Wad for 7/8oz lee slug

I have just started reloading for shotgun. I recently casted a bunch of the lee 7/8oz key drive slugs. The problem I have ran into is the wad slug combos being way too tight. Like I can’t begin to push these through the barrel of any of my shotguns.

Being as I am a new shotgun reloader all I have on hand is Winchester AA 12 red wads. What wads should I purchase that will give me a smaller diameter. I know this probably isn’t a big deal to someone who has all kinds of wads laying around to try but I’m not there yet.

Also with the limited availability of components right now I’d like to get recommendations on a couple to try so I can keep an eye out for them and hopefully find some in stock.

Look at shotgun reloading on this site.

Did you not get the Lee loading data sheet with your mould? The wads they list should be a reasonable fit for most guns.

Here is a link to the PDF:

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/SM%203529.pdf

Another good place to look for loading info is here:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/load14_06_13.htm
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/load14_04_25.htm

BPI tends to promote their own products in their load data but the info is good.

Also, look up SuperBlazingSabots using the search. Ajay has listed a large selection of fit info for wads and slugs. Very handy info!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...mold-load-data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Sabot!/page31

The second link is his lengthy thread full of info.

Shotgun bores tend to vary a lot as well. I have one with 0.729" bore and one with 0.733" bore so "good fit" in the 0.733" bore is tight in the 0.729" bore and rifled guns tend to be even tighter,

The Winchester AA Red wads I had were quite thick and soft. I didn't find them at all satisfactory for the slugs I was using at the time. I didn't have my Lee moulds then. I found that the "other" Winchester wads in 7/8 oz., 1 oz., and 1 1/8 oz. (Pink, yellow and white) have a tougher and thinner plastic. Those have worked well for me with several slugs including Lees.

My Lee 7/8 oz. mould casts smaller than my 1 oz. mould and it is a bit loose for fit in the 7/8 oz. wads for my 0.733" bore gun. a wrap of paper solves that.

Also, I suggest you put a 16 ga. or 20 ga. 1/8" nitro card wad under the slug to keep the wad from pushing up into the cavity. Even with the drive key I find that wads distort and sometimes fail due to pushing into the cavity without the nitro card wad.

Take a look at the Lee info and Ajay's suggestions then check your bore diameter. From that you should be able to order a bag of wads that will be suitable. Even if tight the Win AA Reds may work. If they are too tight the petals will squish and accuracy may be poor but worth a try if you already have them.

Longbow

AA pink in my rifled barrel with the Lee 7/8 slug. Two cards under slug. For smooth bore I’m using Fed 12S0.

Thanks for the replies I’ll try to find some of the wads mentioned. I guess I was just surprised how tight the AA12 wad was. I have 5 12 gauge shotguns and none of them would even begin to let the slug and wad start in the barrel.

I even removed the barrels and tried from the breech end with no luck.

I would shoot them anyway. My experience is that if you can push them through by hand, they shoot like garbage. A tight fit, is a good fit.

It wouldn't hurt to try them. At worst they won't be accurate.

I found the Win AA Red wads had petals that were too thick for any slugs or balls I had so petals sheared and accuracy was poor. Also, the gas seals seem to fail easily with slugs. The plastic seems quite soft so maybe not suited to higher pressures? I have to think they are okay with whatever shot loads they were intended for but like I said, the other Winchester WAA wads have thinner petals and tougher plastic.

Ajay (SuperBlazingSabots) recommends a firm push through the bore for smoothbore, Counter to msm's finding I got better results with a fairly light push effort through the bore. I'm sure wad type, slug type and of course bore dimension will all affect what works for you and your gun.

Contrary to my experience, and similar to msm's, 725 says he uses a 0.702" ball in a shotcup for rifled gun and that has to be a very tight fit yet he gets good accuracy.

Look for wads after you shoot. Generally, at least in my experience, if wads are mangled with sheared petals fit is too tight and/or pressure is too high for that wad (assuming no sticky hull extraction which means pressure is too high!). Mangled wads usually = poor accuracy. If accuracy is good but wads mangled don't worry about it!

Longbow

For the record, I have not got either of the Lee slugs to shoot to my liking. Only that the tighter fits were not as horrible.

I got my new hull vise and roll crimping tool in from the reloaders network a couple days ago. I’ll try to roll some up this week and report back.

