RCBS .45 ACP Shotshell dies. Finally got a complete set.

I watched MJ's videos (ammo channel) a few years ago when I first started reloading about making 45 ACP Shotshells from .308 brass, and both methods he used.
He had a set of rcbs dies (56552), and the case form/trim die (58378) that he custom ordered from RCBS.
He also detailed a method of using the Lyman 41 mag die set to make 45 Shotshells that are every bit as good as the rcbs method.

I got interested in this process again after a few years of reloading and after diving into casting. I wanted to give it a try.
I called an online rcbs dealer to order a set of dies ($169 for the three die set and $96 for the form die and shell holder) and I was told rcbs does not make custom dies anymore. I called rcbs and this was confirmed. No luck. This was going to take some effort. And probably be expensive.

So I went to the auction site and searched for a set. Nothing was to be found. Even looking at old previous sales there was nothing recent. It's been a few years since a set has sold on there. It looks like the guys who had the foresight to buy them tend to hold on to them.
I did some deep web searching, and still could not find any for sale. Just cached listings of items sold long ago. I saved a search for 45 Shotshell dies on the bay to see what popped up.

The next logical step was to use the other proven method and get some 41 mag dies. Found some on the bay and placed the minium bid plus a few bucks. I won the dies and paid for them.
Shipping was going to take a few days. Two days after buying the 41 mag dies, a member posted a set of Rcbs Shotshell dies in swapping and selling. I jumped on them as soon as I read the ad. Later that day I was a little confused because the part number was different (55000), but after a little research I found that these were the correct dies, just an old part number.

This was only the three die set, not the case form/trim die. I was assured by the seller that these dies will still produce good Shotshells without the initial case form die. I tried them out and had success. Made good Shotshells from both .308 brass and .45 Magnum brass. I was still on the lookout for a case form die and extended shell holder.

If Shotshells can be produced with the three die set, and without the use of the case form die, what are the odds that someone will have a case form die for sale, without the three die set? Not very likely at all. If I see one I will have to make sure I get it.

A few months later, after playing with the Shotshells for a while, that saved search from the bay came through for me. Someone had an auction for a case form die and no 3 die set. These things aren't made anymore, and I need it, so I made my top bid very high. Insanely high. I landed the case form and Tim die with the extended shell holder.
It showed up last night. Tried it out and it works great. It starts the forming process and the sizing die finishes it. It should prolong the life of the brass forming in two steps instead of one. I feel fitter, happier, more complete. But at the same time, I feel guilty because I can only imagine I was bidding against a few of my fellow forum members. If you guys were bidding, and I beat you out, I apologise. I will get some good use out of them.

I have not tried the Lyman 41 mag dies yet. The rcbs dies shipped flat rate and arrived the same day as the Lyman dies. I still need to try them out.
I am wondering if they would benefit from using the case form die first, and then the sizing die to form. I will report back later.

I tried out the Shotshells on a pumpkin on Thanksgiving. They shot great, but stopped short of completely cycling the action on my sig p220. I used the starting charge of 700x and will have to bump it up a bit. They were also a hair too long to feed reliably every round from the sig mag. Trimming a little shorter should solve this. I am going to buy a 1911 just to have fun with these.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61392814c4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...903b9d513a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f051f67737.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9cccb21f23.jpg

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They look like long 400 Corbon empty s that I made years back . They sure turned out nice looking

Funny, I just got mine out a couple days ago to load some for the spring. The first step is for the dies to acclimate to being in a new spot in the shop, that’ll probably take a few weeks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimB..

Funny, I just got mine out a couple days ago to load some for the spring. The first step is for the dies to acclimate to being in a new spot in the shop, that’ll probably take a few weeks.

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That's funny. So true

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Well I setup a cutoff wheel in the drill press and used it to cut a few pieces of brass to length. Didn’t get the consistency that I expected, will figure that out in the morning. Dies are really dirty with old dried up lube, so took them apart and will put them in the ultrasonic in the morning. This was all prompted by the need to clean some fountain pen parts and I didn’t want to heat up the tank just for that.

