Need opinion on RCBS/Ohaus Dial-O-Grain scales

So I am a reloading equipment junkie and I like nice stuff (when I can afford it). As such, over the years I have ended up with a couple of RCBS 304 Dial-O-Grain scales (made, of course, by Ohaus) and a couple of Ohaus 3100 Dial-O-Grains. In my opinion these models are the Rolls Royces of reloading beam scales and are a joy to use.
Here's my question; does anyone know if there is an inherent difference in reliability and/or accuracy between the two models due to the difference in their weighing capability? I am thinking of selling off a couple of them to reduce clutter and am not sure which ones to keep. My gut tells me to keep the two 3100s because of their higher capacity, but to be honest I don't usually weigh anything more than a single bullet or a powder charge and honestly don't see myself reloading for a GAU-8 any time soon.
Or would there be a good reason to keep just one of each model?
Interestingly enough, one of my Ohaus 3100's is the normal height of a RCBS 304 (like the first picture) but the other one (the second picture) has a taller mast that raises it up at least a couple of inches. It also has an correspondingly taller "hanger" for the pan. I like that because it brings the dial and beam up a little closer to eye level. It also has the chrome flat pan compared to the typical gold colored "bowl" pans that are usually included with these, and as a result it's much easier to reach in to add/remove a bullet (or other object) without disturbing things. For a long time I assumed this pan was one that someone had bought as a replacement for the original gold pan but then noticed both the pan and the hanger are stamped with serial numbers that match the scale itself.
Anyway, what do you guys think?

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I have one, I don't see a need to have several. Share the wealth, either sell and/or give them to someone special who will use one.

https://i.imgur.com/u8wa60q.jpg

I'm the kind of person who always has to have a spare of most things. Just trying to determine which two to sell.

I have one I would love to have repaired.

What's wrong with it, huntnman?

I would figure out which 304 and 3100 were the most accurate and pedal the other two.

I have a 304, it’s my “daily driver” and an Ohaus non-dial scale that does grams. I use the gram scale to weigh cattle medicine and also micronutrient applications for my wife’s garden and shrubs.

Three44s

i have one of the 304's

cadillac!

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Originally Posted by Three44s

I would figure out which 304 and 3100 were the most accurate and pedal the other two.

I have a 304, it’s my “daily driver” and an Ohaus non-dial scale that does grams. I use the gram scale to weigh cattle medicine and also micronutrient applications for my wife’s garden and shrubs.

Three44s

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What method would you use to determine accuracy on these if you didn't have a good set of check weights? Other than comparing consistency between scales.

you really should have check weights, but lacking that try match grade jacketed bullets, they are usually pretty good. But, you really should have check weights....

Proper reloading scales are usually plenty accurate for our needs (+/- .1 grain). What we need most from our chosen powder scale is absolute long term repeatability.

I have had several 304s, and wanted badly to be impressed with them. But they all had the same issue, which seems to be excessive damping. Depending on which way you approached zero, from bottom or top, you would get a different reading and it was sometime significant. Throw the same charge on the pan and it weighed differently every time. Nowhere near good enough for small handgun charges. I never got any of them to work as well as I needed them to do so they were all sold. I've got a 10-10 now that is quite good and can be trusted so it's my go to at this point.

Check weights are cheap. I'd use check weights (several) to determine if there is any accuracy difference between the scales.

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Originally Posted by Nobade

I have had several 304s, and wanted badly to be impressed with them. But they all had the same issue, which seems to be excessive damping. Depending on which way you approached zero, from bottom or top, you would get a different reading and it was sometime significant. Throw the same charge on the pan and it weighed differently every time. Nowhere near good enough for small handgun charges. I never got any of them to work as well as I needed them to do so they were all sold. I've got a 10-10 now that is quite good and can be trusted so it's my go to at this point.

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I concur with Nobade, I owned two 304s when they first came on the market. I sent both back because of being excessively dampened. As noted throw the same charge on the pan multiple times and the weight is never the same. Usually in the range of plus or minus one to two tenths.

I loved the concept but just not consistent enough.