The genuine Winchester wads have thinner petals, but the red wads probably leave the slug seated lower down in the thicker part---could try a card under to rectify this. Pink wads are great, and I've also had much success with WT12 orange wads. Do not substitute Claybusters, as they have an annoying rib on the petals which interferes with a proper fit. The thinnest wads available are the Windjammer style 8 petal wads, but I've found that the cushion section is just too flimsy to support my slug loads, so my results have been really bad with these. I'd agree with the notion that the plastic is, well, plastic. It can crush and deform, so you're unlikely to have a Kaboom! However, I have found that my overall favorite shotgun wads, the PT1215 and PT1210, are indeed too thick for my H&R rifled guns with Lee slugs, and I do get some early pressure signs (sticky extraction, extractor bulges, flattened primers) in otherwise very conservative loads. Not the case in my Benelli Nova Tactical (smoothbore) with the same exact loads; in fact, as Mega said, the tight fit makes them very accurate in the Benelli. Just trying to point out that it is possible to take this principle a little too far.

Hello, here in italy we used the lee 7/8 and 1 oz slug successfully on hog hunts with nobel sport GT wads. Great fit and good accuracy. the height of the wad depends from the density of the powder and from weather you roll or fold crimp. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/No...tinfo/139GTT1/

the 7/8 oz we can load to about 1700 ft-sec with pressure within normal limits

I use a PT1205 wad works great out to 25 yards with 7/8 oz Lee Slug.

Tony From Italy: What kinds of shotguns are you using on your Hog Hunts ? SXS, O/U's, Semi Autos, or Pumps?

You guys are light years ahead of us as far as shotgun technology and we'd all like to hear what you guys use on your hunts?

Also some pics of your reloading machines would help us understand how you load ammo.

Randy

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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Tony From Italy: What kinds of shotguns are you using on your Hog Hunts ? SXS, O/U's, Semi Autos, or Pumps?

You guys are light years ahead of us as far as shotgun technology and we'd all like to hear what you guys use on your hunts?

Also some pics of your reloading machines would help us understand how you load ammo.

Randy

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Hello Randy, i use a Beretta 391 light. Most of us use semiautos, mostly Berettas A 300 series. Older Berettas in my opinion are better then new ones. Benelli is another one used. I am fortunate i have, within 40 miles, 3 gun shops and reloading shops that have pressure barrels to test our loads. Everything changes as far as pressure and speed when your reload a slug compared to shot. I will put pictures if you guys are interested. Now we are almost under house arrest, we cannot go hunting due to the covid-19 restrictions.

Hog are hunted in different ways. One was is the "Braccata", meaning a certain territory is surrounded by 40 -60 hi-powered rifles, one guy avery about 50 yards, like a militia. Inside the area there are the drivers with dogs and send the hogs to the outside positions. We are all connected with walkie talkei, so we know there the hogs are going. Sometimes 50- 60 kills a day. In those hunts is important to use rifles becouse smoot bore often rebounds, ricochet, and people have been killed with the rebounds. Positioning the hunters is very important for safety reasons. It is a militia like operation.

Tony, those are the exacr wads 8 recommend for the Lyman 525 slug with hot glue in the base of slugs. Are your hogs feral like these or European boar?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...11868-Hamicide

Hello, i lived several years in Georgia, Atlanta and Marietta. Used to hunt deer in Hancock county. Good old days they were... Anyway, in italy hogs are just like the ones in your pictures, max weight 280 lbs for a huge big boar. Normally boars go from 180 to 220 lbs when they are adults. In middle Europe, hogs a bigger then here.
For the Lyman 525, which i load too with roll crimp, i would suggest a wad with a rigid (stiff) base like the Nobel Sport GT or the ones you have from Federal. Impressive stopping power this slug we are talking about. I have tested them up to 1540 ft-sec with 840 bars. I know that with progressive powders, they can go faster with less pressure.

Here guns are proofed at 3 level of pressure. Some have a max of 900 bars (13050 psi), most 1200 bars (17400 psi), some 1350 bars(19600psi). according to the barrel you have, you can increase to powder to be within safety limits.

Attachment 272372

OK: I guess your reloads look just about perfect off that machine? I kind of like knew what your machines looked like as others have posted pics of them in the past. However I am always hoping to enlighten others as to what the rest of the world does.

The 12 ga shotgun is NOT an American invention, and since you guys make some of the best shotguns on the planet, it is always wise to consult what the Italians are doing. Most all of the premade Slugs BPI sells are from Gualandi, and I have met their rep at the SHOT Show (Luca) a few years ago and talked Formula 1 and Ferrari with him..

It appears to me that the vast majority of Hunting in Italy gets done with Shotguns? Are there restrictions on High Power Rifles, or Pistols? Or are shotguns just the weapon of choice?

You input is valuable to us, You have a completely different perspective than we do.

And sorry about China trying to kill all of you in Italy, just like they did here. Hope you are doing well.

