Thoughts on Red Dot for Lever Gun 45-70

Hi,

I’ve finally acquired a lever gun in 45-70 (and 87/71) and I want to put a red dot on it. I’ve narrowed it down to the Aimpoint H2 Micro and the Deltapoint Pro.

I wondered if anyone has experience using the tube type vs. slimline types of red dots. The H2 sits high on the gun and looks chunky, but flip up rings seem like an advantage in the field. The Deltapoint is nice and slim, but no integrated way of covering the lens from the elements. I haven’t hunted with either, but it looks like the Deltapoint could give a nicer field of view and quicker target acquisition than the tube type H2, but advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance

I have an ultradot on my 45 colt marlin 1894. It is a tube type. I prefer the tube sights for hunting. For one, the lenses stay drier in rainy weather. The ultradot has an easy to use knob to control brightness. It can be adjusted very low for dusk and dawn. I have used the tv type red dots, and definitely like the tube sights better

I put a Burris FF3 on my Win 1886 using a Turnbull mount to see how it would shoot. It would shoot five shots into 1.3-1.7” at my camp rang of 114 yards. I shot one buck with it and then took it off. This attached group isn’t a “wallet group” from my 1886 45-70 with a red dot, it’s typical. I don’t think you’ll find a scope would do any better at this distance. IT’s certainly no handicap.

My 60yo eyes are not doing well. Red dots on every lever I own. Best thing I ever did. Either a TRS25 or a Romeo5

Scopes can offer more precision, finer detail.

Red Dot offers very quick target acquisition and in a hunting situation acceptable accuracy. (IMO)

I have rifles that I prefer scopes on, especially longer ranged, and targets at 100 yards or more.
Others have red dot sights and they would be my preference to hunt with,

Of all my rifles there are more Truglo 2x Red Dots than any other single brand or type.
They bring those longer shots in close, are a short tube type. With snap down covers for weather. And last I saw still under 70$.

Ohh,......Red Dot sight, not RD powder.

Ive used them both. I will always go with the Aimpoint H2 Micro over a DeltaPoint Pro for a rifle. It is a better option for the footprint. Also, the emitter and dot are closed to the weather. That is a much better option for a gun that will be carried hunting.

The DeltaPoint Pro works great, but is more geared to a handgun. I have had issues with the DeltaPoint failing on a 9MM CZ SP01 Shadow between 10K & 15K rounds. But that was with the Gen 1 DeltaPoint Pro. The last time they upgraded it to the Gen 2 electronics and it is still going strong.

the Burris fast fire sure did surprise me. very easy to get on target fast, compact and mine has never been knocked off zero. yet. ive tried it on handguns and a variety of rifles. but I've got a cheap tube type red dot on an AR and I like the 3x option of the tube type red dots for certain set ups like an AR. Ive also got a couple cheap red dot sight that looks like the Burris fast fire and they are completely worthless, will not hold a zero for more than one shot out of a 22. I was seriously thinking of ordering a 3x tube type, just last week and was doing some searching and it appears Leopold is no longer making the type I was thinking of so now I'm thinking of the Burris AR332. bottom line is from my experience you won't go wrong getting a Burris fast fire and it comes with a plastic cover that is just about as easy to remove or install as flipping a cap off a scope. my experience is to stick to the big name brands with proven track record of standing behind warranty it worth the extra expense in the long run.

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IME, the reflex sights are the fastest to use on game, but are not as unobtrusive as a receiver peep sight.

There are lens covers available in many different dimension, one of which would fit most tube-type red dot sights. ( I used flip-up lens covers - google)

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Originally Posted by farmbif

the Burris fast fire sure did surprise me. very easy to get on target fast, compact and mine has never been knocked off zero. yet. ive tried it on handguns and a variety of rifles. but I've got a cheap tube type red dot on an AR and I like the 3x option of the tube type red dots for certain set ups like an AR. Ive also got a couple cheap red dot sight that looks like the Burris fast fire and they are completely worthless, will not hold a zero for more than one shot out of a 22. I was seriously thinking of ordering a 3x tube type, just last week and was doing some searching and it appears Leopold is no longer making the type I was thinking of so now I'm thinking of the Burris AR332. bottom line is from my experience you won't go wrong getting a Burris fast fire and it comes with a plastic cover that is just about as easy to remove or install as flipping a cap off a scope. my experience is to stick to the big name brands with proven track record of standing behind warranty it worth the extra expense in the long run.

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I just bought this (two in a pack) cover for my Burris FF3. Crazy cheap price and good reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Plastic...ps%2C98&sr=8-1

Burris and vortex make prism sights that have the reticle etched in the prism. So when it's light out, you can use the lite up feature or not, and if battery goes dead, you still have cross hairs. I like them better than the reflex open dots and the battery required tube type.

I have a couple Burris Fastfires on AR .45 builds. Like them but my buds Romeo seems like a better idea, turns itself on and off whenever you pick up or set down the rifle. My other RD’s are the bigger Vortex. Never put a dot on a lever.

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Originally Posted by William Yanda

Ohh,......Red Dot sight, not RD powder.

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Me too!

I like a red dot for fast acquisition, it doesn’t really fit my use of a lever gun in 45-70.

After having played with red dots, I am a huge proponent of 1-4, 1-6, or even 1-8 scopes with illuminated reticles. They offer better, more predictable parallax and much more flexibility than any red dot out there. When set to 1x, it's your red dot. Above that, it's your scope. Now that there are super-compact models on the market, red dots really only fill the super-lightweight niche from my POV.

