1891 Argentine 7.65 Mauser bolt is broken

Hey, I have an 1891 Argentine 7.65 Mauser that we inherited from my wife's Grandfather. I clean/oil all my guns every 3/4 months cause the humidity is so bad here in Mississippi even with a dehumidifier in the gun cabinet. I know I am probably overdoing but it gives me a chance to take them all out. Any way enough rambling. When I took the 7.65 out the other day, I noticed that the end of the bolt closest to the stock had a piece broken off of it. I guess it broke the last shot at the range the last time I shot it a few years ago. What is missing? What else should I look at to see if anything else is gone/broken?

If more pics or information are needed to diagnose the problem, just let me know.

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Thanks,
Trav

After looks at a website with parts for my gun, I think it is the firing pin, part #2 in the link below, that broke. and the cocking piece. part #9 is missing. I don't see parts #5, #6, or #7 on my gun. What am I not seeing? where should parts 5-7 be?
thanks,

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...r/91-argentine

Parts 5-7 are the safety detent parts and are in the safety lever. Liberty tree has the firing pins for $39

it looks like I am also missing #9. Just to be clear, when you say safety lever, you are referring to part #8 right? I have part #9 which slides into #8, but I don't see anything else attached to #4 or #8.

This is all the parts that I have from the bolt:

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You appear to have a "lo-swing" safety , an aftermarket part for scope clearance .....so wont need the little bits from the original safety......all you need are the firing pin and the end piece that in the 91 screws on,later Mausers it fits three grooves with a 1/4 turn.

John, thanks for the reply.

Is the end piece part #9 in the diagram I have linked?

So does the end piece screw on to the firing pin?

Since I have a different safety is the end piece still the same?

Is the end piece what keeps the "lo-swing" safety on? Because right now I can just pull it out.

thanks again for all the help.
Trav

I will suggest a trip to your local gunsmith. Your after market safety and your new cocking piece will likely need to be adjusted/fitted to work together properly. The cocking piece is the part that screws on to the end of the firing pin. If the gunsmith is any good at all they can fix your bolt very quickly.

Looking inside the bolt sleeve (part #4) in the photo above, is that crud in there or oddly shaped metal? When you fire a Mauser the firing pin moves forward under spring pressure. The face of the cocking piece (part #9) striking against the inner face of the bolt sleeve is what makes the firing pin stop. The inner face inside the bolt sleeve should be smooth and flat. If the face of the cocking piece is hitting inside the bolt sleeve at an angle, it will be canting at an angle and trying to snap off the back of the firing pin with every shot. If that's crud inside the bolt sleeve clean it out. If its bad metal, replace the bolt sleeve.

I wonder if whoever bent the bolt put a 93-96 low swing safety in it.

The MK2 safety requires a slot to be cut in the bolt shroud to retain the safety lever in the down(fire) position. The cocking piece holds it in place when in the up(safe) position. At least that's how it works on my 93 and the 96s and 98s I've had. The 91 might be different.

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Check with Numrich Arms or Jack first for parts.

Unfortunately a lot of bolt handle alterations ruin the hardening of the ramps/cams in the cocking end of the bolt......if the ramps are soft ,the camming edges dig in and that alone can cause firing pin breakage.

ok. I received my firing pin and my cocking piece.

I cleaned all the parts of my bolt. they are nice and shiny.

405grain, the stuff you were concerned with in the bolt sleeve was all crud and its all gone. There was enough crud built up that it was almost a 1/16 of an inch thick on one side. No metal, just crud. I don't think the bolt had ever been taken apart and cleaned. My wife inherited this gun from from her father who got it from her grandfather.

I have found my safety, It is a Dayton Traister - Mark II Safety as in the link below:

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...-prod5686.aspx

TexasByGod, could you post a pic or two of your gun so I can see what you are talking about please? I don't see a piece labeled a bolt shroud in the parts list diagram in the link. Is it called something different in the diagram?

Since I am just replacing the firing pin and the cocking piece, I would think any adjustments would already be done unless they are to be done to the cocking piece. But the safety doesn't stay in when cycling the bolt except for when the safety is all the way to the right.

I am going to take the gun to a gunsmith. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can for when I talk to him.

I'm having trouble posting pics at the present time, but what I'm calling the bolt shroud is called the bolt sleeve on a diagram that I just looked up. I wish that I had a 91 to look at. I hope the gunsmith fixes you up.

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The Mk !! safety is sort of a problematic device. I've installed several of them, and have a couple of my own rifles equipped with them. Their main advantage is low cost. When installing them you must cut/grind a notch near the rear of the bolt shroud to retain the safety in the shroud when it is in the off/safe position. Looking at your photo it appears to me that perhaps your notch has broken off, not uncommon in these rifles, as there isn't much of a surface in which to grind the notch, and the result is a pretty thin rear wall of the notch which is not only prone to breakage, but which situation is perhaps enhanced by the heat of the actual grinding effecting the temper of the metal. When the safety is in the "off" or "fire" position with the wing up it is not held in by anything except the friction of the safety's shaft inside the shroud. Later versions have a small rubber "O" ring to assist in retention, but I never saw one that couldn't just be pulled out to the rear when in the fire position. My advice, especially on the 1891 Argentine, is to re-install an issue military safety if you do not intend to mount a scope on the rifle. This will give you a positive safety, something that is not likely to break. You can probably reuse the same shroud, as the military safety is much more positive and does not require a notch.

