Powder storage discussion and question???

Wife said get it put away!! After the 8 years of Bummer admin and now better supply of powder I have lots of random cans, mostly the 1 lb variety stored about. I'm wanting to get the stored units into some kind of proper "magazine" and have a separate "magazine" for the in use cans. Have about 50 lbs of a variety from tall round Reloader cans to short round IMR to square type VV to square Accurate to metal Dupont, Elephant, and plastic Shutzen and Swiss holy black cans and even some of the older 8 oz metal cans of powder. Heck, even have a couple of "Quaker Oats type" paper cans of cannon and F grade black from when we divided up 25 lb bags. So looking at some type of storage for about 50 cans of 1 lb @ and another easier to get storage for 5 or 6 cans of 1 lb @. How do you guys store and what do you suggest?

AND NO I don't think this is a lifetime supply, leastwise when I consider myself and 3 more generations that are here now and depending on "granddad" for a lot of guidance and stuff.

Well - you could get lucky like me and find a nice fire safe to store it all in. Mine is an old Remington-Rand safe that has 3 inch walls of fire brick inside steel. Or you could just build a powder magazine from 1 inch ply, plans for which can be found by Googling...

Attachment 227609

FYI, most municipalities have ordinances that specify SAAMI/NFPA specifications.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...ess-Powder.pdf

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11-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences
where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness

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I have never had a problem storing powder on the shelves of a regular closet in the original powder container , heating and air conditioning seems to keep it from sweating , I never store powder in the basement , garage , or attic .

I store the open stuff on a shelf near the press, inventory goes in stackable Coleman coolers in a closet.

One of the worst ideas is what Baja_traveler did. In a fire you want it all to burn, trying to save it by sealing it in a steel box creates a bomb. His particular box will keep the temps down for a while, but it’ll get hot enough eventually to ignite and the box is not going to contain the explosion.

thanks all!! Now the question is: What the H is 1 inch "nominal" thickness? Is it as in commercial finished lumber like a 1 X 4 which is actually 3/4 inch thick by 3 & 1/2 inch wide? Or is it actually wood of a whole 1 inch thickness.

Seems the lumber industry calls 3/4 inch the "nominal" size for 1 inch.

I have access to used surplus military artillery shell boxes and they are rugged but are only the "nominal" 1 inch, which actually is 3/4 inch thick wood.

There plenty of AH regulation enforcers that be glad to lock you up for being short even 1/8 inch of wood.

Again thanks! 10

If that 1/4 inch becomes a problem , it's probably the least of your concerns . I keep all my powder and primers in one strategic place in my home ( in case of a house fire ) along with the majority of loaded ammo . A few fire extinguishers placed around the house would probably be more useful . That reminds me I better go check the fire extinguishers !

I have always considered "Nominal" to mean "Minimum".

I have always considered "Nominal" to mean "Minimum".

Deck boards are usually 5/4"s ( Five -Quarters) or about 1-1/8th inch thick after planing, so they would meet the "nominal" thickness of 1" if you chose to build powder magazine or two for your powders.

P.S.- I live in a small town which only allows me to have 25 pounds in the house. If I went larger, I have to build a "in ground" powder magazine outside a certain distance form occupied buildings. < just some examples.
It may be a good idea to research your Local laws/ordinances.

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Originally Posted by JBinMN

I have always considered "Nominal" to mean "Minimum".

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Nominal means "in name only." A 2x4 is actually 1 1/2x3 1/2 and a 1x6 is actually 3/4x5 1/2. A box built with nominal 1 inch material would be made from 3/4 inch thick boards. That is unless the "code" has some funky definition.

I made my powder box from 3/4 inch plywood (which is actually 23/32 of an inch). I don't expect any inspectors will ever be here. I live outside the city limits and do whatever I want.

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Originally Posted by Ickisrulz

Nominal means "in name only." A 2x4 is actually 1 1/2x3 1/2 and a 1x6 is actually 3/4x5 1/2. A box built with nominal 1 inch material would be made from 3/4 inch thick boards. That is unless the "code" has some funky definition.

I made my powder box from 3/4 inch plywood (which is actually 23/32 of an inch). I don't expect any inspectors will ever be here. I live outside the city limits and do whatever I want.

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OK. Thanks!
Works for me.
:)
My boxes for storage of primers & powders are over an inch thick.
;)

I've done a lot of research on this, scoured maybe 10 or 15 other forums and discovered many folks storing their powder in their sheds, garages, patios what have you. They claim that even in the most humid climates, powder remains fine if lid is screwed on tight. I, personally store most of mine on shelf in my reloading room attached to carport. I keep the window unit on around 78 or 79 and never had a problem. As far as safety is concerned, yes if you have an exorbitant amount, by all means store in some type of flammable cabinet. Black powder is an explosive. Smokeless powder is not. Rather, smokeless powder is a propellant which cannot be made to explode.

baja traveler that safe unless it is vented and being a fire safe i am sure it is not that could be one big bomb in event of a fire most fire safes are only good for a limited amount of time and that doesn't mean they don't get good and hot inside. as far as storing powder you might want to check your insurance company most have restrictions on how much you can store . locality may also have regulations. all approved powder storage containers are vented to allow the gas to vent and not build up pressure.

