357 Lever Guns help me choose

Am considering getting a 357 carbine / rifle . Was recently looking at 180gr loads for a 180 WFN . 1100-1200 from my 6.5 '' RBH vs 1700-1800 from a longer tube got my attention . So I'm trying to find out what's available & more important what to avoid . I do cast & tend to shoot lead when / where possible . I also want to be able to mount optics .
So far it seems my best choices in a lever gun are either Marlin , Win 94AE or Henry . While we know that a micro groove can shoot lead well I'd prefer to avoid a micro groove barrel as that would most likely involve new moulds etc to get an oversize bullet . Models that might work are the Henry Big Boy Steel & the 1894C , 1894CP , 1894 CSS , 1894 CSBL , 1894 CB & the CB Ltd . Marlins listed are ballard rifled supposedly . I have no preference on finish . I want something that'll launch a 180gr LBT WFN fast enough to be a viable hunting load @ 100 yds.
I'm leaning toward a 16 to 18 inch barrel for ease of handling . The Henry is heavier , maybe too heavy . So any info , suggestions would be appreciated . I just read an article by Glen Fryxell about microgroove barrels . He stated that the specs for 357 is a groove diameter of .3577" . I have 3 revolvers in 357 , 3 in 38 special . Other than the 2 Colt OMM which like sizing to .356 the rest like .358 . If I have to go with a .360 bullet it will increase my costs . Still doable but the water just got deeper .

The decision certainly has to be made by you-- so just some thoughts.
Personally, I dislike the entire idea of a 100 yd. .357 Mag. deer rifle. But, since it's a "free country".......
I once had a micro-groove barrel Marlin .357 Mag. carbine. Very accurate at 50 yds. using almost anything. I saw one the other day on the internet in nice condition with a price of $800....
Ballard-type rifling has always been good.
Heavier bullets fired at hot velocities almost always give heavier recoil, so the heavier Henry might be a good choice as heavy usually means less felt recoil.
Both Marlin and Henry can be scoped.
Think I'd buy a .30-30.......:-D

My vote would be a Marlin first then the Winchester. Henry just doesn't excite me at all

I have a Henry BBS in 357 with a 20" barrel. I love it. It is a little heavier but carries well, and the extra weight helps steady me. The action is very smooth, but has to be run full stroke. I use a Lee 358-158-rf powdercoated and sized .358. But they weigh 168gr. My bbs doesnt know what jacketed is.

To be honest I shoot more 38s than 357, both feed well, and group well. POI is significant difference, but Henry has that figured out. Put the rear sight all the way down for 357 and its right on. Go up one notch for 38s and you have a 6 oclock hold. Trigger was a little gritty but I was able to polish it up and with more use has gotten nice.

I hunt in the brush and dense dark timber, so I havent installed optics.

I dont know if that WFN will cycle thru the action. If you want to send a few id check it out. At least you would know before your purchase.

I owned a marlin 336 in 30-30 in the past, I hated how the loading gate pinched my fingers. I had a case of temporary stupid and sold it for somethin else i had to have. This Henry I shoot more than anything else by a lot. Its not goin anywhere. And those family and friend shoots, it doesnt get set down, the ladies love the firepower available, with managable recoil.

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Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager

The decision certainly has to be made by you-- so just some thoughts.
Personally, I dislike the entire idea of a 100 yd. .357 Mag. deer rifle. But, since it's a "free country".......
I once had a micro-groove barrel Marlin .357 Mag. carbine. Very accurate at 50 yds. using almost anything. I saw one the other day on the internet in nice condition with a price of $800....
Ballard-type rifling has always been good.
Heavier bullets fired at hot velocities almost always give heavier recoil, so the heavier Henry might be a good choice as heavy usually means less felt recoil.
Both Marlin and Henry can be scoped.
Think I'd buy a .30-30.......:-D

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Agree with DG. Makes little sense to buy a .357 to hunt with unless you are in caliber/cartridge restricted zone. I have three .38/.357 lever actions and they are great fun and predator guns. I can kill a deer with them...but why? I have better choices. If you want to hunt get the .30/30, .32 Spl, or .35 Rem.

If you set on getting a .357, I have had 7 pistol caliber lever actions and prefer the Marlin 1894. Easy to scope, easy to take down, easy to clean, cycle well and can be smoothed up easily if you need to go faster, plus they are accurate.

