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This is a first: a Google search turned up absolutely nothing on this set. RCBS no longer lists them, so they probably won't offer any info. At any rate, they're not responding to emails right now, so there's point trying. Does anyone have any experience with these, specifically, does anyone know for sure that they are roll-crimp, rather than taper-crimp, dies? They load the .455 Webley.
It only requires a simple test, 1 case, and 1 bullet. The normal drill; size, flare case mouth, insert bullet into case, seat bullet, crimp bullet while adjusting crimp / seating die further down.
Is the bullet crimp a taper crimp or a roll crimp? Big hint: no matter how low you set a taper crimp die, it will not form a roll crimp. You may taper crimp the mouth 0.080" BUT it is not a roll crimp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer1911
Unfortunately, the seller has neither the ability nor interest to be able to perform any tests. He doesn't reload.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit in my request. If I had possession of the dies, I wouldn't need to ask. I'm interested in purchasing this set, but only if it's a roll crimp. All I have is the classified advert, so I'm reduced to asking if anyone out there currently possesses an RCBS 45031 die set for the .455 Webley and can confirm whether or not it performs a roll crimp.
Since the only .455 Webley autoloader I can think of is the Webley-Fosbery, I would bet the dies roll crimp. Unless the are meant for the British .455 used in their version of the 1911, which admittedly is a pretty slight chance.
If it is for a decent price, I would buy them. Even if it is a taper crimp, you can still shoot them in a revolver.
Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk42gunner
The Webley-Fosbery is still a revolver, just a self-cocking one. However, you do bring up an interesting point, since Webley did design and manufacture their own auto in .455, separate from the 1911. It was used by the Royal Navy. If this set is designed for the Webley auto, it won't be roll crimp. That might also explain why there's zero information in the Google search. Webley autos are hardly common, so it stands to reason the dies for them would be even scarcer.
I can’t find that number. There were two different sets for roll vs taper. My bet is they are roll.
However, LEE has an Set and Redding. The Redding is in stock at grafs
I'm in Canada; Graf's isn't. Redding has a good name, though I'm not sure about their .455 dies specifically. Also, their product is pricey enough to start with, and by the time you add the crazy American postage rates.... There are Lee sets in stock here in Canada, but the Lee set has issues, apparently, and although their separate collet crimp die would be perfect, it's not available for the Webley.Quote:
Originally Posted by j4570
The RCBS set is offered to me in Canada at a good price, but I need a roll crimp. I'd hate to pay the shipping only to find out RCBS used a one-type-does-it-all to cut cost.
On a better note, a bit of research has shown me that the .455 Auto is a totally different cartridge. The box would certainly be labelled as such, so I don't think it's part of the equation here.
You are right about the W-F being a revolver, but I know I have seen a Webley .455 slide type auto loader. Maybe on Forgotten Weapons?Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf
I'm having computer issues now and can't really access youtube to search for the video.
The one I'm thinking of was big and blocky, kind of like a well made High-Point. Is that as stupid sounding to you as it is to me?
Robert
You're memory is correct. You're thinking of the Webley & Scott Automatic, the block-iest pistol ever seen (but most modern autos are approaching that stage). It was adopted by the Royal Navy just before WWI. It's most commonly thought of as a .455 (a completely different cartridge to the Webley revolver round, I discovered), but was also made in .32 and .38. I even found one example in .25. It was also issued to the RFC and to some artillery units. The Metropolitan Police used them also, in the lighter caliber. The lighter caliber weapons were much smaller, but just as rectangular as their big brothers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk42gunner
Attachment 281342
This is a snip from Huntingtons website with the last part numbers for the Revolver and Auto Dies (probably several years ago, you can find this on their site if you dig). That's about as good as it gets but it does show two different sets.
A review of my 1976 RCBS catalog only shows The Webley in the Custom Order section with no part number, it's just a table of calibers available.
I've never had a problem with Redding Dies, and yes they are about $200. I always look for used as well, but if it's something I shoot, I have gotten to where I try to quit worrying about it. I mean if you shoot 20 boxes in it (500 rounds) while you own it, then that's $10 more per box. I understand the Canada customs issue as well.
