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Who on here remembers Kent and his recommended load for the 44 Mag H&G 503, H110 and Magnum primers?
I do and John Ross does. Who else.
Don't worry Load Data police I am not going to post it. John Ross can or maybe someone else that ever talked to Lomont.
Lomont also cast bullets for sale.
He had a pressure gun and did some loads testing for me too.
Kent also scoped several model 29s and shot closer to an inch groups at one hundred yards. He had an amazing life and I miss him. Our phone conversations could last three and four hours.
Sure do! Kent told me that he loaded a bunch of 44 mag. and made match ammo out of it. Everything he could do to make it as match grade as possible. Trimming and weighing cases, weighing bullets, each powder charge and so on. Then he loaded the same amount with cases and bullets just grabbed up and loaded on his Star progressive. Shot everything out of a Scoped Model 29 mounted in a Ransom Rest at I believe 100 yards if memory serves. After all that he said the "Match" grade shot groups about 1/4" to 1/2" smaller than the regular blasting ammo. I once wrote on here about his endurance tests on a Model 29 and was basically told I was full of it. I would dearly love to be able to set around a campfire with others who knew Kent and compare the stories. Shooting, camping and conversations are all fondly remembered. I think a book like "Letters to Elmer Keith" would be interesting. But a lot more people knew of Keith instead of Kent so it would comparably be a smaller niche.
I remember his telling me of the endurance testing. Didn't he do this for S&W and wasn't it a 4 inch M29?
I have forgotten most of the details though.
Like me, his "endurance testing" was just him shooting the guns he liked a LOT. S&W was of course interested in the results but aside from fixing the things that broke, S&W never paid us.
I shot one of my Model 29s enough (over 70,000 rounds) that the frame developed a crack at the cylinder stop notch. Kent did this to four of his 29s IIRC.
When that happens, S&W cuts the gun in half, builds you a new gun, and stamps the frame with the original serial number.
The result is often a fun way to baffle collectors: A gun that is marked "Mod. 29-5" or whatever version they were up to when they made the new frame, but with a serial number that indicates the gun was made in 1959...
Didn't Kent have a pet load of Unique with the H&G 503? Wasn't it 9.5 gr. The times we talked on the phone he said so much it was hard to take all of it in.
Who remembers him using a type of primer that wasn't applicable to Handguns and had to be leaned on hard when seating to get it below the case head with his H110 Load. I shot several loaded with that particular primer in a M29.
Also he and his buddies finding a reasonable sized trees and shooting at them with their 44 Mags until it fell over as a fun thing to do.
44MAG#1, I'm pretty sure he was talking about rifle primers. He told me about he and Lee Jurras going out for a day of shooting and Jurras brought a big box of SuperVel ammo for them to play with. They cut down a tree with it. One Model 29 started out as an 8 3/8 inch and he poured an extremely large number of rounds through it before sending it back for replacement of the springs and maybe the firing pin. He had Smith cut the barrel to 4 inch so he could practice quick draw with it and poured another extremely large amount of rounds through it. By then the forcing cone was burned away to the edge of the barrel and again the springs were shot along with the firing pin. The ring around the cylinder you get from the cylinder bolt stop was actually etched into the cylinder. The factory replaced the parts, set the barrel back 0ne turn a resurfaced the forcing cone. The barrel itself was still good as he fired it in a Ransom rest at 100 yards and it grouped 4 inches. John, if you were witness to any of this please correct me if I'm not accurate.
"44MAG#1, I'm pretty sure he was talking about rifle primers."
Correct. Can't talk about things like that now. Many would have conniption fits over it nowadays.
Times are different. I can understand though. Anything people do now is unsafe, bad for your health, illegal or a sin according to many.
But as I said I can understand. We don't know who we are dealing with now.
Don, I was aware of the 4" with the forcing cone eroded out to the edge of the barrel but did not know that it had once been an 8 3/8" tube.
