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I know this subject has probably been beaten to dust But... I just got a screaming deal on a military model Remington rolling block with a great bore and was thinking about putting it to work. What can .43 Spanish be made from that's not as expensive as Bertram cases. Will .348 Winchester or .50-90 sharps work I'm not worried about forming or trimming. I can get everything needed except brass :sad: Maybe I should have it bored out to .50-70 Govt.
Well if you aren't onto long range shooting then the 50/70 should be right up your alley. Get a faster twist barrel than the old times used to better stabilize those big bullets. Brass is available from starline so the quality is there. I have one of the swedish rolling blocks but undecided as to caliber.Was thinking of a carbine style with 22 or 24" long barrel in half octagon but cannot think about a caliber. Frank
The usual case to start with is the .348 Winchester. It generally has to be thinned near the base, and the rim diameter may need turning down, depending on the chamber.
Then it needs neck expanding, forming in a .43 Spanish die, and trimming to length. The neck may need outside turning or reaming, as well.
After making up 50 cases, you may wind up wondering how Bertram can sell theirs so cheap. ;-)
I recently noticed that Starline is offering 348 Winchester brass. Their pitch is a minimum quantity of 250 cases for a modest charge of $425.00! At that price you really want to be careful in forming your .43 Spanish. At that rate each "oops" you have will cost you $1.70 in penalty.
I just looked at Track of the Wolf, they have .44-77 brass https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ.../CASE-44-77-SH but it is $3.39 a piece. It should be a simple neck down.
When I got my 1879 Argentine, I bought the reformed .348 brass from Buffalo Arms. It worked, but some of it needed to be sized farther to fit my chamber.
.348 brass was readily available then so I bought a few bags thinking I would do the conversion myself, utter failure. The Lee dies that I have and the Pacific Super C press weren't strong enough to squeeze the base of the cartridge down far enough to chamber, I don't remember if I ever tried doing it once I got my Rockchucker or not.
When I bought my rifle, the guy I talked to at TotW made a comment about most of the people there had the chambers reamed to use .348 brass. Not something I would do at least without clearly marking the gun.
One of the biggest drawbacks to converting .348 Winchester brass to .43 Spanish is the need to increase the thickness of the rim from the normal 0.060"ish it comes as to about .090". That alone makes it worth waiting for Buffalo Arms to do another run of conversions, at least to me.
Don't get me wrong, the .43 Spanish is a lot of fun to play with, but it isn't as cheap or easy as the .45-70.
Robert
buy the ready made brass, at least one box, go shoot. I believe there a lot of peeps who use 45-70 as a donor case. it will head space on the shoulder after full throttle fire forming.
Track of the Wolf also lists 43 Spanish available, CASE-43-SPANISH $3.39 ea.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...ASE-43-SPANISH
This is the way I'd go, AntiqueSledMan.
I played with a 1879 argentine in 43 spanish years ago.
I had bell and Jamison brass. My problem it was only good for maybe 3 reloads if you were lucky then it would split towards the shoulder of the case. All my loads were black powder rounds.
I got tired of replacing brass so it went down the road and was replaced with a rebarreled roller in 45-70 and have not looked back.
A 50-70 would be a good one to think about! Not sure if theres enough meat in your barrel to have it rebored?
With a mini-lathe you can turn down the .348's head diameter to chamber in your gun. Do a chamber cast so as to turn the least amount and not get the brass too thin. A simple .030 thick "O" ring will compensate for the .43 Spanish's .085-.090 rim thickness. Anneal the neck/shoulder area before fire-forming. I fire-formed my brass with 10 grains of Unique and a full case of Cream O' Wheat cereal held in place with a bee's wax wad. Once-fired .348 Win brass is often for sale for a lot less than $1 per case if you look around. I made 50 cases from .348 brass for my Argentine roller several years ago and they are still holding up after 20+ loadings with black powder. I do not resize these after firing just reprime, load and shoot. My #439186 Lyman mould drops slugs that measure .441" when cast of 50/50 COWW/plumber's lead. Unsized these are large enough to thumb seat and chamber in my rifle. .43 Spanish is do-able and not all that difficult. Bell, Jamison, and Bertram brass do not hold up well and often crack after 2 or 3 loadings despite their high cost. Buy, borrow, or steal: "Shooting the .43 Spanish Rolling Block" by Croft Barker (Cistern Publishing Company) It has a lot of good information that will guide you successfully without having to learn everything the hard way.