Randy

Hello Randy, i actually would like to buy that machine, but i do not have it. I have a mac 600 for depriming and resizing, and star crimping. After the crimp, i run the shell throught a spool on the drill, so all shell are the same height. (height of shell con increase or decrease combustion of the powder). Given the fact that we do not have a lot of game exept wild hogs and row deer, we do not shoot a lot of shell a years. Therefore i weigh every single dose of powder, then for the shot i use the mec 600. For slugs, i use new shells, so i only need the drill and the spool. Beside Gualandi, we have a lot a other companies manufacturing components. For example the Thug slug is made in Italy. It is more precise that the gualandi slug, better on thin skineed game like deer and small hogs. The gualandi is a harder lead, has the tendency not to deform and runs right through the animal. (Would be great for bear)
We do not have restrictions on high powered rifles, we do on pistol and black rifles. They cannot be used for hunting, only for shooting is authorized ranges.

Given the fact that the younger generation is not interested in hunting, as the older pass away, their guns are either sold as a block, or taken by the authorities. If you do not have a permit, you cannot have them in your house. Therefore you can find in excellent condition, used over and under, and side by side, for 3-400 euros. Berettas A 300 series in perfect conditions for 150-200 euro. Recently a got an old Breda semiauto 12 ga ( spring recoil operated like the old A 5) for 50 euro, and a Benelli 121 with St. Etienne barrel for 100 euro. They shoot marvelously.

Tony: thanks for the reply. Always good to know what others are up against in their countries.

I load my Slugs on a Pacific DL266 which produces perfect rounds , and then I run them thru a Roll Crimp Spool to finish them so they are more perfect.

STS hull is the current Lyman Slug load.
2 black hulls are Thug Slugs with Rio Hulls from BPI
Blue Federal Hull is a Lee Slug with a Roll Crimp
Pacific DL 266

Randy

TonyfromItaly:

Good to see you back... at least I haven't seen you post for a while.

I have a question for you... are the Russian moulds common in Italy/Europe? I am wondering about the attached tailwad slugs they offer. There is a Gualandi copy (not quite a clone) that could be cast in hard or soft lead. I don't think they offer a Thug Slug clone but some fairly similar and you say that the Thug Slug is more accurate than the Gualandi.

Also, you had some slug designs you were working on. How did those turn out?

I am curious as to what folks on the other side of the pond are doing with shotgun slugs, casting and loading. Is bullet and slug casting common there?

Longbow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by longbow

TonyfromItaly:

Good to see you back... at least I haven't seen you post for a while.

I have a question for you... are the Russian moulds common in Italy/Europe? I am wondering about the attached tailwad slugs they offer. There is a Gualandi copy (not quite a clone) that could be cast in hard or soft lead. I don't think they offer a Thug Slug clone but some fairly similar and you say that the Thug Slug is more accurate than the Gualandi.

Also, you had some slug designs you were working on. How did those turn out?

I am curious as to what folks on the other side of the pond are doing with shotgun slugs, casting and loading. Is bullet and slug casting common there?

Longbow

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Hello Longbow , i made a mold for my 24 ga shotgun, an obsolete caliber that shoots marvelously. It is an undersized foster that i load like a sabot in a gualandi wad. weights about 20 grams , 0.70 oz and goes 480 ms, 1580 ft-sec, like a small express i would say. I also made a Lee like slug for 20 ga with the key.
A lot of folks cast slugs for hunting, not as much casting of bullets because we cannot shoot freely even in your own land, we have to go to a range.
The Thug slug is a pressed slug, swaged as you say, in fact the ribs are all perfect. This slug is sctually 2 pieces in one, the top that detaches from the cylinder walls, so it has a double effect, top part goes trough and the other that flatten on impact on hard skinned game. The 20 ga Thug has better penetration than 20 ga dues to its longer shape . Here in southern italy they have 100 yard slug contests. You shoot at targets with regular sights. All these guys use either gualandi or Thug slugs.

How about these with a rifled barrel, would they be legal in that 100 yard match?

they will go 100 yards easy the group was at 50 yards but should not open too much more at 100.

Randy

Hello Randy, great roll crimp you do, you are a master.
They cannot use rifled barrel for the 100 meters match unfortunately, but they manage to break a 8"x8" tile. Anyway, it is an awsome pattern at 50 yards.

Tony:

I thought I recalled a copper jacket slug you were working on but looked back and found it was solid copper. How did that go in the end? I didn't find range reports.

Have you used any of the Russian slug designs? There are a couple that are similar, at least in proportion, to the Thug Slugs. If they are comparative accuracy they could be cast from hard lead.

I have read that the Gualandi clone is quite accurate so that might be a candidate. Also, the Kontareva - 3 looks good and Petander got some good results from it. With the long bearing surface and attached wad it should do well.

Longbow

Tony: thanks, these Sabot Slugs will go thru a Smoothbore as well. My A5 Buck Special Barrel shoots them fairly well. At least well enough to try shooting at 100 yards. I'll try some and get back to you on that.