Marlin

I think the 357 will do for anything east of the Mississippi at our normal hunting ranges. 30-30 would be better with jacketed, but not with cast. Get the Henry.
Tony

I’ve got an 1894 CSBL and have really been enjoying it. I smoothed a few sharp edges in the loading port and that’s it.

Little more info to keep this in perspective . I was going to load up some 180 loads for my RBH . I saw the same bullet could gain a 50% increase in velocity from a longer tube . While I wouldn't be using them on deer , I believe they'd work fine on feral hogs . Deer around here aint worth shootin' . Some of the feral dogs are bigger . I also think it would be handy for all kinds of pest eradication . I do have a BBS in 41 mag which I like . It's 8.5lbs , perhaps a swelte 357 carbine will tip the scales less .

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My only .357 long gun is a 16" Rossi Model 92 Big Loop carbine (I traded for & dropped in a standard loop for the big loop), so I have no dog in this hunt...…


https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImag...wm_3071673.jpg

I love my Henry BB it's heavy but very good shooter.

Had Good Luck with My Kids 1894CS, the Saeco # 354 - 180gr FP GC over a stout load of 2400. Light as a feather, did a lot of Jackrabbit Stomping back in the day. Takes a Williams FP Receiver sight or Low Power scope.

Hello boatbum101,

The Model 94 Marlin and the Model 92 Winchester were designed for Short Cartridges, the Model 94 Winchester was designed for Medium Length Cartridges. I know Winchester did make their 94 in both .357 & 44 Mag, but I also heard of feeding issues on them. I can't comment on the Henry Rifles.
The Model 92 is manufactured by Rossi, Miroku, and probably Uberti. I can't say which is better, I have a pre-safety Rossi which I love. My Son has a Marlin 94 Cowboy which is a fine rifle also.

AntiqueSledMan.

From what I've been able to determine the 73 action won't be strong enough for full pressure hunting loads . 92 action optics mounting is problematic . Yes they're slick & the Miroku & Uberti rifles are gorgeous . Not to mention pricey . I'm thinking the Marlin 94 or the Henry would be a more practical choice . I'm in the process of looking & doing my homework . I have some guns I was considering selling & was going to fund this project that way . Once I figure out exactly what I want I can hunt for the right deal . Seems that a used Marlin 1894 in VG condition starts around $ 700 & goes up depending on model / age . Don't see many used Henrys but new ones are available around the same price . I don't want a brass reciever & am indifferent about stainless .

Don't even look at a winchester 94 in .357 mag, had one years ago and it would not feed or it would feed two rounds at once. Last time it jammed I had to take it into the local LGS where I bought it loaded with the 2 jammed rounds. I walked out with another winchester and never looked back.

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Originally Posted by boatbum101

From what I've been able to determine the 73 action won't be strong enough for full pressure hunting loads . 92 action optics mounting is problematic . Yes they're slick & the Miroku & Uberti rifles are gorgeous . Not to mention pricey . I'm thinking the Marlin 94 or the Henry would be a more practical choice . I'm in the process of looking & doing my homework . I have some guns I was considering selling & was going to fund this project that way . Once I figure out exactly what I want I can hunt for the right deal . Seems that a used Marlin 1894 in VG condition starts around $ 700 & goes up depending on model / age . Don't see many used Henrys but new ones are available around the same price . I don't want a brass reciever & am indifferent about stainless .

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I owned all the ones mentioned. If you hunting with it the Marlin 1894 or Henry would work out best. If you hunting in Florida round count will not matter more than 4 and FWC will probably take a dim view on that. Once in battery for me its hard to beat a Henry only thing better is my 357 TC encore with 16.5 in barrel. My 73 cost 1600.00 and would never take the rounds fired from the Henry BB that cost me 450.00 when they first come out.

Just read an article by Glenn Fryxell on the Marlin 1894 . He claims that neither the 358429 crimped in the groove in 357 cases will not feed thru the Marlin . Neither will the LBT 180 WFN . Well this just blows my idea of launching a 180 @ 1700-1800fps . In retrospect he claims the 358156 & the LBT 160 WFN will feed when loaded in 357 cases . I'm wondering if crimped on the front driving band ala S&W N frame if the 358429 would feed . I'm also wondering if the LBT 170 LFN would feed . Guess I need to make some dummies to find out for sure .
My 41 mag Henry will feed both the 410429 @ 1.666" & the LBT 240 LFN @ 1.700 . Perhaps their 357's are cut to larger dimensions than the Marlin . I also think I need to check out different bullets such as the 2 Saeco bullets mentioned & the Ranch Dog designs . If any of you have come up with a heavier cast load that feeds I'm all ears .
I live in the panhandle of Florida . I do not shoot the deer as they're tiny . We do however have a ton of feral hogs , dogs & other pests . For eating size hogs I believe a 180 WFN behind the ear or thru the shoulders would work just fine . For smaller pests the 358156HP works well & is violently explosive when pushed with a stout charge . Not something one would use on edibles .

