Winchester 452AA powder

I recently bought some shotgun reloading equipment from an estate and ended up with over 7lbs of Winchester 452AA powder that is most likely from the early 80's. 2 of the cans looked to be still originally sealed so it should be fresh. My question is what can I do with it? I am newer to reloading and only have current manuals and see no mention of this powder. I read on various posts that I can also use it for loading 45 acp, which I have. I am also interested in loading it for 45 Colt if possible/safe and maybe 30 caliber rifle loads(30 carbine, 30-06, 308) if applicable . Does anyone have load data to offer? I am not fully set up for shotgun reloading yet as I am still acquiring the necessary tools, so I was not planning on using it for shot shells at this time. Oh yeah, I also got a couple hundred remington 57 star primers that look like 209 primers but just a bit smaller. Are they an outdated size that are no longer used? They look very similar to the remington 97 star primers I also got, but those boxes said "209 size" in parenthesis.

My recollection is that there is pistol load data for 452AA in Speer #11, but I can’t find my electronic copy at the moment.

Do a search here and several threads come up. This one has a lot of load date: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...p/t-14108.html

It's a great 45 auto powder. Until it left the market it was a favorite for bullseye shooting

I am still using 452AA powder and like it very much. It is similar to, but not identical to the current WST which replaced it.

If loading .38 Special or .45 ACP wadcutter in a Star or similar machine, if the powder slide is set to meter a safe charge with Bullseye, you can simply refill the powder hopper with 452AA and keep loading and you will have a safe target load although the powder charge weight will be a bit lighter and will produce a bit lower velocity. It isn't necessary to increase the powder charge as long as the pistol cycles.

A powder slide setting which meters 3 grains of Bullseye will throw 2.8 grains of 452AA.
A setting for 3.5 grains of Bullseye meters 3.2 grains of 452AA.
A setting for 5 grains of Bullseye meters 4.6 of 452AA and will cycle an M1A1 Thompson with #452374.

In the .44-40 Winchester 6.5 grains of 452AA with a 208-grain soft lead bullet is a safe and accurate load for the 1873 Winchester and Gen1 Colt SAs.

7 grains of 452AA with a 255-grain lead conical similar to #454190 is a very close approximation of factory loads in the .45 Colt.

In the .30-'06 8.5 grains of 452AA is an accurate gallery and small game load with 160-grain plainbased cast bullets.

Attachment 271211

About your primers, yes, I think they're obsolete.

Thanks for the replies. All info is helpful. its just to much powder not do do something with it. While its old, its not as old as me and I'm holding up pretty well!

It's a great 12 gauge shotgun powder too.I just finished loading the last pound I had left from many years ago. Good find.
The primers are pretty much useless unless you can find someone with a stash of the old Remington hulls made for them.

If you bought shotgun loading stuff, we assume you will be loading for shotgun so use the stuff.

Check what the machine drops for weight of shot and powder as it may be all set for use.

You didn't state what machine you bought but MEC bars are marked for shot weight and bushing s are numbered. The remaining question is set for which shell.

With those answers we have load data for you. Great for pistol too, l would love to have such a find! Good luck

jdoma120-- I don't know how I missed it, but welcome to the Forum. Lots of nice folks here with good information. Welcome aboard!

i use it for 12 ga 20 ga and 45acp work up loads almost gone 80s production stopped about 1990

gotta buy some of dat new fangled powder sooon ??? its not $8 per pound now?

Thanks, been checking out the site for the past few months and am learning how much I don't know.

Its a MEC 600 jr with 3 bars and 6 bushings. I have not gone through the manual or cleaned it up yet, but it came to me loaded up with powder and #71/2 shot, 60 lbs more of the same shot and a bunch of 209 or 209 style primers, 1 bag of wads(something else to learn about), plus the powder that started this conversation. I was offered several thousand 12 gauge hulls of which I took a few hundred since I have a nice supply of once fired matching high brass hulls.(anybody in S. Texas need 12 gauge hulls?). This will be my first go at reloading shot shells and I need to figure all the stuff I need to do it right.

was a very popular powder for 12 ga loads in 70s 80s

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Originally Posted by turtlezx

was a very popular powder for 12 ga loads in 70s 80s

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This.
I used a lot of 452AA in 12 ga. target loads. Clean burning, uniform metering without bridging in the drop tube, it was my favorite trap powder.

I never tried it in metallic cartridges so I can't speak to that use.

Uncle R.

jdoma120, first of all , welcome to the best forum on the internet!!!!!! As for Winchester 452AA, go to Amazon, or ask our fine moderators and members here, ( someone probably has an electronic copy here they can send you) And buy yourself a copy of the Speer #11 reloading manual, it has a ton of loads in a lot of calibers for this fine powder! Good luck. These fine gentlemen here will help you for sure.

Also look for the Winchester tenth edition of their reloading components catalog 1985 time frame. It has of course the shotgun info but some on 38 spl and 45 acp

Gmsharps

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Originally Posted by jdoma120

Its a MEC 600 jr with 3 bars and 6 bushings. I have not gone through the manual or cleaned it up yet, but it came to me loaded up with powder and #71/2 shot, 60 lbs more of the same shot and a bunch of 209 or 209 style primers, 1 bag of wads(something else to learn about), plus the powder that started this conversation. I was offered several thousand 12 gauge hulls of which I took a few hundred since I have a nice supply of once fired matching high brass hulls.(anybody in S. Texas need 12 gauge hulls?). This will be my first go at reloading shot shells and I need to figure all the stuff I need to do it right.

