 4000, and 6000 press to lock the shell plate in position during priming. It seems to work to align things for priming pretty well.
The plastic priming system has the benefit of lubricity and not being conductive. Notice that primer trays primers are sold in are plastic ? Notice Green & Orange primer flip trays are plastic ?
Notice Dillon makes a Zink alloy flip tray ?
Using modern materials is a paradigm shift from tradition. I think the Star & RCBS Green machines are all steel construction. You can find them.