Hello boatbum101,

We shoot the Lyman 358156 in both my Rossi & my son's Marlin, no feeding issues.

AntiqueSledMan.

Boatbum, I have a Marlin 1894cs that I am shooting the Cast Performance (LBT) 180 WFNGC and crimped in the groove, it feeds like butter. I'm loading with a stout load of H110 and getting 1550 fps. Killed a fat doe very well last week. Glen is right, the 358429 crimped in the groove won't feed. Has to be crimped over the front driving band.

T-Bird , That's good news . Version of the LBT 180 WFNGC I have has a .280 meplat & nose to crimp is .300 . Add case length of 1.290 & I'm right @ max oal of 1.590 so on paper it should feed . If the 358429 will feed crimped on front band also good for me . Also wondering if it'll hold up to the extra speed out of a longer barrel . I'm gonna checkout them Marlin gaschecks IIRC they make them for PB bullets , might help with the Keith SWC .

The new Marlins are running $620-650 hereabouts in KY. I shot one the other day with some hot 170gr sierras, love them and worked slick as snot. He had just bought the rifle new. The wood and fit and finish was first class. He also had a new Rossi he had traded into at the LGS, and it ran like a champ, was smoother than the marlin, and shot the same loads very well, shot some 158 JSP's thru it benched and it wadded them all together at 50 yds.

Groo here
I got away from the henry and don't care for the Winchester 94[got one in 45 colt] type or the marlin [Remmy version][all mine are old Marlins].
You said you wanted a smaller lighter gun than your 41mag [I love them.]
Go with a M-92 action clone like a Rossi[got one in 44], or if your check book can stand it something like a Taylor Alaskin take down [got one in 357].
Those who say a 357 is not good for deer have A not used one, B used the wrong ammo,C hit them in the wrong place[ aim for bone] or D not taken one with a handgun..
Been there ,done that, the 357 is fine with heaver [180] flat nose boolets.
My dad[RIP] took an Ohio deer in his 80th year ,with a 357 Leverevolution out of a S&W TRR8 5 inch [with red dot] at over 60 yds.
Bang,Down..One Round......

I love my Henry BB steel rifle in 357 - butter smooth, shoots cast reloads very well - but different strokes for different folks, Only you can decide what you like best - then get it and have no remorse over your choice. Good luck!

Just want to say Thanks . Y'all have given me some sage advice & food for thought . I really have no brand preference . Seems that the 2 practical choices are Marlin or Henry . Gonna make up some dummy rounds & see if they'll feed . Ought to be able to check locally , if not some here have offered to check for me .

I just bought a 1894 CST. Stainless steel, black furniture, good ghost ring sights, 16.1" barrel with 1/2-28 threads for use with a suppressor. Several on GB.

I've switched my Marlins for Henry's. They just function and usually look much better but a tad heavier. 22, 30/30, 45/70. My son has a brass 44 mag. No more danged pinched fingers.

Henry

A 180gr, .357 bullet launched at 1700fps is not something that any medium sized game animal is going to walk away from at 100 yds.
My Marlin 1894 cowboy with a 20" brl will get 1700 fps with Alliant 2400, and a 175gr bullet
With 14gr of 296, behind an Accurate 36-175-B, which casts at 180gr, I get 1650fps with my20", a 16" Marlin carbine will get 1600, and a 24" Rossi will get 1700. There is room for more powder behind that bullet, but you would need to work up very slowly.

My bullets cast at .358, and my cowboy with standard rifling will shoot to about 1&1/4" at 50yds, same bullet, and same load from a friends microgroove carbine went about 1", so don't get too worked up about microgrooving.

Rossi's tend to be a law unto themselves. I've read reports on here about folks doing well with 180gr bullets but also a lot report otherwise. My brothers 24" Rossi does not shoot better than about 4" at 50yds with 180gr bullets, much better with 158gr or less.

Winchester 94s have a reputation for being somewhat cranky in 357, but OK in 44 and 45.