I was thinking about getting one of these 3d printed jigs for cutting with the HF chopsaw. Has anyone tried these?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...959c4f032d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b51e219f94.jpg

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The member I bought my dies from included this other crimping die. It gives an interesting result and crimps in a shape that more resembles the profile of a bullet. It feeds much better in my sig, but I have not shot it yet. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...112bec0bf3.jpg

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That looks like a swaging hollowpointing die.

I bought the whole five die set and a bunch of formed brass from a local guy last year for $50.00, along with a 1911 barrel that he's smoothed most of the rifling out of. The rifling is still visible, so it's still a pistol barrel. I've formed a few cases from .308 and .243 brass, but haven't really messed with the dies much. The fifth die is a file trim die.

The notched die above is either one of BT Snipers notching dies, or a CH-4D blank forming die. I've got both and they work pretty slick for their intended purposes.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Who is producing that 3D printed HF chop saw jig? Do you have a link?

I have the RCBS .45 ACP shotshell set too. Bought it years at a gun show for a pittance. My Colt Government model cycles just fine using the recommended load of 231 Winchester with the cut down Remington .410 wad ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reverend Al

Who is producing that 3D printed HF chop saw jig? Do you have a link?

I have the RCBS .45 ACP shotshell set too. Bought it years at a gun show for a pittance. My Colt Government model cycles just fine using the recommended load of 231 Winchester with the cut down Remington .410 wad ...

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If you do a 'google' for .45acp trim die you get to here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/7196730...iABEgJ7EPD_BwE

you can peruse to your hearts content!

OK, found it ... thanks! (But of course as is typical for cross border shipping these days the item is $11.99 and the mandatory "International Priority" shipping is $18 to $20 US!)

[smilie=b:

I believe reloader Fred is correct, and that is a CH4D die. The seller mentioned that.
I have not tried to make any blanks, but it does work on the Shotshell, and makes a rounder profile that feeds better in my Sig 220.
I really need to get out and try some of the star crimped ones.

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There is a complete set on eBay right now
Forming and trim die, and the three die set.
They are full price though

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jessdigs

I watched MJ's videos (ammo channel) a few years ago when I first started reloading about making 45 ACP Shotshells from .308 brass, and both methods he used.
He had a set of rcbs dies (56552), and the case form/trim die (58378) that he custom ordered from RCBS.
He also detailed a method of using the Lyman 41 mag die set to make 45 Shotshells that are every bit as good as the rcbs method.

I got interested in this process again after a few years of reloading and after diving into casting. I wanted to give it a try.
I called an online rcbs dealer to order a set of dies ($169 for the three die set and $96 for the form die and shell holder) and I was told rcbs does not make custom dies anymore. I called rcbs and this was confirmed. No luck. This was going to take some effort. And probably be expensive.

So I went to the auction site and searched for a set. Nothing was to be found. Even looking at old previous sales there was nothing recent. It's been a few years since a set has sold on there. It looks like the guys who had the foresight to buy them tend to hold on to them.
I did some deep web searching, and still could not find any for sale. Just cached listings of items sold long ago. I saved a search for 45 Shotshell dies on the bay to see what popped up.

The next logical step was to use the other proven method and get some 41 mag dies. Found some on the bay and placed the minium bid plus a few bucks. I won the dies and paid for them.
Shipping was going to take a few days. Two days after buying the 41 mag dies, a member posted a set of Rcbs Shotshell dies in swapping and selling. I jumped on them as soon as I read the ad. Later that day I was a little confused because the part number was different (55000), but after a little research I found that these were the correct dies, just an old part number.

This was only the three die set, not the case form/trim die. I was assured by the seller that these dies will still produce good Shotshells without the initial case form die. I tried them out and had success. Made good Shotshells from both .308 brass and .45 Magnum brass. I was still on the lookout for a case form die and extended shell holder.

If Shotshells can be produced with the three die set, and without the use of the case form die, what are the odds that someone will have a case form die for sale, without the three die set? Not very likely at all. If I see one I will have to make sure I get it.