The RCBS part numbers changed over the years as they changed seating stem setups, moved the decapper from the expander to the sizer, etc. so that's why it can be difficult to track down.
If the LEE dies have problems, then I would probably go for those used RCBS you have found at a good price. Doesn't sound like you are going to be able to get any more info from the seller.
One more option, Buffalo Arms has 455 Webley dies in stock. It's another $20 for the shellholder so about $150 total.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/455-webl...455webley.html
Also, it's shipping from the US as you mentioned it's probably expensive. And not sure if dies require the dreaded export permit.
I know it's more than you want to spend probably, but it's out there as an option.
You could see if a call to RCBS turned up anyone there who knew for certain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh
They're not interested. They're not even taking calls. "Leave your number. We'll call you." Emails have a minimum 2-week turn-around time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4570
Any shipping from the U.S. is expensive for us. Obviously, there's the exchange rate. Then, USPS parcel rates are huge compared to ours, which might be why so many U.S. sellers use those pirates at UPS (turn head and spit). They're despised here in Canada. They tack on big bogus surcharges and hold our parcels for ransom until it's paid. Then they dump them on the doorstep in broad daylight with a "free for the taking" sign on them. Canada Post is a bargain by comparison, no surcharges, no dealing with Customs, and they safely deliver the parcels to my P.O. box.
The only set of dies I ever bought from the U.S. were one-offs, so I had no choice. By the time they crossed the border, they cost $350 Can.
My fall-back option may end up being to buy the mystery dies, then if necessary, get a Lee collet crimper in .45 Colt and shorten it to .455 Webley.
P.S. I did check the Buffalo link, just out of curiosity. They turn out to be CH4D dies. I checked out CH4D in the past, but they only offer taper crimp. A lot of makers substitute taper, to simplify inventory, or use a hybrid die, not a true roll crimp.
It looks like your best option is to buy the mystery dies. They might just turn out really well! I know the LEE set is probably a mixed set. I've heard of a lot of people using 45 ACP or 45 Auto Rim dies and modifying them as necessary. I have a set of Auto Rim dies around here somewhere. I probably should look in them and see if they taper or roll crimp. I know that probably most if not all 45 ACP dies taper crimp (though I think some early brands would roll crimp if you adjusted the die down far enough-not something you want, but something that occurred).
Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4570
You're right. I'm taking the dies, plus I've been offered a Lee collet crimper in .45 Colt that I can shorten to Webley length. Even if the set does roll crimp, the collet die has enough added advantage that it'll be worth it.
Thanks for all your help, Jason. Appreciate it.
GONRA sez once ya'll get dies .455 Webley & Scott Auto is straight forward to load.
SEMI RIMMED case. .45 Loong Colt parent brass. Use any boolit crimp you want!
Lyman 457127 casts the prefect boolit. Ammo eyeballs just like factory....
Phun to shoot.....
(Checkout the "blind shaping" operation inside the sllde..... YIKES!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GONRA
Thanks, but not looking to load .455 Auto.
Ive had dies shipped out of the US by USPS cheaper than getting something shipped accross Canada. If Brownells has them the shipping is usually around 10.00 us. Never have anything shipped across the border by anyone other than USPS or you'll get hit with brokerage charges.
To the question of crimper style, RCBS once commonly offered 45 Auto Rim dies, identical to the ACP set, except that the AR crimper was a roll style. I bet that their 455 dies, being for a revolver round, also have a roll crimper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nueces
I'll find out when I do the first test crimp with these when they arrive. Even if it does form a roll, in the end I suspect the superior action of the collet crimper will likely win out and become my preferred choice. Had I known in the beginning I could produce one in .455 merely by shortening the Colt die, this whole question would have been moot. Hats off to the clever man who pointed me to that solution!
I dug out my RCBS 45 Auto Rim dies and looking up inside it appears it is a roll crimp. They are from 1977 (old style RCBS with decapper on end of expander).
I looked at a LEE 44 Collet style crimp die I have (only straight wall one I have) and I'm not sure how you would modify a 45 Colt for 455 Webley. Isn't it a real short case? I'd be interested in the mod. I didn't see it listed in this thread unless I missed it. I'm interested for a different case though, but shortening a different collet die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4570
PM sent.