Cigarette Papers

Hi all.

I will start by saying i'm a newbie at paper patching. To date my paper patching experience is 3 "shootable" boolits.

I wanted to have a go at paper patching my .358 Win. I did a bit of research among these forums and learnt enough to commit.

I ordered a mold from Accurate Molds. It's the 35-225P which drops a .351 225gn bullet.

I found some 60GSM tracing paper at the local craft store which mic's at .002". Some locals here (i'm in Australia) tell me to find some 50GSM "bank pads" which are acid free archival quality. I'm still looking for some of that.

I cast some boolits and tried my hand at paper patching for the first time using the tracing paper. After 3-4 hours of trying different patch dimensions, soaking times and rolling techniques i had found the dimensions i needed and managed to produce a whole entire 2 bullets. Rolling the paper on was easy but i stuggled with the tail. Getting it to fold under and not unravel was challenging.

After drying overnight those 2 successfully patched bullets measured .359 - .360 which is what i was hoping for.

So here i am , a couple of days later and a friend was rolling a cigarette. I asked if i could have one of his papers. The paper measured twice the width of my required dimension and about 5/8" longer. It was also only .001" thick so i would need 4 wraps to be the right size.
Then it occurred to me that there's a natural fold down the length of the paper so it can easily doubled. Trimming the 30(ish) degree taper brought it down the to the correct length.
I grabbed a bullet, dunked the paper in water and tried wrapping it.

Wow, compared to the tracing paper the cigarette paper is a dream. I went on straight. Gripped well and the tail folds under flat. It's still drying but the patched bullet is right on .360.

So, is cigarette paper a good material for paper patching smokeless bullets? Please tell me it is.

Attachment 263904

Here is the 2 bullets with tracing paper.
Attachment 263905


And here is the bullet patched with cigarette paper.
Attachment 263906

CW
That’s a good looking boolit and the patching job looks fine. If it’s coming up to .360” I’d load ten rounds and try them. I haven’t tried cigarette paper for patches mainly because tracing paper is easier to find and seems to dry tight and the tails are then easily twisted and clipped off. I am pretty sure cig. Paper has been tried but not sure of the results. Good luck with it!

I think cigarette paper is too thin unless you wrap it more than one revolution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smithnframe

I think cigarette paper is too thin unless you wrap it more than one revolution.

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Yes, that's why i folded it lengthwise, effectively doubling it so i have 4 layers when wrapped twice.

I wrap for BP rounds 45, 40, 38 calibers. I wrap with cole paper about .002 thick.2 wraps at bore dia so they can be loaded long, only 1/8" of the bullet is in the case.
I also wrap dry. Ill give some techniques now

Finding the right length of patch:
cut a strip of paper the correct width and 6" plus length.
wrap 3 times around bullet
with a razor blade or xacto knife cut a nick thru all 3 layers 1/8" - 1/4" on one edge is plenty
the distance between 2 nicks is the patch length complete and unstretched
subtract 1/32 from this to allow for stretch and the small radius where 1 layer overlaps the edge.
Glue this to a piece of sheet metl and cut file for template.

Wrapping the bullet:
I wrap dry and no tail. there is a .100 or slightly smaller dia of the base showing in the center of the base
Wrap tight and carefully roll the fold under onto the base forming a smooth layered base.
This base is very square releases well and is easy to do

A patching board makes this easy and consistant.

You want 2 wraps of paper around the bullet in a continuous length fold in half dosnt release as well and may leave a ridge at the base. Te patch should be snug and right around bullet but not stretched to tight.

When shooting you want to see a cloud of confetti at the muzzle this is the outer wrap and then as close as possible to the muzzle ( on a calm day) you should find the under wrap with rifling engravings and the fold under intact. Finding these can tell you a lot about how the load is performing. When all is good and right the patch comes off at muzzle and bullet travels on with no distortions.