Thoughts? I think classy lever guns are made for iron sights and saddles. I think a scope on a classy lever gun makes my blood run cold. I think a red dot on a classy lever gun makes my blood freeze. But, my guns aren't your guns so do as you wish with my blessings; after all, it's no one's business but your's is it?

I would try a peep sight too.
Just as fast for me as a red dot less likely to get knocked off zero and won’t run out of battery.
Also does not loose the lines of a classic lever
My cent and a half


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I have a micro H2, and I love it and recomend it without reservation, however my choice for my levergun is a leupold 1.5-4.5x20. Perfect footprint and magnification for a levergun, almost as fast as a dot.
Very forgiving in terms of eye box as long as you don't have the magnification right maxed.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I have a micro H2, and I love it and recomend it without reservation, however my choice for my levergun is a leupold 1.5-4.5x20. Perfect footprint and magnification for a levergun, almost as fast as a dot.
Very forgiving in terms of eye box as long as you don't have the magnification right maxed.

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I have two of these with the illuminated reticle and I have to agree with you on your assessment. I’m about ready to get another one for one of my Encore barrels but haven’t decided yet which reticle to get yet. I have the Twilight Hunter now with the CDS dial but I’m thinking about the “Pig Plex” reticle for the .358max bbl.

Mine doesn't have the illuminated reticule but now you guys have me thinking I should try that out.

The Deltapoint is ok as a sight, but battery life is bad and the ergonomics for adjusting brightness suck.

The Holosuns have a good reputation for durability, and they have the option of a "solar failsafe" which keeps you in a useable reticle even after the considerable battery life winds down.

"Enclosed emitter" sights like the Holosun 509T or the Aimpoint Acro has glass on both ends and protect the dot's "projector" from the elements.

The pistol sights usually have 1-MOA adjustments for windage and elevation. That's probably OK for a brush thumper like your 71, but it may be on the coarse side. They also have dot sizes and reticles that are more in keeping with short range defensive pistol work, so keep that in mind. The rifle sights are usually equipped with 1/2 MOA clicks.

It's also worth doing some homework on how they mount. The Holosun 407/507/508 series USED TO come with a separate base plate that would allow you to mount them on a Picatinny rail, but since the primary intent on purchasing one is to bolt them to a purpose-milled pistol slide, they've discontinued it - - at least including them in the box anyway. Bummer. . .because after I put a 509 on my Glock, I was able to move my 507 to a Ruger MKII with no extra shopping involved.

A lot of the rifle sights are also set up for cowitnessing with AR-15 sights out of the box, and as such, sit pretty high. Again, do your research on mounts and make sure you have options to drop them down to where you can shoot without needing to use an "open-mouthed chin weld".

Been using a fast fire three on my 94 big bore for a but 8 years now works great not much bigger than a peep sight batterys last seems like for evener ,I for got to turn it off when the season closed it was on for a bout a month and still as bright as with new battery.

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Originally Posted by Tokarev

After having played with red dots, I am a huge proponent of 1-4, 1-6, or even 1-8 scopes with illuminated reticles. They offer better, more predictable parallax and much more flexibility than any red dot out there. When set to 1x, it's your red dot. Above that, it's your scope. Now that there are super-compact models on the market, red dots really only fill the super-lightweight niche from my POV.

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This is what I use on my levers that come ready for scope mounts, best of both worlds.
I am in the process of mounting reflex dots on some of mine that are not easily done such as a browning 92 using a dovetail mount rail where light weight is a priority, Holosuns and sig romeos are the best value for me.
I also prefer a green dot for all around use much better for me in bright daylight.
I dislike doing this on any lever gun, but when you cant see the sights in low light____ it is what it is.

The Aimpoint H2 micro with the standard mount that places the sight low on the receiver is the Cadillac of Red Dots and at $750 ish it should be. However I have 6 Bushnell TRS 25's that I paid between $65 and $90 for and they have served me well on all my Carbines and even on my Ruger Scout Rifle.

Red Dot Sights offer the fastest target acquisition of any sighting system, and it is up to you to develop a "Dot, Bang" mentality, so you aren't studying the sights and wasting time. As soon as the dot is on the target you pull the trigger! Dot, Bang!

If you watched the Series "Wild Boar Fever" on the Outdoor Channel you would have seen people using these same Aimpoint sights on various Rifles taking shots at Running Wild Boars in Europe, and connecting with "boaring" regularity.

You could try a TRS 25 on your .45-70 as see if you like it for <$90, and if you liked it, buy the Aimpoint later. Only problem with the Aimpoint is that you can buy 8 TRS 25's for the price of one Aimpoint. But the Aimpoint is a really nice optic and if your gun is really nice then it needs a nice optic. I don't know how the mount for it works on an 86/71, but if it was a Marlin you'd just bolt a strip of Pic Rail onto the top of the receiver and then attach the optic to it.

I was going to attach a Reflex Sight (Burris Fast Fire 3) to the barrel of my A5 Slug gun for Pig Hunting but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Hope this helps.

Randy

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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Red Dot Sights offer the fastest target acquisition of any sighting system

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True but most of them except for the most pricey models have parallax at any distance. Before one decides to spend $$ on a red dot, they should shift the look left/right and up/down, to see of the dot moves across the target. If it does, then the sight is not parallax-free no matter what the manufacturer's AD says. It directly translates into the loss of accuracy.
At the same time, scopes are parallax-free at a specified distance, usually of about 50 yards, or they have adjustable parallax.