If Kent ever used rifle primers in his .44 mag loads in the '60s and '70s it was only in ammo he shot out of his Super Blackhawks. S&Ws of that era with hammer-mounted firing pins would not reliably ignite rifle primers, period. We both discovered this independently and talked about it regularly.
We did alter some .44 cases to take Alcan Max-Fire shotgun primers for use in wax bullet loads.
Remember seeing some photo's of the Lamont's visiting Elmer & they were sitting up stairs where Elmer kept his guns. That's been a long time ago. I've always wished I had ask him to go shooting but at a young age never felt comfortable doing it.
Dick
I am loading up a few with the Lomont H110 load and the H&G 503 with CCI 350's.
Don't tell anyone.
Elmer kept his guns and reloading equipment in the attic. It was hot up there! Kent took these photos in 1975.Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshot
Attachment 214302
I read his many articles on the Auto Mag. He would take out of his pistols and have 2-3 load magazines and shot it as fast as he could until the pistol broke. Somewhere in my collections, I have his listing for custom loads and prices.
I believe he was buried in Salmon, Idaho near Elmer Keith.
Leadmelter
MI
Speaking of Elmer's attic. Several years ago I was on the computer and on a whim got on a real estate site and typed in Salmon, Idaho. Lo and behold they were showing Elmer's house for sale. Think it was listed for $175,000. One of the interior photo's was of the attic and mentioned it had been Elmer's reloading room. There was a close up picture of one of the planks lining the walls and in pencil was a 22/2400. Karma. Perhaps the realtor was a fan. John, I remember Kent saying that the 29 in question started as an 8 3/8's. By the way more pictures if you please.
My favorite Elmer Keith quote: "That's uglier n' a ******* eatin' cactus!!"
If a person has any interest in the Automag they definitely should find the three big articles Kent wrote in Gun Digest and Handloading Digest. Even if you have no interest in the Automag they still make interesting reading and show some nice photos. He tells of making 10,000 cases out of .308 brass. Unfortunately by the time I started camping and shooting with Kent he wasn't into them as much and never got to shoot any of them. But he had other toys we played with that eased the pain. His 8 3/8's Ron Power tuned, bull barreled, Bo-Mar ribbed Model 29 was a joy to shoot. The double action was so nice it seemed a waste to shoot it single action.
He ordered that gun from Ron after shooting mine. In 1976 on the way back from Idaho I stopped in Ron Power's shop near Independence, MO. We got to talking .44 mags and Ron said "Want another one?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Purcell
He pulled out a 10 1/2" .44 mag Power Custom he had built as a Pin Gun for Ad Clark, but Clark had just broken his shoulder in a motorcycle accident and was both unable to shoot and strapped for cash. I bought it on the spot. The DA pull was so light and smooth that the gun would fire if you spun it!
When Kent saw it a few months later he ordered an 8 3/8" one just like it.
Here's a shot from 1976 with some Auto Mags in the upper right corner...
Attachment 214545
I met him at a linebaugh seminar. he was buddys with my best friend that was there too. he showed up one year with a 4 bore rifle and the next year with a gattling gun. I don't know about his load data though but hes quite a character.Quote:
Originally Posted by 44MAG#1
I was in Boise over the week end for the girls state basket ball tournaments (our girls won state!) Of course I had to stop at Cabelas & when I went into the gun library I spotted a very nice Winchester model 63 & bought it for one of my son's. Speaking with the guy who was helping me we got talking about all of Elmer's stuff that use to be in there & I mentioned having several photo's of Elmer when I visited him in Salmon & one of them was Elmer holding his Ruger #1 375. The guy who bought it contacted me & wanted to buy that photo, I told him I would make a copy & I would give him the original & I did. The employee told me that Elmer's son Ted had been in not too long ago & the employee didn't know who he was. Ted ask if the guy would mount a scope for him & the guy says sure, I'll mount it & Ted says, my dad would sure be mad if he knew I was having someone mount a scope for me!! The guy says, who was your dad & Ted said, Elmer Keith!!