I use an old solid oak wall locker I got off Paris Island! It has 3/4" sides and a three drawer cabinet, lockable and nice locking. Maybe a surplus store has one near you!

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Originally Posted by RED BEAR

as far as storing powder you might want to check your insurance company most have restrictions on how much you can store .

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I have never been asked by my insurance company what I store in my home. Have you?

Your local fire code is what you want to look at. If it is the National Fire Code, it currently limits you to 20 lbs of all types of powder. The Internztional Fire Code has a 50 lbs limit. They both are for within a structure. A magazine of 50 lbs capacity can be bought online.

****, I'm gonna have to shoot a lot of sighters with hunting season coming on. Getting under the 20 pound is problematic. Guess I'll just keep my mouth shut and keep hoarding whatever I want. Store safely just to keep the fambly happy. Of course I can just load a whole bunch of my cast boolit ammo and it'll be stored in brass cases. Have some loaded ammo that is over 130 years old and it still goes "BOOM". Holy black and what granddad called "hot brown" powder. Lead boolits and soft "swan, duck and peep" shot. Roll crimped #8, #10 and #12 shells hand marked as S, D or P. Yes, have a #8 dbl barrel hammer that great granddad used for market hunting. Hope all have safe storage and no problems with the local "regulators". 10

I haven't heard that for a while ( regulators ) government men , your going to tell your age .

i have never been asked but agent was doing inspection of home to see if we had enough coverage and saw that i reloaded and mentioned that anything over 20 pounds of propellant would void the policy. agent was in the nra so he was just warning me. not completely sure how they would determine how much you had. also mentioned it needed to be in approved container. thats how i knew a storage container had to be vented.

I made mine out of some short pieces of 2 x 12 and keep it in the basement. My thought is put the magazine on the basement floor because heat rises. If I'm not out of the house by the time it burns through I'm dead anyway.

Old refrigerators and chest freezers to store powder and primers.

Your main concern w/ a proper storage container is in the event of a fire. And by that I mean the insurance investigation afterwards. While probably not likely I can see them denying a claim because you didn’t store you’re powder/primers in containers that met local code. It’s better to stay w/in the law when you’re talking about a huge investment like your home. Having a claim denied would ruin almost everyone.

There’s a reason they specify a wooden container. The safe posted above potentially becomes a bomb in the event of a fire. Once the seals swell that safe can become pressurized. W/ a wooden container there’s no chance for pressure to build. Same goes for an old refrigerator/freezer. The doors can easily open on them unlike a safe. And I won’t get into “fire” safes and their lack of a testing standard. If it’s an actual safe, not a RSC, that’s meant for documents then it has a true fire rating and will keep interior temps below a particular temp.

I built a cabinet that is in my basement. Three shelves and deep enough to put two 1 pound containers front to back. And with a pair of doors that I have a clasp on I can lock if I needed to.
Can store about what you have. It is in same location as my reloading equipment. The GOOD thing about this is that I can take out that ONE container I'm using today and SHUT the rest up in the cabinet.
Zero way to mix up powder if you have only ONE outside the box. Way better in my opinion than open on a shelf. BTW, I used half inch MDF. It smoulders in a fire, won't hardly keep a fire going so I would expect it to withstand a bit of fire before allowing the powder to burn. Build or buy something and keep it closed up.

powder and primers should not be stored in the same location. and i can see an insurance investigator denying for anything they could come up with. i dealt with a couple good ones and a few but heads. and you can't request a good one.

National fire code (written by insurance co) regarding powder, haven't seen any restriction on amount for residences. There are restrictions on distance between powder, ammo and adjacent structures. Fire dept. are concerned about ammo going off - hear discharge and they will let it burn. F.D. can determine source of fire pretty easy, powder is just another flammable product. Insurance co. inspection can note that powder increased the amount of damage. There is NO statement in any home insurance doc. that I get where powder is even mentioned. Insurance co can say the same thing about flammable gas, oil, etc stored in home. Insurance is a **** shoot anyway, they will want to only pay for actual damage, if it ain't burnt, no pay, then a lump sum for smoke damage - but not for F.D. water damage.