On the patch I like an angle that gives 1/2 wrap in its length. Cant say it makes any difference but it seems more balanced

I have read of cigarette paper being used to patch cast. I have wrapped some .338 cast to 377 for my 375 Whelen, I used green printer paper and patched them wet, I just twist the tails and when dry I lubed and run them through a Lee sizer. I have not fired them but I can tell you the paper took some removing when dry. My understanding is that you use a bullet and paper combination that will allow you to use the fattest wrapped bullet that will chamber and let the bore do the sizing. Regards Stephen

Yes, as fat as will chamber and seat into an unsized neck. Of course that does not mean the cig paper patching won't work. I would think three or four wraps rather than folding double but again, one can never know until one tries them. I did try cig paper when I started patching but I don't remember the results.

I ended up using cheap printer paper because of its compressiveness which made for easy and firm seating in an unsized neck or lined notepad paper which gave me very good results in one rifle. I too adopted the dry wrapping, using a twisting between thumbs and forefingers to get the patch real tight and rolled over the base leaving a small 'eye'. I also used tail-les patches that seemed to work just fine.

Example of a dry wrap with rolled over tail. This works best with cheap printer paper.
https://i.postimg.cc/rF3Bnr5z/MVC-781-F-2.jpg

Recovered tail wrap - notepad paper folds rather than rolls over.
https://i.postimg.cc/CLtDBPYd/Base-Ring.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/sD8f9bMd/001.jpg

I can't seem to find pics of cig paper patches. I did find a note saying a particular load with cig paper appears to be accurate. It was a 303 Brit loaded with a 245gr smooth side over 37gr H4350.

Found a pic of a loaded cig paper patch
https://i.postimg.cc/Dwcw4n5Y/MVC-904F.jpg

I also found those curler papers that the girls use or did at one time for hair perms, worked very well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brstevns

I also found those curler papers that the girls use or did at one time for hair perms, worked very well

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I rushed out to a beauty store and probably paid too much for enough wrappings for ten million billion bullets. Perm papers: https://www.amazon.com/perm-end-pape...erm+end+papers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nelsonted1

I rushed out to a beauty store and probably paid too much for enough wrappings for ten million billion bullets. Perm papers: https://www.amazon.com/perm-end-pape...erm+end+papers

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That there is plain funny. I gotta start paper patching.

Slim

I used them to patch for a 7mm Rolling Block with a over size bore. They really helped.

it's all about finding the right thickness, and strength, of patching paper to make the bullet in question to be wrapped fit the lands or grooves, and yield acceptable consistent accuracy. testing beats words and theory. there are LOTS of PPB things to test out. have at it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CamoWhamo

Hi all.

I will start by saying i'm a newbie at paper patching. To date my paper patching experience is 3 "shootable" boolits.

I wanted to have a go at paper patching my .358 Win. I did a bit of research among these forums and learnt enough to commit.

I ordered a mold from Accurate Molds. It's the 35-225P which drops a .351 225gn bullet.

I found some 60GSM tracing paper at the local craft store which mic's at .002". Some locals here (i'm in Australia) tell me to find some 50GSM "bank pads" which are acid free archival quality. I'm still looking for some of that.

I cast some boolits and tried my hand at paper patching for the first time using the tracing paper. After 3-4 hours of trying different patch dimensions, soaking times and rolling techniques i had found the dimensions i needed and managed to produce a whole entire 2 bullets. Rolling the paper on was easy but i stuggled with the tail. Getting it to fold under and not unravel was challenging.

After drying overnight those 2 successfully patched bullets measured .359 - .360 which is what i was hoping for.

So here i am , a couple of days later and a friend was rolling a cigarette. I asked if i could have one of his papers. The paper measured twice the width of my required dimension and about 5/8" longer. It was also only .001" thick so i would need 4 wraps to be the right size.
Then it occurred to me that there's a natural fold down the length of the paper so it can easily doubled. Trimming the 30(ish) degree taper brought it down the to the correct length.
I grabbed a bullet, dunked the paper in water and tried wrapping it.

Wow, compared to the tracing paper the cigarette paper is a dream. I went on straight. Gripped well and the tail folds under flat. It's still drying but the patched bullet is right on .360.