A few months later, after playing with the Shotshells for a while, that saved search from the bay came through for me. Someone had an auction for a case form die and no 3 die set. These things aren't made anymore, and I need it, so I made my top bid very high. Insanely high. I landed the case form and Tim die with the extended shell holder.
It showed up last night. Tried it out and it works great. It starts the forming process and the sizing die finishes it. It should prolong the life of the brass forming in two steps instead of one. I feel fitter, happier, more complete. But at the same time, I feel guilty because I can only imagine I was bidding against a few of my fellow forum members. If you guys were bidding, and I beat you out, I apologise. I will get some good use out of them.

I have not tried the Lyman 41 mag dies yet. The rcbs dies shipped flat rate and arrived the same day as the Lyman dies. I still need to try them out.
I am wondering if they would benefit from using the case form die first, and then the sizing die to form. I will report back later.

I tried out the Shotshells on a pumpkin on Thanksgiving. They shot great, but stopped short of completely cycling the action on my sig p220. I used the starting charge of 700x and will have to bump it up a bit. They were also a hair too long to feed reliably every round from the sig mag. Trimming a little shorter should solve this. I am going to buy a 1911 just to have fun with these.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61392814c4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...903b9d513a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f051f67737.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9cccb21f23.jpg

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Don't bump the starting charge of 700X up.My instructions say if it won't cycle, then reduce the charge .This will lower the pressure and release the shell forward part from the rifling where it is expanded and momentarily stuck.
Anyway. Try a couple lower charges, which is the opposite of what you might think.
Also, being too long is also a hindrance. Try a shorter shell first, and see if that allows it to cycle, but only try one thing at a time.Then try a slightly reduced charge next.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alferd Packer

Don't bump the starting charge of 700X up.My instructions say if it won't cycle, then reduce the charge .This will lower the pressure and release the shell forward part from the rifling where it is expanded and momentarily stuck.
Anyway. Try a couple lower charges, which is the opposite of what you might think.
Also, being too long is also a hindrance. Try a shorter shell first, and see if that allows it to cycle, but only try one thing at a time.Then try a slightly reduced charge next.

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I will try lowering the charge. I haven't tried going up or down yet.
I am already trimming them quite short to feed in my sig 220 magazine, but can try that also.

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I use WW 231 in my shotshells. Got my dies about 30 years ago

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockrat

I use WW 231 in my shotshells. Got my dies about 30 years ago

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I don't have win 231, but I do have hp38. Aren't they the same?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jessdigs

I don't have win 231, but I do have hp38. Aren't they the same?

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Yes, they're the very same powder according to Hodgdon's website, and my usage.

Hope this helps.

Fred

I made a video of the 3d printed jig for cutting .308 brass down to .45 Shotshell.
I got mine a few days ago.
I only tried the pipe cutter once, and it wasn't the best pipe cutter, but I like the results of this better. Seems easier, easier than the hacksaw and file too.

Plus, the chopsaw works great for .300 bo when I get around to starting on that.
https://youtu.be/lwgsdNWGRRA

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Thanks for the link to Etsy, Also order the cutting jig for cutting down 410 3" to 2 1/2".

Congratulations on the shot shell die set.

If I may ask several questions:

I watched the video on making the shot shell cases from 308 brass and I'm good with cutting it down. One question is anyone making their own cardboard wads to cover the powder and to cover the #7.5 shot?

Another question ..has anyone tried 40 cal dies for the full length resizing/ making the shoulder or taper down portion? The reason is I have 40cal/10 mm dies and I don't have 41 mag dies and there is .010 inside diameter difference between the 40 cal and the 41 mag.

Any help here would be appreciated.

I used a plastic .410 wad so I didn't have to worry about the over powder wad, a bag of 500 will last years.

To seal the end of the case, I have cut wads from a Coke twelve pack using a sharpened case in a drill and .35 cal gaschecks. I think the gaschecks are easier and I don't go through all that many shotshells that the cost is worrysome.

Robert

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 6bg6ga

Congratulations on the shot shell die set.

If I may ask several questions:

I watched the video on making the shot shell cases from 308 brass and I'm good with cutting it down. One question is anyone making their own cardboard wads to cover the powder and to cover the #7.5 shot?