The dial layout is different between the two, which one is quicker and easier to read? I have a tall 3100 and it seems to be spot on with my Lyman check weights. All six sets of reloading scales I have seem to be close enough for our purpose but most do vary slightly over the range. Next time I have my 3100 out I will check both ways to zero.

If you don't have a weight set find several bullets that cover most of the weight range and compare the results of all the scales in the house and pick the best. I would probably keep one of each myself.

The 3100 and 304 scales do seem like a good idea but could it be that they are a little complicated and a bit of overkill for our purpose? That said I still like having one, just because.

Well, I suppose the 304 would be easier to read because the dial is only used for tenths of a grain, while the dial on the 3100 is used for both ones and tenths. Perhaps they are overkill but like you I like having one (or two) "just because".

+ My scale is like many have previously stated giving different readings of the same charge. the same three grain charge may read 2.8 - 3.2 grains. I now do not trust it. Can not get zero to be consistant.

How long has it been since you cleaned the agates?

One of the first things i did. Looked to make sure if I could see any damge to surfaces. to my inexperianced eyes all looked good, but I did have an small object (small roll of electrical tape) fall off a shelf, landing on ballanc beam.

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Originally Posted by huntnman

One of the first things i did. Looked to make sure if I could see any damge to surfaces. to my inexperianced eyes all looked good, but I did have an small object (small roll of electrical tape) fall off a shelf, landing on ballanc beam.

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Sorry 'bout that.

The vee blocks are most likely to be either broken or undamaged; your's are probably not broken.

Your symptoms suggest you have a banged up pivot bar knife edge. I don't believe those sharpened steel edges are hardened so even a modest impact can dull the critical knife edges; meaning the knife edges may be flattened (dulled) a bit. If so, the broad faced - i.e., dull - knife edges sitting in the vee blocks will slightly shift the beam's balance point left or right and small variations of indicated zero and weight like your's will be a fact of life until it's corrected.

It's possible that a careful craftsman could hand sharpen the dulled edge(s) properly but it would be difficult. Best solution would be to have the scale maker re-grind both of your beam's knife edges so they are sharp AND precisely aligned.

I have had an Ohaus Dial-a-grain since the very early 1970s.... bion the scales which replaced a Redding simple balance beam (which I still have, too). I have a couple of electronic scales now, ranging from a low-priced Dillon Determinator to a fairly high end RCBS. The Dial-a-grain is my "Mr. Reliable!!!" and I wouldn't part with it for most anything! Complementing both Lyman and RCBS check weight kits I have a few small, cut pieces of paper clips and fine solder -- meticulously cut to a perfect for task weight -- which I regularly will then transfer to one of the other scales as a "check" for them.
Other than the paper scale put on, I believe all of the similar ones are indeed the same unit. Only difference I've ever noticed is that some are calibrated in grams rather than grains; others have a sliding beam with a weight rather than the knob.
geo

Although the big upright Ohaus scales like the 304, 3100, Dial-o-gram etc. are good solid, well made machines, I've had far better results from other scales when it comes to repeatability and sensitivity. The over heavy damping has already been mentioned, another problem is, although the knife edges are quite well shielded from dust, they are a devil of a job to clean when it comes time for a service, especially the inner bearing.
The lack of sensitivity, compared with, say, a good Lyman M5, is, I feel partly due to the sheer mass of the beam compared to a single kernel of powder and partly to overall weighing capacity of the scale.
Trying to weigh 2.5 grains of Bullseye on a scale that has a full scale range of over 1,000 grains is like trying to keep a car at 5.5 mph with a speedo that has a range of 0-120mph, you would be far better off with a speedo that read 0-20.

P

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Originally Posted by LeadHead72

Well, I suppose the 304 would be easier to read because the dial is only used for tenths of a grain, while the dial on the 3100 is used for both ones and tenths. Perhaps they are overkill but like you I like having one (or two) "just because".

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Actually, the dial on a 304 is divided into grains and tenths.

I also notice a difference with my 304 in sensitivity. The way I can best overcome it is that I trickle up to a weight. When I use this scale I am primarily running rifle charges. When I can first throw through a measure, then trickle up on the 304, I find it is advantageous as the scale is fairly slow to sneak up on a charge.