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Originally Posted by popper

National fire code (written by insurance co) regarding powder, haven't seen any restriction on amount for residences. There are restrictions on distance between powder, ammo and adjacent structures. Fire dept. are concerned about ammo going off - hear discharge and they will let it burn. F.D. can determine source of fire pretty easy, powder is just another flammable product. Insurance co. inspection can note that powder increased the amount of damage. There is NO statement in any home insurance doc. that I get where powder is even mentioned. Insurance co can say the same thing about flammable gas, oil, etc stored in home. Insurance is a **** shoot anyway, they will want to only pay for actual damage, if it ain't burnt, no pay, then a lump sum for smoke damage - but not for F.D. water damage.

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NFPA is what SAAMI references. That code is not written by insurance companies so I’m not sure where you got that. IBC specifically references NFPA so if the township you live in uses IBC then you fall under NFPA unless they specifically state their own limits.

The problem w/ NFPA is that you have to pay to view it. I have their books going back many years because I needed to know the code for my profession. NFPA isn’t perfect but it’s designed to protect you. It does mention storage of items like gasoline and solvents but everyone ignores this.

Firefighters are more concerned w/ propane tanks, gas cans and other flammable liquids. But they’re in every house unlike powder and primers.

Here are some SAAMI links:
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...ess-Powder.pdf

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...oc-Primers.pdf

Black powder is technically an explosive but it’s exempt from regulation per the ATF. It does have its own set of storage requirements. One of the reasons few companies sell it anymore is because of the magazine requirements.

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/qa/bl...xplosives-laws

(1) Maintain a consistent temperature
(2) Don't tell the insurance company

For the record - the door is never dogged over and locked - if it goes up it will simply push the door open and burn,,,

Wood of 1 inch thick (actual) has a known ability to withstand fire and insulates the contents from external heat. By the time interior temp of 1' thick wood box hits ignition temperature of the powder the box is structurally incapable of holding pressure and the plastic powder bottles will have likewise melted and not build up pressure. Refrigerator that does not latch serves same function. Fridge is insulated and with non-latching door would be unable to become pressurized by burning powder.

See the common theme. Protect the contents from heat for decent amount of time, not become pressurized by burning powder so it explodes. One note on the lids of home built wood powder magazine if it has a drop lid don't pile stuff on top. Better for the top to easily "pop" open if the powder inside ignites.

I keep primers in an old file cabinet drawer because they can chain fire and become projectiles. This in not anywhere near any powder. I do have some boxes of primers in current use on the shelf behind the bench. I also do not keep all my powder in one location. A few cans handy on top shelf behind bench, some in wood box. Some 8# jugs on a shelf away from the rest. I really need a second wood box. I keep it under 50# but if I didn't consider that sufficient (not going to say anyone would be wrong to stock what they can while they can) I would be putting it in insulated containers to move some of it to a shed or other out building to keep the weight in my residence down. Insurance company wants to not cover a shed for too much powder, assuming they can prove such a situation existed I would rather it be a shed than the house they refuse to pay for.

My neighbor was just told he had to remove his wood furnace from his pole barn and add a fence up the side of his above ground pool to a certain height above the sides, not doing either of these would get his insurance coverage canceled. Best play those cards close to the vest I guess.

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Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler

For the record - the door is never dogged over and locked - if it goes up it will simply push the door open and burn,,,

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Apologies for my incorrect assumption.

Smokeless Powder in it's factory container with the lid closed is safe. I lost almost 40 pounds of powder to a wildfire that got my home. 16 pounds of AA#9 in 2 jugs in the factory cardboard container burned in a shed next to a box of new steel electrical boxes, the elect boxes were left stacked 6 high, no trace the powder was ever there much less an explosion. There was no evidence of any of the other powder either like hot spots or things out of place. 6-700 rounds of 44 mag ammo cooked off in the back of my car. Not so much as a small ding in the metal.

There was no powder in the house but the flour, sugar, rice and beans were hot enough to melt the refrigerator down to the height of the stove.

I think government types sit around and IMAGINE what could happen whether there is scientific evidence or not. And you get THIS!

That’s the wrong placard for smokeless powder. 1.4C is for model rocket motors. Smokeless is 1.3C, with C designating propellant. Regardless that’s the UN classification system which doesn’t matter in the US. Smokeless powder will carry the flammable solid placard, not an explosive one.

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Originally Posted by dragon813gt

That’s the wrong placard for smokeless powder. 1.4C is for model rocket motors. Smokeless is 1.3C, with C designating propellant. Regardless that’s the UN classification system which doesn’t matter in the US. Smokeless powder will carry the flammable solid placard, not an explosive one.

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You are probably correct in theory but that box contained a jug of 2400 in my order from PV last month which never left the US. It concerns me that people who have no clue are making up their own rules. I had a building inspector insist I put a 10ga ground wire between the box and door of an UL Listed device on a 20 amp service. I tried to argue but since he was the law I put the wire in. People who are wrong will often defend their position with more energy than if it was the truth. WUWT