Another question ..has anyone tried 40 cal dies for the full length resizing/ making the shoulder or taper down portion? The reason is I have 40cal/10 mm dies and I don't have 41 mag dies and there is .010 inside diameter difference between the 40 cal and the 41 mag.

Any help here would be appreciated.

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Lots of people sharpen a case to cut cardboard wads from cci primer boxes or similar

As far as using .40 dies, grumpa does it that way and here is his thread, but i got my Lyman 41 mag dies for $15 shipped on eeeeeeebaye so they are common and cheap.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hells-(My-Way)


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Several questions yet.

Where do you get 6 or 7.5 shot cheaply? Do you use steel or lead or just what is available? Does shooting shot shells hurt the barrel or lead it? Haven't found any 6 or 7.5 shot reasonably priced and since I only want to make maybe 50 or so of these things I don't need 25lbs of shot or 500 wads.


Read the thread about using 40 cal dies and I'm set there. Does anyone change the recoil spring to a lighter one so the 1911 will cycle?

I don't think you can buy shot cheaply anymore. What I did when I wanted some #9 shot for my .45 loads was to buy the cheapest box of 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge lead shot I could find and disassembled a few rounds as needed.

I would not use steel shot. No leading using .410 plastic wads, they are trimmed to just under the case mouth.

Robert

I have all the shot i need for these, but i would consider buying bismuth shot from rotometals if i just needed a little bit.


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Yep a lot of sticker shock when buying shot. Finished up a 25# bag of 9# shot that was marked $20.95. New bag was $39.95 at local Gun Store?

Boy, I'm looking for a set of these dies and I'm finding out they seem to be as rare as hens teeth. LOL

I made shotshells many years ago for my 1911, loaded them with #9 shot. I already had 41 M dies and a copper tube cutter so I made a dozen or so. They worked fine but I preferred using my 357 M with gas checks for over/under wads. I also used some in the 41 but got the same basic result from the 357 so I stuck with it.

In the Mojave desert, going rattlesnake hunting was fun and I miss that. I moved to the Redwoods near the CA/OR border and had to contend with possum, raccoons, and rats. The rats were so thick I shot/trapped/killed 6 or 7 an evening for 4 months straight. I had 3 /12 acres so shooting wasn't so much of a problem, but the amount of shooting I did irritated the neighbors so I switched to a pellet rifle. Still lots of fun. I still carried a 2 shot 38 derringer with snakeshot in the watch pocket of my Levi's whenever I was gardening or tending the rabbits and chickens. The occasional shot didn't bug the neighbors as I told them I wouldn't shoot rats anymore, just possum, skunk, and raccoon.

Oh, I started making my own gas checks, 35 and 45, plain based and regular, and the plain base type made from soda can work great.

The Jig works Great and is really worth the little money it costs. Saves time and trims all the same lenght.

I found a rcbs .45 shotshell die set at a huge fleamarket 20 plus years ago. Used it to build snake loads. Worked fine in my fullsized 1911s. Anyway I’ve been whacking those destructive borer bees around my deck and barn/shop with a badminton racket but I had my .45 ar pistol out plinking off my deck and decided to try a shot shell to execute one. At 3 feet the bee didn’t stand a chance. I whacked over 600 two years ago but only a couple hundred last year, I’m up to 350 this year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baltimoreed

I found a rcbs .45 shotshell die set at a huge fleamarket 20 plus years ago. Used it to build snake loads. Worked fine in my fullsized 1911s. Anyway I’ve been whacking those destructive borer bees around my deck and barn/shop with a badminton racket but I had my .45 ar pistol out plinking off my deck and decided to try a shot shell to execute one. At 3 feet the bee didn’t stand a chance. I whacked over 600 two years ago but only a couple hundred last year, I’m up to 350 this year.

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I just reread your post and realized you said .45 AR pistol. That would be a lot of fun running around shooting nuisance bees with an AR pistol.

I put a laser sight on my salt gun and it made a big difference. An AR pistol would be a blast.

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Built mine using the new cmmg rotary bolt and their 9 inch bbl, turned out great.