Dick
John, speaking of the .44 Automag. Kent mentioned in his article on loading the Automag about trying a 173 grain jacketed hollowpoint you provided him and I believe it's the same bullet you described in your book "Unintended Consequences". I assume you made these yourself with Lakeville dies? I believe Kent told me he used basically a full case of H-110/296 in the Automag. By the way, those look like some pretty suspicious charaters. The cabin was in Idaho, yes?
Correct on all counts except the dies were actually made by Frank "Hemp" Hemsted in 1973. I cannelured the bullets with a C-H tool that put only about .140" shank in the case. I got 2000 FPS out of both 8 3/8" M29s and 6 1/2" Auto Mags. That load shot into 2 1/2" @ 100 yds. from scoped guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Purcell
Hemp made beautiful dies at reasonable cost. He died of cancer Christmas night 1973.
Yep, had a memory dump. Too bad they aren't still available sounds like a fun round to shoot. Kent once gave me a couple hundred of Jim Harvey's 270 grain "Jugular" to try. I still have a box or so but will keep them for memory's sake.
I did not know the man, but I sure have enjoyed this conversation. Thanks to all.
John
One of things that makes folks sad is.... that we can read here about how well some of ya knew this feller & respect how ya are respecting him & his family, remembering times ya had & sharing them...
As well as what he meant to our kind of folks, doing what he did.
While at the same time, folks like me are wishing you could pass on what YOU know, as well as what he shared & passed on...
:)
Glad to hear that he has folks who knew him & his family, that can share the remembrances.
:)
Thanks!
:)
Yo u can google his obit online. He had a BS in Chemistry and started shooting and reloading about age 13. He built custom Auto mag barrels and his own ballistics lab. Became an expert Class 3 dealer and was a regular on that circuit.
Leadmelter
MI
Well, I haven't exactly been a hermit when it comes to passing on the things I've learned...Quote:
Originally Posted by JBinMN
http://www.lsstuff.com/misc/JR500.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadmelter
Thanks! & I will go look up more , as well as read the .pdf file.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ross
:)
A deceased former member here stated that he used to deepen the primer pockets on his .44 Mag brass enough to accommodate LRPs, simply to simplify his logistics. He lived in a remote area up north, and the .44 was either his only handgun, or else the only one that took LPPs, I forget which. He figured that .010" of brass wasn't going to make any appreciable difference in the primer pocket, and went on to prove it - at least to himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by 44MAG#1
I mentioned this in a thread some time later, and was thoroughly castigated for suggesting such a dangerous thing. Whatever.
The rifle primer in question was a Federal not telling which. All I had at the time was a M29 8 3/8ths and a Contender that I rarely shot. I was temporaily out of a Ruger SBH. He knew i was using the Smith. It fired the primers okay. Never had a misfire. I used Remington brass and had to push hard on the press handle to get them very slightly below flush with the case head and used the same powder charge he recommended of H110. I used H&G 503 bullets. I made it clear what firearm i was using.
Today it is best to never mention a load as we have people ready to pounce like a starving lion if anyone mentions a load that they cant wrap their head around.
I was chastised about a load i mentioned from John Linebaugh to use in my Ruger New Vaquero. So i have learned a lesson.
This was when we were talking about the pressure test on some bullets I had NEI make a mold for. He recommended I send Elmer Keith some with the load data which I did.