Several blokes at my local club use the 20" Winchester 92s made by Miroku in Japan and with the Accurate 36-175-B at anything over about 1350fps have no problem consistently toppling the 200 yd steel silhouette rams.

Nobody over here uses the Henry, so no idea how that would work for you.

If you want to mount a scope I'd go Marlin.

Henry. I had a Rossi, it was a little rough and had to go thru some gyrations to get it to feed 180 gr rf boolets from a group but here. It also jammed the first time I took it hunting. The steel Henry action is slick and feeds anything I feed it. Just killed my first deer a couple weeks back. I'm sold.
Siamese4570

I have no problems loading and chambering a NOE 360-180 WFN GC in my Marlin 1894CS. Cycles slicker than you know what.

My normal load is 12 gr of 2400 for 1500 fps. I routinely shoot 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards with the stock buckhorn sights.

The same 180 gr bullet with 15.2 gr of 296 and a small pistol magnum primer goes well over 1700 fps. The point of impact changes and the groups open up a little but I can tighten them up with a scope. This extends the range to 80 yards for me, maybe 100.

As a side note I also load a plain based version of the 180 gr GC. I use 8.5 gr of A #7 for 1300 fps. This load stacks them in a 2" stick on dot at 50 yards. I have to think that a 180 gr bullet with that wide of a meplat going 1300 fps would do just about any job I need doing.

I like my Rossi 92 .357.

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Originally Posted by T-Bird

Boatbum, I have a Marlin 1894cs that I am shooting the Cast Performance (LBT) 180 WFNGC and crimped in the groove, it feeds like butter. I'm loading with a stout load of H110 and getting 1550 fps. Killed a fat doe very well last week. Glen is right, the 358429 crimped in the groove won't feed. Has to be crimped over the front driving band.

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I ran into the same problem in my Marlin with the RCBS 150 SWC loaded in magnum cases. Seated to the crimp groove it measured 1.613 and would not quite clear the magazine tube. I filed the shoulder of the shell stop on the carrier back allowing a longer cartridge to clear the magazine tube. I've ran many rounds through it since then and the modification has had no adverse effect with any round.

sghart3578 I'm a tad confused as you mentioned the NOE 160 WFNGC & further on you mention a 180gr bullet . Did you mean the NOE 180 WFNGC ? If so that's pretty close to the version of LBT 180 WFNGC I have . What oal are you loading to ?
Goldstar225 I've heard the carrier could be modified so that helps in that I might be able to shoot my preferred bullet . Thanks

Microgroove is not a problem, just PC to get them larger. Wanted a Marlin 357 but got into BO which is MUCH more capable for 150 & 180 gr cast.

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Originally Posted by boatbum101

sghart3578 I'm a tad confused as you mentioned the NOE 160 WFNGC & further on you mention a 180gr bullet . Did you mean the NOE 180 WFNGC ? If so that's pretty close to the version of LBT 180 WFNGC I have . What oal are you loading to ?
Goldstar225 I've heard the carrier could be modified so that helps in that I might be able to shoot my preferred bullet . Thanks

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Thanks for the catch! My mistake, I have corrected my post.

I load the NOE 360-180 WFN GC and WFN PB both to an OAL of 1.60" (1.595" actually).
They cycle great!

This is the PB bullet but the GC bullet is identical.

Also, I size mine to .360" as my 1894CS is a microgroove model from 1984.

If you buy a new Marlin you may want to order this mold to drop at .358".

Best of luck.

Attachment 252892

Thanks sghart3578 . I think that's one hell of a bullet & should be just fine for my purpose . I've been asking all over to see what everyone's been using in that weight class , oal used & what rifle / carbine shot in . So far the Saeco 354 , 180 WFNGC NOE , & RD bullets are what I've found that others use . As I stated earlier my best 2 choices seemed to be a 1894 with Ballard rifling or a BBS . Few have been willing to share their findings for some reason .

I had a Henry BBS for a short time but returned it. The few times that I shot it it seemed to do fine with .358" sized bullets in 158 gr.

I have a new 2018 Marlin in 357 mag and it too takes .358" cast bullets. It does equally well with 125 gr and 158 gr bullets. I haven't tried it in 180 gr because my molds in that weight drop too large in diameter.

There are differences of course between the two rifles. Side gate vs tube loading, slight weight difference, etc. But if it is between the Henry BBS or the Marlin 1894C I don't think that you will go wrong with either choice.


Steve in N CA