I found Track of the wolf will have the Best matching 43 spanish and 44/77 on the market. there brass matches original rifle with the thicker rims. all older remingtons have that rounded rim. .I purchase Bertram in the past and if you do not adjust your headspace for your Rifles they will not fire. Now if You have 1 rifle thats Fine but i have 6 different 43 spanish Tracks works in every one.
Thanks for the link SledMan. I gave 'em and order.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiqueSledMan
Imade mine from 24ga brass shot shells.
I made 43 Span for RB out of 348win. I did turn some off cases toward the base. The form die I had
was home made by some machinist and would start to dig into the brass, it had to be turned. I did
nothing to rims because they fit and fired in the RB. The 348 brass was Remington 1x from old Red & Green Kleanbore box days. I only loaded 3 times but didn't loose any cases. I don't know how you would make 43 Span out of 45/70.
I would have to agree to probably buy the proper brass when it's available. 348 W brass is going to run you anywhere from 1.50/case (lucky!) to 3.00/case. I have some 43 spanish brass and some formed brass from 348. I didn't form the brass since I was able to buy the reformed stuff. I have a couple hundred 348 brass, but since I have a 71 Winchester, I am a little hesitant to use those. I think ultimately, since the 348 was designed to replace the 33 Win and 50-110 and all those rounds, I can imagine a 50-110 would have to be close as a base, but that's just me musing. The 33 Winchester is a bit short, but same rim as 348. The 50-110 is plenty long but a bit smaller rim diameter (.607).
Hawkeye. There’s an old saying .... If you want to dance, you have to pay the fiddler. I learned that with my RRB in 43 Spanish. Worse yet to get a German Schuetzen rifle capable to shoot. A caliber that went extent in 1900 after 20 years ... a box of 100 cases = $378. But there are only 3 known 9.5x47R rifle owners in the US
They can be made from the 264 wn mag, 7mm rem mag. 300 win and weathery mag. 375 H&H mag and even the 458 win mag to name just a few. All it takes is just a little work, but I enjoy making them.
Well I solved the case problem by selling the .43 for double what I paid for it and got a BSA international MK1 with the funds. I have no problems modifying brass when a parent case is available but I wasn't about to put 750.00 into brass for a rifle that I had 160.00 in.
Can you outline a procedure to do this for us?Quote:
Originally Posted by brstevns
Belt needs to be removed, I use my drill press and a small file. If you have a lath this will be a fast job.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMountain
Cut to a length just a little longer than need.
Fire form with 10gr, Unqiue with cornmeal, gritts etc. over powder charge. Seal by pushing round into a bar or soap or a large candle to make a nice plug.
Round will fall to far into chamber so you will need a small c clip or o ring to keep round in place, I use a small c clip placed in extractor groove.
Fire form and trim to correct lenght , leave clip in place for extractor or use finger nail to remove brass. Case will headspace on shoulder, but your need the c clip so the extractor can pull brass from chamber , there are other ways to form a rim on the brass but the clip works for me.
Anneal brass before loading live rounds or before fire forming brass
Hope this was of help
Long ago, one of the solutions I saw was to enlarge the chamber rim to accept the thicker wider .348 case, keeping the 43 Spanish chamber. The other solution is to reduce rim thickness and diameter of the .348 brass. The rim should be trimmed from the 'front' so primer pocket depth is not changed. I had a .43 Egyptian, cases were 'HARD TO FIND' (totally different dimensions). A company called Connecticut Cartridge Company (CCC headstamp) made many of the 'exotic' calibers in the 60's. Contract for 30 Carbine for Viet Nam ended availability of 'exotic' brass.
I think i have some ccc brass. This thread should be titled "how to make 43 Spanish brass from other obsolete and scarce brass" lol
go to YOU TUBE!! it will show you every thing you need to know.
The standard magnum type brass is not obsolete or scarce !Quote:
Originally Posted by tucumcari_kid
Have a 100 cases of their 43 Spanish ... NFSQuote:
A company called Connecticut Cartridge Company (CCC headstamp) made many of the 'exotic' calibers in the 60's
I just ran across a magazine article on forming .43 Spanish cases. It runs from page 34 through 39 in the April 2001 issue of Accurate Rifle magazine. It looks like everything in it has already been covered here, though.