If I hurry too much and the scale beam goes past the center mark it rests slightly above the center line with the same amount of powder. I take the beam and shift it below the mark, release it so that it rises from below to resettle. If the scale again goes “high” I remove some powder and re-weigh, then re-trickle.

We get hung up on the precise weight of a particular charge when in my mind (so long as the charge is safe) its as much about consistent charges as whether it weighs say 56.2 gr vs 56.3 gr. than what ever the precise weight of a given load is, in the end I believe it’s consistency.

Running my 304 from below weight with a thrown charge set a bit light then trickled up with a bit of caution gives me a decently consistent load and this is in varmint guns.

I will say this thread has been valuable in getting me to review my usage of this scale and I will likely reserve its use to long guns that burn moderate to heavy charges and rely on my 510 or 1010 RCBS scales for hand gun and small capacity rifle cartridges.

Three44s

The Ohaus 3100 You have picture Is technically not a Loading scale. That scale was made Pre Rcbs 304 For Industry and Labs. mainly to weigh Powders as such. You overall Hight In Longer to fit on a Lab table. You can tell Buy the Pan and Pan support system. They adapted this Later for loading
The picture Below , I purchased New In appox 1969-70. They Modified Your scale to Be as seen in the picture and RCBS "copied the 3100 for there 304". It will still weigh The same and same accuracy and a Great Looking Earlier model
I am Unable to Upload The Photo because my attachment are maxed Out
If Interested send Me a PM with an email to send
Sal

"A man with a watch always knows what time it is. A man with two is never sure." The same applies to scales. I once passed a shiny new dime around to all my friends to weigh on their scales. Here is the result:

34.4 Dillon elec
34.5 Lyman beam
34.5 Redding beam
34.5 PACT elec
34.6 Dillon beam
34.7 RCBS beam

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Originally Posted by Viffleros

In my opinion, if you are going to sell these scales, I would sell both pairs. If they are vintage, they should be worth quite a bit of money. Collectors like to collect these things. Plus, it's old stuff. Progress is never slow, and you could buy a cheap smart electronic scale that could perform a lot more functions than these vintage ones. Of course, the choice is yours, but if I were you, I'd try to make some money on it and use the profits to buy something modern and inexpensive that might also last a few years.

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My career is in the field of technology and I have no desire for a cheap/inexpensive digital scale for regular use. Digital scales have their own set of issues/problems while for the most part older *quality* beam scales function extremely well for a very long time. "Progress" is not always "progress".

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Originally Posted by LeadHead72

My career is in the field of technology and I have no desire for a cheap/inexpensive digital scale for regular use. Digital scales have their own set of issues/problems while for the most part older *quality* beam scales function extremely well for a very long time. "Progress" is not always "progress".

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So, you still use a slide rule?

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Originally Posted by elmacgyver0

So, you still use a slide rule?

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No, I never had the need for a slide rule and in fact don't even know how to use one.
But to humor your attempt at shaming me for my choice, calculators don't have the same reliability issues that digital scales have, either.

Whats wrong with a Slide Rule. I use one up until I retired to check my work. Very accurate

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Originally Posted by elmacgyver0

So, you still use a slide rule?

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Originally Posted by salpal48

Whats wrong with a Slide Rule. I use one up until I retired to check my work. Very accurate

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First, no one has ever harmed themselves or a firearm from weighing powder with a slide rule.

I worked for 12 years in NASA space programs as a precision electronic instruments calibrator/repairman just two steps down from the National Bureau of Standards. There is not now and there will never be a cheep (under about $800) electronic powder scale on my bench.

My first powder scale in 1966 was a balance beam. Today, after weighing many pounds of charges, it still reads dead on the 260.9 gr. test weight it came with. I won't say which scale it is because it's no longer made but it's been my experience that any other simple and undamaged beam scale will do as well. IF I had to get a new powder scale tomorrow it would be a Redding or Dillon magnetic damped beam scale

Lee's little "Safety Scale" is as sensitive and accurate as anything else, maybe more so. It's just so damp light it's easy to bump around but IT WORKS!

1hole, you summed it up quite nicely.