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My 19 year old wants to get into these matches at a local range.
100-200 yard ranges. I have the typical Mauser style rifles and Swiss straight pulls.
He’s looking at the vintage websites but I thought I would ask here for rifle and ammo recommendations. Our 1903A3 has the best sight but the bore is rough and affects accuracy. I also have a #4 and 1917 Enfield I just received. Any other tips or gear recommendations appreciated.
Any of those would work fine. He will also probably want a shooting mat and spotting scope at some point. You will need a sling and glove/mitt for the support hand. Oh yeah, lots of ammo for practice!
The 03A3 is probably the best out of the box rifle due to its peep sight, but the Swiss K31, Finnish M39 and M28/30 are also strong contenders for a young shooter with good eyes who can see the open sights.
The U.S. Model 1917 would be hard to beat also. I have had several and they were all very accurate. james
I agree I could shoot just about everything well at 19 ! Which gun can he shoot best now ? I'd let him pick which he's comfortable shooting in all positions and which he can reload the quickest . All you mentioned can be competitive . Personally I'd find a new barrel to screw on the O3A3 and put it in a C stock .Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75
Thanks all,
I might look for a barrel for the A3, it’s a referb with a Corona receiver/barrel and a Rem bolt. We will reload his ammo, Shouldn’t be too hard for only 200yards. In the meantime he can use the K31 or 98k to have fun with. I wish I had his eyes! He will need a lot of work with the standing shooting tho.
my 2 cents - go with the '06, it's just a bit cheaper. the '17 will suck up a lot more recoil, but I don't like cock on closing. I think the '03 has the smoothest action os those mentioned, straight pull not included. Barrels or the 03A3 are around, or get one mounted up if he show interest and stick with it. I'll check my closet.
Someone here mentioned to get a used Bausch & Lomb spotting scope so he is looking on the internet for that.
Yes,,The easiest would be the 06,,At least for reloading.
I would install a Criterion barrel on the 03A3 and call it a day. Those barrels are superb, IMO, based on having a couple rifles with them on. One in particular (on a put-together 1903A1) shoots as well, and sometimes better, than the pristine star gauged barrel on my 1903A1 National Match.
I like 'em all, but think I'd go with gnoahhh's advice. L.E. No.4s, 1917s, K31s, all good! :D
An after thought--since you're open to suggestions, maybe an M1 or M1A?
My #4 really likes 174gr HPBT Sierra Matchkings. I use 168gr Sierra Matchkings for my M1 and 1903. Practice in the standing position will do a lot to help scores. Work on fundamentals, sight picture, trigger, follow thru. Learn to call your shot. Rapid fire most new shooters rush too much. After shooting rapid for a bit you will realize you have lots of time.
I try to keep Milsurps original military if I can tho. I'm not a purist, but have been lucky keeping them original.
I guess this is an arsenal rebuild anyway. I may look into a aftermarket barrel.
Nothing saying you have to throw an original barrel in the garbage can. Keep it for posterity, to be re-installed on the gun if "originality" is called for some day for some reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by FabMan
I have owned and shot all of those you have mentioned. My #4's and 1917's have been so-so in the accuracy department, and while I absolutely love my 03A3's, especially with their aperture sights, the K-31's are far and away the most accurate military rifles I've ever fired. In fact using cast bullets and firing High Power on the reduced (100 yd.) course, I attained an Expert classification in less than a years time with a K-31.
https://i.imgur.com/YQptjKHl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/buKlGNHl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bNixHxil.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qzSOcGgl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4p6Z0Tll.jpg
In addition to their accuracy, the straight pull is extremely fast to manipulate.
19 year old eyes should have no problem with the tangent sights.
35W
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Rifles-Article
The above link has some very good info, I think, and for 1-200 yards you really don't need the full power of a .30-06.
I like the Model 1917, but windage adjustment is its downfall for target shooting. Unless you can find and legally use one of the Parker Hale aperture sights for it.
Robert
If you are reloading for a bolt action, you can use a light bullet and light powder charge to reduce recoil quite a bit. It will help in the rapids and help to not bet him up. Keep in mind that a match is 50 shots.
If he shoots the K-31, the first 5 rounds can be loaded in the magazine. There is a Swiss charger that will hold the other 5 rounds for a quick reload. I am not sure how common they are.
Ive mentioned this a few times. Try the old 300 meter load. 125 gr Sierra flatbased bullet and any case or primer. start at about 36 grains IMR4895 and don't exceed 40 grs max. I shot this in an old Smith Corona and was like shooting a match rifle. Some of the members here related they were basically doing the same thing. May have to do some sight adjusting with the different yardages. Frank
Yep that's where most matches are won or lost . If the recoil is troublesome for him give cast bullets a try. It's only 200 yds so the a nice accurate mid power load is all you need . Heck I shot a few matches with the Lee 155 and 6 grs of Bullseye in my 03a3 and did respectable at 200 ydsQuote:
Originally Posted by FabMan
Depending on where and what type match he may need a cartridge belt to hold clips, a Mdl 1923 or 44 would doAttachment 268871
I remember my dad having one of those belts,,Maybe my brother has it now.