Randy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by longbow

Tony:

I thought I recalled a copper jacket slug you were working on but looked back and found it was solid copper. How did that go in the end? I didn't find range reports.

Have you used any of the Russian slug designs? There are a couple that are similar, at least in proportion, to the Thug Slugs. If they are comparative accuracy they could be cast from hard lead.

I have read that the Gualandi clone is quite accurate so that might be a candidate. Also, the Kontareva - 3 looks good and Petander got some good results from it. With the long bearing surface and attached wad it should do well.

Longbow

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Hello Arcoricurvo, i did produce a few solid copper foster style slugs to be used as sabot. We tried them on hog hunting and they worked real well. They were made on a cnc lathe. Then the no toxic fad, in some way faded for hog hunting, so i let it go because they were costly to produce. I like the russian kontareva 2 and 3 design. I think they used my idea, i made a mold of a foster slug eith 2 bands and pubblished it long before the russian did it(see my avatar9. I think that with an attached wad, they will be very precise. My next project is to take a Lee slug mold, modify it . I would like to add 2 bands to it so we can load it by itself over gas seal and fiber wad. What do you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Tony: thanks, these Sabot Slugs will go thru a Smoothbore as well. My A5 Buck Special Barrel shoots them fairly well. At least well enough to try shooting at 100 yards. I'll try some and get back to you on that.

Randy

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Great idea Randy, then you can go to Calabria and partecipate in those longe range shoots !:D

The way we hunts hogs in large groups of hunters here in Toscany, shots are very short, less than 40 yards usually, usually 20-30 meters. So for us, what is important is stopping power. I found that the Lee slug and the lyman sabot slug are the best around in 12 ga. In 20 ga i would add the Thug slug, beside the Lyman or russian clone. The gualandi in both calibers, at short distance behave like a full metal jacket, the run through and the do not stop it in its tracks. Shots are made as the hog runs, so it is not easy to hit in a the head or shoulder.

I never could get the 1 oz. Lee slug to shoot worth a hoot. No matter what I tried I couldn't get accuracy that I considered good enough to hunt with. Results with the 7/8 oz. were about the same until I stumbled across a YouTube video by a guy who goes by SirSloop - I believe he may have hung around this forum also. The wad he was using was the short shell wad from BPI. I rounded up all the components he was using and gave it a try - worked out great. Here's a link to a video where he goes over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9QZHOiZQLk

Here's the wad.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Sh...ctinfo/072SSW/

You'll need some cushion wads and a nitro card to go with it. I can't speak about fit. I never paid any attention to it, I just loaded them up and shot them. It worked out great for me. Just my experience with it - that's all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TonyfromItaly

Hello Arcoricurvo, i did produce a few solid copper foster style slugs to be used as sabot. We tried them on hog hunting and they worked real well. They were made on a cnc lathe. Then the no toxic fad, in some way faded for hog hunting, so i let it go because they were costly to produce. I like the russian kontareva 2 and 3 design. I think they used my idea, i made a mold of a foster slug eith 2 bands and pubblished it long before the russian did it(see my avatar9. I think that with an attached wad, they will be very precise. My next project is to take a Lee slug mold, modify it . I would like to add 2 bands to it so we can load it by itself over gas seal and fiber wad. What do you think?

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Tony:

I read that the Kontareva 3 is supposed to be the most accurate. Not sure if true but if it is at least 0.730" diameter and fills the bore it will be well aligned and those base wads appear to be pretty good and return to shape after firing/while in flight so stands to reason that they would be a good slug. I may just order one of those moulds to try it. I had wanted the Tusker but don't see it listed anymore. I also like the Paradox slug but that one is listed as being 0.724" diameter which is too small in my opinion.

I may just alter the HB pin for my full bore slug so that it takes the same wads and give that a try. Shouldn't be difficult to do and the wads are readily available as far as I know.

As for the Lee slugs I have had similar thoughts off cutting a driving band at the nose and base to make them full bore but since I have full bore slug moulds I haven't bothered because I don't see any advantage over what I have. What I did do a year or so ago is to modify the Lee HB pin to make a lead cone through the drive key so I could drill it for a screw and attach tail wads. The idea worked but I need some better felt and plastic washers for the tail wad. These remain wad slugs but with added tail wad like a Brenneke. A friend said he has some of the dense felt (Durofelt?)used for shotgun wads but he has not brought it over yet. I may just order some. The attached wad slugs I made looked good but accuracy was no better than several other Foster slugs I think mostly because the washers on either side of the felt were distorting and the felt was too soft. I'll try again with better felt. That mod should actually work well I think if proper materials are used and it is easy to do.

But yes to your question, I think adding driving bands to a Lee slug to make it somewhat over bore size should work and eliminates the shotcup variable. Possibly that and an attached wad would be good too.

Longbow