DG

Der Gebirgsjager,

In the next to last pic, i have two red lines drawn. It looks like it is broken off there. Is that what you are referring to? This gun already has a scope on it. For my wife to hunt with it, it will have to have a scope. So it looks like I should order a new piece and have a gunsmith notch it , correct? I can take him the old one as a reference for how far to notch it. You said that you had done this. Do you sell them notched? If so, how much?


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And here is a link to video of me showing the parts from all angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnPXmQMCHTU

thanks,
Trav

Yes, that is exactly right. In the 6th photo from the top, it shows the safety resting in the notch. You can see how thin the rear wall of the notch is, and it does appear that the upper part of that wall is broken off as shown in the photo with the red lines. Only you can determine if the safety is still functional with the amount of notch remaining.

So, if the bolt was all assembled and operational, lacking the missing part of the notch you could pull the safety straight back and out of the bolt when it was "on safe"--in which case it certainly would not be safe as the rifle would be cocked and the safety missing. It is conceivable that a tree branch could snag on the safety and pull it out, and the rifle be ready to fire without your knowledge. A remote possibility, but stranger things have happened.

I am familiar with the safety piece as shown with the nylon/plastic retention button on the shaft to retain it in the shroud. I have seen them no longer work after being rounded off from being pulled out of the bolt just once or twice, and then the safety can start working it's way out of the bolt from the recoil of firing.

As I said before, I have installed several of these safeties, own a couple of them, but don't like or trust them. If you would like to reassemble the bolt with an as-issued military safety, I have a nice one that I found this morning when looking for a broken bolt shroud to take a photo of to illustrate what we have been talking about. I found the safety, but not a shroud--I guess I trashed them. I will send the safety to you as a gift if you want it. They aren't ideal for use with a scope, but you can compensate by using high mounts and rings. They require a 180 degree rotation from safe (left) to fire (right). PM me your address if you want the part.

DG

DG, that is awesome. Thanks. I can at least send you a check for shipping if you want. So with the part you are shipping, All I would need is a new shroud? It already has high rings so I think I am good there. I will PM you my address.

thanks, This site is awesome.
Trav

Quick question. Does this site have a max image/video posting limit?

Address received. It will go out Monday. No check needed. It's very likely that you can use the same shroud.

As far as I know there is no limit to posts. We have a couple of inane threads that have gone on well over 300 posts and get added to every day. As for images, yes there is a storage limit. If you upgrade your membership the storage allowance increases. If you attempt to post an image and the site notifies you that you have insufficient storage space remaining, you can go your Profile area and look for "attachments", click on that and delete images you no longer want to create storage space. This results in the image(s) disappearing from the post(s) on which they were originally shown, and when viewed by someone at a later date they see "Image removed by owner" or sometimes a small black box with a white "X" in it.

DG

Since you're already getting most of the parts anyway, you may want to think about getting the same parts for a 93-96 mauser since there is a better selection especially with low mount safetys, plus all of the 93-96 mausers have the gas wings on the bolt that not all 91 mauser shrouds including yours have. In 2016 sent a complete 1891 bolt to a gunsmith to have it jeweled, the bolt handle cut off and a new one installed to clear a scope. By 2019 I had lost confidence I'd ever see my bolt again but luckily had another bolt body that was within .0005" of the same headspace so I have been using it along with guts from a 96 mauser. Little fitting of the cocking piece, but that is expected with any 120+ year old parts.

DG,
I received the part this morning. Thanks again for your generosity. I will try putting it back together this evening after work. I got your PM about how it works and will be checking it.

Thanks again,
Trav

I received the original type safety from DG this morning. I put the bolt back together watching two different youtube videos. Something isn't right. DG, you mentioned that I might have to shave some off of the front of the cocking piece. By my measurements I will have to shave 1/8 inch. That can't be right, can it? Here are some more pics with a tape measure so that you can see the measurements. Do all of these look like the right size pieces?

The first pic shows how far the cocking pieces recesses into the shroud
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The second pic shows how about much I will have to bevel. See the mark at 5 1/8. I marked this with the bolt in and the gun cocked.
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The third pic shows how far the cocking piece extends when cocked.
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The fourth pic shows the length of the shroud. It almost seems like my shroud is too long.
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The fifth pic shows the length of the new firing pin.

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Make sure you have the cocking piece screwed on the firing pin flush at the rear of the threads. Check to make sure the firing pin does not protrude thru the hole in the bolt face when not cocked.