I like the idea of lighter bullets or using cast. Those are great results that were posted.
Impressive using fast burning pistol powder instead of using 2400 or slower powders.
I have a range of 160-200 grain .30 molds.
The O3A3 is his favorite, Maybe not with 50 full powered loads tho.
Right now we are researching the shooting positions and the time you get. Strippers clips are
used so he will have to practice with that too. There not always easy to use.
For right now he will have to use the short Swede Mauser, I have the wooden bullet ammo and can dump
the powder and reload them quick with a reduced load.
I shot my as-issued 03A3 in a couple of matches, but the stripper clips are a bit difficult to use, especially compared to those for the Swiss rifles.
The load first used in my K31 was a 153 gr. FP with a plain base (pictured above). I deliberately loaded it down so as to be subsonic. At our matches the big joke was we had to allow extra time after a string before we scored the targets. The RO's were afraid someone walking to the target stand might get there before the bullet from my last shot! :mrgreen:
35W
I never shot in a real high power match, but I have ran (and shot) an awful lot of rifle qualifications with the M-14.
In my experience, it isn't the recoil that is the problem, it is having a tight sling cut off circulation in your left arm and hand.
Even the old soft GI shooting coats have sufficient padding in the right places to prevent the arm problem, a heavily padded shooting mitt does for the hand.
Robert
Cant use reduced loads here ,must be 90% of military round ME.....this makes the 6.5s popular ,low recoil .
We have an email into the range to get the rules. We Prob need to start there. There are some shooting semi-auto also(M1)
I thought it was just bolt action rifles?
I vote for rebarreling the 03A3 with criterion or Krieger that meets match rules.
I shot CMP with a 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser. It was extremely accurate, easy to reload & recoil was light (similar to a .243). I never tried a load (powder, bullet, primer combination) that didn't shoot well. Initially I disliked the cock on close, but found it much faster in the rapid stage than my 03A3. Also I disliked the straight bolt handle initially. I have another with a turned down bolt. The straight bolt handle is much faster in the rapids & I learned to appreciate it.
However, the guys that always beat me shot K31s.
Your son's eyes are still young so he should be able to do as well with the issue sights on any of those rifles. 20 years ago I won numerous "Military Rifle matches" at Puyalup with my M98, M96 and Finn M38. We shot for score and group.Quote:
Originally Posted by FabMan
Yes, he has 20/20 and shoots irons well. Just need to get organized.We needed a good spotting scope and a shooting mat anyway. He does some IPDA shoots, but this is a different animal.
The internet is full of info on it and everyone seems to have a good time.
Same for meQuote:
Originally Posted by oldhenry
I have shot my Swedish mauser with Soderin rear aperture sight, Remington 1903A3, and Remington 1903 rifles using cast bullets in 100 yard Garand matches and had fun doing it.
The best 100 yard group I've ever shot was with a scoped (yeah, that's cheating) Swiss K-31 that cost me $59.95 delivered, when I had my C&R license. The 5 round group measured .45" CTC. Sold it because I didn't like the offset scope and my old eyes couldn't sort out the open rear sight. If his eyes can handle the sights that would be a great choice.
If not, go with the 03A3. BTW, Swedish Mauser stripper clips work great in those rifles.
Hector
Here is something for shooting at close range.
125 sierra flat based bullet
powder IMR 4895 from 37 to 40 grains max.
Any case any primer except magnum primers not needed.
This load was given to me many years ago from the NRA as a 300 meter load.
Get your sights set for 100 yds then shoot for 200 yds. Light on recoil and very accurate. Don't know if the NRA specifies power levels though. Frank
Now that winter is coming upon us, be a good time to do some dry firing. Make up some dummy rounds to practice the rapid fire stage. Join a local small bore or air rifle league. Next year, attend one of the CMP shooting games that are held around the country. The Small Arms Firing School would be an excellent experience.
Check out the CMP web site, lots of good stuff there; https://thecmp.org/
The CMP sells new barrels for the 03A3 https://estore.thecmp.org/Catalog/Item/065CRI/A3
They have a custom shop that will install it. https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/custom-gunsmithing/
Lots of shooting advise here from the best; https://thecmp.org/training-tech/sho...ce-rifle-team/
Thanks all for the comments. We are looking for another vintage rifle range as the original matches have been discontinued. I’m going to steer him away from IDPA pistol matches for now due to the primer shortage. I can’t see things getting better anytime soon. We did shoot C&B revolvers and he enjoyed that. Still can get caps and BP.
If he enjoyed a CB revolver bet he would like flintlocks too no pesky caps to buy just need a decent rock and I doubt there will ever be a shortage on those