So, is cigarette paper a good material for paper patching smokeless bullets? Please tell me it is.

Attachment 263904

Here is the 2 bullets with tracing paper.
Attachment 263905


And here is the bullet patched with cigarette paper.
Attachment 263906

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So how are those working for you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nelsonted1

I rushed out to a beauty store and probably paid too much for enough wrappings for ten million billion bullets. Perm papers: https://www.amazon.com/perm-end-pape...erm+end+papers

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I use these same papers for making my combustible cartridges for my cap and ball revolver.

Zig Zag Cigarette paper and a slant breech Sharps carbine are the bee's knees

Mike

9# onion skin with 25%+ rag content works quite well for me. .0025 dry and after wetting for application it will dry to .002”.

Dress pattern paper works also, but is quite thin. Expect .0015” dry.

From the title, I thought you were going to talk about paper cartridges!

https://i.imgur.com/a2DR8es.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vKm8YMP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tT1tiIN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RENinxM.jpg

With the current shortage on just about anything shooting related, it's about time I stop screwing around and try paper patching. I'm impressed with the results I see and it's one more method that doesn't depend on an outside source. I think I'll try the cigarette paper method first.

FWIW, cigarette paper is very high in sheet ash, about 25-30% calcium carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is added to the cigarette paper in high levels to slow and control the burn of the paper on lit cigarettes.

I started using cig papers for my 30-30 years ago.
I would partially neck size the case and with bore + 1 thou.
A doubled over tallyho cig paper would bring it up to 309"
So they worked well being just diameter in a sloppy chamber when nestled into the rifling.
It depended on getting everything concentric as much as possible.

When I patch now I just patch to a fired case and fill things up as much as possible.
My accuracy is easy minute of pig at 100-150 yards.
Haven’t shot one but should make them have a bad day.
I’ve used every powder from bullseye to adi2208 which seems to fertilise the grass too as well as shooting.(more come to eat the grass I shoot fertilize the grass etc etc)
I’m just running soft lead flat points of 170 grn at @ 1500fps. Should do nicely at 100 yards on pigs and easier on the shoulders.

Try everything and you will find something that works for you.
17-1900 fps is pretty easy to achieve good accuracy.
Put a 150 or 170 grain pill where it needs to go and all should be fine.
Many ways to skin this cat.
I only do it because I only use a bit of paper and don’t have to be scientific about alloys and what nots and it works once you get past the crash and burn stage.

You know they only stopped producing pp bullets because of labour costs.

A couple of patches of reds red and I’ve cleaned my gun still next time.

With the right mould and paper you can virtually load with only a means to de-reprime cases. No expensive dies needed to work and worry your brass with.
They last heaps longer that way.

I’ve heard it said that it’s probably what the old time buffalo hunters used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE

I’ve heard it said that it’s probably what the old time buffalo hunters used.

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I used to run the James D. Julia Auction House firearms division. One of our firearms consultants was the late Frank Sellers, who wrote the definitive book on Sharps rifles.
https://www.amazon.com/Sharps-Firear.../dp/0960812202

MANY years ago, I had a conversation with him about paper patch bullets. He said the paper used for paper patching back in the peak of buffalo hunting was along the line of bank note paper, almost the opposite of cigarette paper.

Bank note paper is very strong and durable (paper money is designed to withstand A LOT of handling and use). It has low ash, highly sized ( water resistance), and high percentage of long ( strong) fiber.

Cigarette paper has minimal ( none) sizing ( water resistance), high ash content, and is designed for one-time use ( smoking/burning)...not durable.

Why in the world would buffalo hunters, out in the wilds and elements, use a paper patch that has very low durability (cigarette paper)?

I thought that they would prefer bible paper as they were printed on good paper.
They could of helped spread the good word around.
Maybe.

More likely just bought a big box full of patched bullets and powder and such to last the trip out.

In its heyday the Sharps factory employed scores of young ladies (12-16) to roll paper patched boolits. In my readings I have found concrete evidence that the factory "naked boolits" were only loaded for the Govt 45-70 ammunition.

Rich