If the cocking piece is screwed on flush, I can catch the firing pin with my finger nail when is not cocked. If I go one more turn in with the cocking piece, I can't feel the firing pin. So maybe what I am thinking of as flush for the cocking piece is not really. When I put it all back together with the cocking piece screwed on enough so that I can't catch the firing pin it, I am still not able to rotate safety from the left to the right. DG suggested that I am going to have to bevel the front top edge of the cocking piece to get it to where the safety will work. I am going to try to do this. I will post some pictures shortly of what I plan to do and mark how much I plan to bevel off.

These parts (safety and cocking piece) often need fitted when replaced or swapped about among rifles. Why that is I'm not certain, as German manufacturing of interchangeable parts was well advanced by 1891. It's kind to the luck of the draw, as some will readily fit in other rifles or with other component parts, but some will not. Seems as though yours is going to require modification.

The way this safety is designed to function is that when the safety wing is turned from left (9 0'clock-- fire position) to the right (3 o'clock--safe position) the cam on the bottom of the safety part forces it way in front of the cocking piece and moves it to the rear slightly. This moves the firing pin rearward slightly, as it is screwed into the cocking piece and goes along with it's movement to the rear, and also imposes a physical block (the safety part in front of the cocking piece) preventing the cocking piece from being released forward if the trigger is pulled.

I have done several of these fitting jobs in the past, and it isn't always easy. It is a cut and try job, a little at a time until the desired result is achieved. Just shortening the entire front face of the cocking piece will work to a certain extent, in that, if done carefully, you can hit the exact length needed for the safety part to pass in front of the cocking piece and freeze it in that location. But that does not move the cocking piece rearward, just prevents it from traveling forward. If you cut/grind it a bit longer so that there is enough length to interact with the safety part and be pushed to the rear, you'll likely find that you can't get the safety to turn, just as it is now. What is needed is to cut a bevel on the top upper edge of the cocking piece for the safety part to push against, and as the safety's cam turns in the bevel the cocking piece is forced rearward until the safety part blocks it.

Cutting the bevel is a bit tricky, and as already stated, it is a cut and try job and will almost certainly require disassembly/reassembly of the bolt multiple times. Very honestly, I ruined at least two cocking pieces in learning how to do it a lot of years ago, but fortunately parts were readily available. In fact, they probably still are. The way that I proceed is to blacken the cocking piece in the area to be modified, using a Sharpie, Dykem layout fluid, or Prussian Blue, let it dry, and then attempt to move the safety from left to right. This will make a small mark in the blackened area. That's where you need to start filing/grinding, removing any metal that is in the way of the turning cam. Doing this carefully and repeatedly will eventually get you the desired result of the safety camming into and past the cocking piece. A highly polished surface on the bevel will help a lot.

If the cocking piece was disassembled in your fingers and you were looking at it from the front I would expect the bevel to look a little lopsided, extending from about 10:30 o'clock to 2:30 o'clock, and sloping toward the viewer about 1/4 of the thickness from the top to the firing pin hole. That is a rough estimate based on having done several years ago, and not actually digging one out of storage and taking it apart to look at it---so proceed with caution. As you observed, it may well be 1/8" at the top of the bevel.

DG

DG,
thanks, I understood your explanation in the PM you sent me. I was just telling the others who responded to my emails what my plan of attack was since they were kind enough to respond.

Trav

The Forum abounds with good people, many very knowledgeable. Good luck with this--keep us posted.

DG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager

The Forum abounds with good people, many very knowledgeable. Good luck with this--keep us posted.

DG

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I plan to try it tomorrow. I'm going to my Dad's. He has a vice and I will use my drimmel and just start small and keep marking like you said.

Thanks again.

sorry for the delay in updating. I've been really busy at home and and work. This week I am going to attempt to make the mod that DG outlined.

thanks again for all the help,
Trav

I got it working. I am going to do a little more grinding on it. It works but is hard to flip the safety on. I'm thinking that i need to slope it so that the angle on the cocking piece is not so steep where the safety is hitting it. I may go ahead and order another cocking piece or two to try to do a better job if I can't clean this one up some so that it is easier to flip the safety. The hardest part was the approximately 7422 times that I had to take the bolt apart and put it back together after each little bit of grinding.

DG, thanks again for all your help and for sending me the safety.

Trav

You're welcome. A high polish will also help.

DG

I worked on it a little more and now its easier to set the safety on. I went to my parents who live out in the country and shot it 10 times with no problems. For the first 5 shots I set up in a lead sled where I was around the corner of the house out of sight pulling the trigger with a string. Yeah, I'm a chicken.

thanks again DG.

Trav

Just wanted to give an update. The gun is working fine. I was able to take two deer with the gun this season. It shoots accurately and the safety works. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice and to DG for giving a part to someone who you had never met or even talked to prior to this.

Thanks again,
Trav

Can't argue with success, eh? Great rifle, great cartridge.

DG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagnoliaHunter

Just wanted to give an update. The gun is working fine. I was able to take two deer with the gun this season. It shoots accurately and the safety works. Thanks again to everyone who gave advice and to DG for giving a part to someone who you had never met or even talked to prior to this.

Thanks again,
Trav

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what were ya using?