As far as myself it's just fairly ordinary. My dad started me down this road very young. Maybe 6-7 years old I would watch and "help" him load .44 Mags. and 22-250's. Started casting lead round balls for the muzzleloaders then advanced to the Lyman 429421 for the .44's and .30 cals. for the 30-06 and 30-40 Krag and the .22 calibers for the 22-250. Learned to shoot handguns with my dad's Super Blackhawk around 8-9 year's old with 5 grains of Bullseye and 250 Keith and worked up from there. Our family was not flush with cash so if I got to shoot 50 rounds or more in a week I learned to make every shot count. The first handgun I bought was a Ruger Old Army .44. Lead round ball and 40 grains FFF. Slow to load but impressive to onlookers. For Christmas of 1973 my parents bought me my first Magnum, a Ruger .41 Magnum. But the following Christmas was the best, an 8 3/8 Model 29. Reading Elmer Keith for many years obviously set the path for long range shooting and boy, was that 8 3/8 a sweetie for that. The longest known range was .6 of a mile and I know others were way longer than that across a plowed field as long as you could see your bullet strikes. Met Elmer Keith in 1979 for the first time at the N.R.A. Convention in San Antonio. Then met Kent Lomont at the Kansas City Convention the following year and began camping and shooting with him later that Thanksgiving weekend. I was then totally corrupted on volume shooting. Started I.P.S.C. shooting around then with a slightly modified 1911 .45 acp. Big bore rifles, Ruger 1 # .458 Winchester, 45-70 then finally Shiloh and C. Sharps Arms buffalo rifles in 45-100 and 45-110 then learning to make them shoot with paper patch bullets and black powder which we did. One of my best loads for the 45-110 is a 560 grain paper patch with 103 grains Swiss FG which will put 5 rounds touching each other to make one hole at 100 yards. At one fellows farm we had balloons at 1 measured mile. Yes, you can break a balloon at one mile with a Sharps. This is probably where the groaning and calls of B.S. start but if you get a chance just ask Medal of Honor winner Sammy Davis as he shot with us and was a witness. My dad also broke some with his 45-100. Anyway, pretty normal stuff and then the Smith and Wesson .500 came along and now I have one of each of John's .500's and life is good. Sorry, this has been a long way around the barn.
Good stuff Don. When some one starts calling BS on someone else it usually means they can't do it or haven't even tried so no one else can do it either. There will always be doubters just like many doubted Elmer, then Handgun Silhouette came along & a whole bunch of guys found out a six gun was accurate a lot farther than they ever imagined. This has been a good thread.
Dick
^^^^^THIS!Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshot
When I finally met Kent in person at the Super Vel facility in August of '73 I was 16 and not shaving yet. We were shooting our M29s into a small manmade pond about 20 feet in diameter. At one point Kent started firing full cylinders as fast as he could into the water. I was amazed at how he made a revolver sound like a machine gun. This was with our standard load of 25 H110 H&G 503, which we had just chronographed out of my 8 3/8" M29 at 1510 FPS.
"How do I learn to do that?" I asked him. I expected him to tell me about how it took years of practice, training, exercises, etc.
"It's easy," he said. "Don't bother practicing with an unloaded gun, that's a waste of time. Just hold the gun in both hands, press your elbows into your sides, and let 'er rip. Pushing against the gun's recoil with full loads helps you pull the trigger faster than you can with an empty gun or girlfriend loads. Try it."
I did, and was utterly flabbergasted at the results. Kent saw the look on my face and hooted with laughter. "I told you it was easy!"
Yes, Kent, you did...
Listen to Don and John. there in my opinion in the same league as some of the greatest
Greatest what?
Firearms enthusiast.
Going to try post some pictures of about 34 years ago shooting south of Dugger, Indiana with Kent. Attachment 215161Attachment 215163Attachment 215164
This is the first time posting pictures and thought they would be larger. That is Kent shooting the belt fed water cooled Browning. A full 200 hundred rounds non-stop without a hitch. You could hear the water sizzling in the jacket. Belt fed .50 Browning off the top of his 1 ton Power Wagon. Belt fed .30 cal. air cooled shooting cast bullets. The bullets were cast from a Saeco gang mold at I believe 170 - 175 grain gas checked. Look closed and you can see it was scoped. Hope you enjoy. All the best , Don.
Kewl.............
I did enjoy! & Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Purcell
:drinks:
I correctly picked the MG types as well., from the pictures. Imagine that..! LOL
;)
I met Kent when he set up at the Ohio Gun Collectors show in Columbus OH. I bought a lot of bulk gun powder from him in the mid 1980's before he moved out west. A good friend of mine worked for Kent processing all his 50 BMG cases. He still talks of the good times at Kent's shop in IN before he moved out west.