Good afternoon
With one Roller in .43 (With a .444 Groove) I learned that before you start work on the 348 Win Brass rim see if the case head already fits the chamber. We still have 3 Rollers in ".43" and they all have a groove .442 or larger.
Mike in Peru
Taking the suggestion of using belted magnum cases as donor brass, I full length sized 300 win mag brass in 43 Spanish dies sans the decap stem. Next trimmed to length. Step 3 was resize with the decap/neck size plug in place. Trimmed the belt off the case on my lathe. I suspect a drill press with a large enough chuck to hold the case and a file would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMountain
Finding the right circle clip took a little time and I wasn't smart enough to write down the size in the hardware store when I was there.
I've only made a couple, but it certainly looks like viable method of making an expensive case from a commonly available case.
I've got 60 more 300 win mag case that I have no use for. At least until now:D
The only way I found to form 43 Spanish involved a lathe which I don't have although that would give me an excuse to buy a lathe:)
Buy the brass from Track of The Wolf.
Glad to see I was of help. I used a tapered mantrel inserted in to the case month when fileing off the belt in my drill press.Quote:
Originally Posted by 15meter
Just do not forget to anneal that brass before using it. I forgot the frist time and lost some to shoulder splits . once I started the annealing I haven't lost any , some have been fired 5 times using 5477 powder
First half dozen conversions were with Hornady brass, worked great. Figured I had the procedure figured out. Wrong. Next 20 were Winchester brass. All steps except trimming the belt off completed. Trimmed belt on the first case, won't chamber, too fat ahead of where the belt had been. None of the others fit.
Back to the drawing board. Tried Federal brass, 20+ pieces, all fit great, single piece of Remington brass doesn't even need belt turned off. I think I need to scrounge some more Remington brass.
Dang fat Winchester brass.
I found it best to size the brass in mag type full lenght sizer die before sizing in the 43 Spanish Mauser die.Quote:
Originally Posted by 15meter
I have been using a Lee 7mm mag die to do this, worked for me . Hope this helps
You have a bit of a point but I stumbled across something in my musings...Quote:
Originally Posted by tucumcari_kid
The .50 Alaskan is based on the .348 Winchester case, is available and far less expensive than the .348 so how much effort would it be to size it down instead of blowing the .348 out?
I make them out of 8m/m LEBEL.
I also use 8m/m LEBEL & 348 WIN. to make 43 REFORMADO.
The circlips on altered mag rifle cases work just fine. I got my clips from McMaster-Carr:
Catalog number: 97414A660 $9.24
Low-Clearance External Retaining Ring for 1/2" OD, Side-Mount, Black-Phosphate Spring Steel
I know your experience. I bought a German stalking rifle (pre 1890, no proof markings) that was advertised as a 8mm. It turned out to be a 9.5X47R chambering. Making brass has been an interesting experience. BACO 44-77 with a .513 base diameter is where I'm starting with as parent brass after chamber cast. 375H&H dies taper the body. I gut lucky and found a used set of 9.5X47R dies on EBay.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Boy
Lee dies won't hold up reducing the body diameter they will split.
I used 45-2.4 (45-90) to make ten 43 Spanish because of a need to know. But I will use the BACO with the .513 base (at the time were $178 a hundred shipped) if I make more.
Bill
I too have 100, CCC cases, CASCADE CARTRIDGE Co, in 50/70 CAL. that I bought in 1960 at the BRINFIELD, CT flea market. still loading them and shooting them!! these big boys don't seem to stretch? never trimmed them.
Don't bother with the 348. I wasted money on that. I was successful making 43 Spanish out of 45/90 and even 45/70 with a short neck. Both shot fine, and needed nothing more than a full length die. There is even a 45 special or something like that that is just a long straight wall 45 case that can easily be formed to 43 Sp. (or 45/70, 45/90) Half of my cases are these.
bmac10, please tell me what it takes to make them out of 45/70's. I have many of them and would like to use them to make 43 SPANISH. thanking you. toot.
every time that I used 45-70 brass. I just run them into the 43 SPANISH, dies and a beautifully formed case came out. up on firing them every one of them split legenth wise. not good to use 45-70 at least for me. any one else have this problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by ascast