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Be sure to follow the loading data exactly for shotguns especially, as the barrels are thin and there isn't much leeway compared to a normal metallic cartridge. Not that one shouldn't do that for all reloads unless one is certain changing it is acceptable and safe.

Attachment 275075
Several years ago I was given a full 6lb. can of 452AA by a buddy who was qetting out of shotshell reloading.
On-line checking showed it to be very close, if not the equivalent, to Hogdon Trap 100, so using data for that powder I used it in 9mm. 125gr. and .45ACP 230gr. loads until I sold those guns.
I still use it in 38 Special and 357 Magnum loads, both with 158gr. bullets with the data for Trap 100 and it gives good results.
As it's a very economical to load powder (3.5gr. in 38 Spl. and 5.5gr. in 357 Mag.), I figure I still have a couple of years worth of it left in that can.

I loved 452AA in 45 acp and 9mm

Steve here... Here is a pic of my two 452AA cans. Both 3/4's full. The big one is a 10 pounder and the little one is 1lb. Like others have said I use it in my shotguns, 38 super 9mm 45acp.

I have also had great results using 452AA in the .455 MkII and .44-40 Winchester:

Attachment 281096Attachment 281095

The .455 load shown is perfectly fine in the Colt New Service and S&W Hand Ejectors, but is a bit "warm" for use in the top-break Webleys! I would cut 1/2 grain for those.

In the .44-40 the 6.5 grain charge listed shown with my 1905 Colt matches the velocity of pre-WW2 balloon-head factory loads with Sharpshooter powder and shoots to its fixed sights.

which powder bushing should be used with 7 1/8 shot

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Originally Posted by rebs

which powder bushing should be used with 7 1/8 shot

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That would all depend on which make of shotshell press you have.

I’ve got 4 lbs in a 5 lb can. Works great for mid-power loads in a 45 Colt with a 0.82 cc Lee disk for 6.95 grains (average for 10 charges), with a Lee 255 RNFP. Right on the money with what Outpost75 said about 7 grains

Shot up a lot of it in 12 gauge and 45 ACP. The old handouts from Winchester had data for 38 SPCL and 45 ACP and IIRC the SPEER #11 had some also.

452 AA works well with cast bullet loads in the 45 ACP, 38 Spl, and 9x19mm. It does not take a lot of powder per cartridge case to get good results, with consistency.

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Originally Posted by jdoma120

Thanks for the replies. All info is helpful. its just to much powder not do do something with it. While its old, its not as old as me and I'm holding up pretty well!

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That powder is not that old, I shot surplus WWII powder Saturday in a rifle match. Worked just fine. The 57 primers are semi-obsolete, just gave a buddy 300 of them a couple of weeks ago. He's got a small barrel full of the old Remington hulls that take them, he also has a couple of bricks of the 57's he's working through. He uses them on practice skeet.

Find a dedicated Lyman shotgun manual. It will go through all the basics. You may have wanted to grab your buddies hulls. Wad types are hull specific. The hulls you have may not take the wads you received.

Lyman #2 is the one I think you are looking for. I believe that is the edition that has the data you are looking for. I'd check mine but it is on loan to a buddy who needed it for Alcan data.

FleeceBay has one, but it's $94, If I had known they were that pricey I'd made the buddy give me a security deposit:bigsmyl2:

Bushing # used is dependent on the load you are trying to assemble. 3/4 oz. for light recoiling skeet loads or 1-1/2 oz. for busting geese is, A:different sized bushing to drop more or less powder, and B:may very well be a completely different powder.

Boomer shotgun loads are just like boomer rifle loads, different amounts of powder AND different powder. And wads. And hulls.

I started loading 12 gauge shotgun shells in 1975 with a Lee Whack-A-Mole. Owned and used 30+ different loading presses over the years. Garage sale/Craigslist finds that I cleaned up, reconditioned and pedaled to other shotgunners.

Down to 5 MEC press in 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410.

Only loaded about 200 boxes of shells so far this year. Just waiting on better weather to shoot them.

With the supply shortages we are experiencing I got out my 452AA and am loading some 44-40 ammo. Having an issue with position sensitivity. I'm testing with different primers. So far the WLP is the winner. But Es and Sd aren't up to par. I may have to lower my standards.

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Originally Posted by nitro-express

With the supply shortages we are experiencing I got out my 452AA and am loading some 44-40 ammo. Having an issue with position sensitivity. I'm testing with different primers. So far the WLP is the winner. But Es and Sd aren't up to par. I may have to lower my standards.

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I am loading 6.6 grains of 452AA in the .44-40 with the Accurate 43-206H bullet cast 1 to 30 tin-lead, sized .430in Starline brass with WLP primer. In my 1925 Colt New Service with 5-1/2" barrel and 0.008" cylinder gap velocity is 916 fps with Sd 16 fps and ES 39 fps.

In my 1905 Colt SA 5-1/2" with 0.010" cylinder gap the same load gives 887 fps with Sd 28 fps and ES 64 fps.

In 1919 Winchester '92 carbine 1079 fps, Sd 12 and ES 37

You don't say which gun you are shooting, but some of the modern Colt clones which have lightened action to ease cocking effort and lighten trigger pull do not have adequate hammer throw to produce uniform velocities with modern primers. My pre-WW2 Colts all have a minimum of 0.032" driven protrusion with hammer down and produce 0.016-0.018" indent on copper following the government test procedure, compared to the 0.012" copper indent spec for the M9 pistol.

Tweaked Cowboy competition guns I have checked frequently fail to produce 0.010" copper indent, and without knowing your gun this is a common cause of the problem you described.

Still have bout 5 pounds of it for my 45's and 38's.