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Been reading and thinking a lot about a good load for the 44 mag.
Very interested in the effectiveness of a 240-300gr FN Keith style boolit fired at moderate velocities, around 1000fps.
Weapon of choice will be a sigle shot rifle with a 1:20 twist barrel.
Looking at efficacy on deer/deer sized game.
Open to experience, ideas, suggestions etc.
I haven't harvested anything with my 265g devistator hollow points but can tell you there isn't much recoil difference between 1000fps I tried with trailboss vs 19g of h110 at 1675fps out of my 77/44. The 300g Lee I cast have a little bit more recoil with the same load.
I'm courious How long is your barrel? Are you trying for subsonic velocities to use with a suppressor or looking for a low recoil load?
On a thin skinned animal like a whitetail deer I don't think it would matter much. Either one will pass completely through a deer sideways and maybe lengthwise.
It's more important to shoot'm in the right spot.
I agree, but am old school and believe more speed equal more energy transfer for a quicker kill. Slow or fast both will kill a deer but I'd rather have some reassurance. Kinda like shooting a animal with same bullet out of a 22 hornet vs a 22-250. Both will do the job but there will be more trauma with the faster bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory
I'm with Hickory; I've shot a variety of big game with cast and jacketed bullets. A well placed Keith semi-wadcutter .44 at 1,000fps will kill very well.
In this instance, it's not kinetic energy that does the job, but momentum and bullet design. A 300gr wide flat nose vs 240swc shows little difference in a broadside shot as both just zip right through a 200lb animal.
I've even shot deer with a .22Hornet wit a 50gr cast bullet, but shot placement was critical. But very easy given accuracy of rifle/load.
Accuracy trumps everything.
Thanks for the replies.
Barrel is 22" now but will prob be cut down to closer to 18"
I'd like a light quick handling gun for brush and possibly a truck gun.
The added benefit of the compact size and lower recoiling round would be that the nieces and nephews could use it- I like the idea of starting them out on a singleshot that doesn't break the shoulder or pierce and eardrum (yes we wear plugs but still).
I said 240-300 as that is the weight class I would like to be in and don't know which boolit/mold the gun will prefer.
I love the idea of a suppressor, whether it will ever happen is up in the air, definitely not any time soon.
I had a 12 year old shoot a couple hundred rounds out of my 77/44 this year. He told me he couldn't feel much diference in recoil from a 1000 to 1675 fps. To me a 1000fps of mine feels like a 223 or less and less than a 410 at upper levels. Load and try
I used to hunt whitetails with a 6 1/2" bbl. 44 mag. using 250 gr. Keith style bullets @ 900 fps. Total broadside penetration was no problem. They bleed out quick from the big holes and don't go far...if at all.
One tough old doe made it 50 yds. and died on a dead run. I wouldn't have hesitated to use that load out to 100 or so yds., but my shots turned out to be 1/2 of that or less.
1600 fps with 300 grain lead is not hard to do. I use pure lead paper patched and haven't had deer or pigs take a second step after the shot. 20" twist is dandy for such adventure.
300gn WFN in my .44mag rifle drops deer on their feet. I don't worry about velocity, just accuracy. The SWC is great on deer. And I don't think you need a 300gn bullet. I just wanted something for WhiteTail, Mule Deer, Black Bear and possible Elk if I get out that way and get a tag.
I've shot several deer (black tail & mulies) with 240 - 255 gr "Keith" style SWCs at velocities of 950 - 1100 fps.....heavy 44 SPL loads. They killed the deer alright but don't expect a "bang-flop" or DRT with one shot to the vitals. Be prepared and practiced to keep shooting as long as additional shots to the vitals presents itself.
Good information, thanks.
Had a chance to run out to the range real quick after work today, no kiddos in tow but some interesting results:
Shot the regular WW whitebox as a baseline, again fairly accurate, noticeable but not unpleasant recoil, decent report.
Then shot some "cowboy" loads- also 240gr but at appr 800 fps.
Very, very different story. Report was so low I wondered if they could be shot without muffs. Recoil was 0, like a 22.
Think I really need to work toward a middle ground, find the right mould/weight/load combo to fire an accurate, wide meplat boolit at right around 1000/fps and that should do the trick.
Not a 44 but yesterday I used my 45Colt on a 1000lbs Longhorn. Two shots to the ribs both stopped just under the hide on the far side one to the neck mushed two vertebrae. Skinning and dressing showed that anyone of the shots would have been fatal had I not shot more! My load a easy shooting NOE 454-265 at 950-1000. So my vote says yes it will work if you put it in the fight spot!
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bull...ails.php?id=47
This is the boolit I was thinking of starting with, anyone have any experience with it?
i use a 280gr wfn with 17.5gr of 2400 or a 255gr keith with 8.0gr of tite group. i use the keith bullet to knock over cans and the 280gr is for deer. i use a ruger sbh with a 7.5" barrel.
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/p...-280gr-wfn-gc/
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/p...thentic-keith/
Not a fan of their hard alloy at all. BHN 22 and hard blue lube. Recipe for leading in the SBH for sure. These barrels take to 50/50+2% and soft lube like a duck to water.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattri
Here you go mattri, how's this for a meplat? I have shot these in 45 Schofield brass in a New Vaquero and they are pretty accurate, Veral designed these as target wadcutters but for a higher velocity. 1000fps would be plenty doable with these. They would also make a dang fine hunting load for deer. Can order from Montana Bullet Works, BHN15 and Veral's soft blue lube.
44 Mag, LBT, 240gr, OWC-PB
Attachment 207140
Great replies, thanks.
Great looking boolit DougGuy!
I found three WFN boolits at Montana Bullet Works for the 45, these were all accurate and pretty much knocked everything else out of the running for the 45 Schofield chambered Vaquero, I will post a pic of them, and list some similar styles for 44 from the same vendor that you could check out. I think you would be better served with this WFN style than the K style LSWC myself but that's just me..
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...pshh2co3gc.jpg
44 caliber:
44 Mag, LBT, 300gr, WFN-GC
44 Mag, LBT, 300gr, WFN-PB
44 Mag, LBT, 280gr, WFN-GC
44 Mag, LBT, 280gr, WFN-PB
44 Mag, LBT, 280gr, LFN-GC
44 Mag, LBT, 260gr, WFN-PB
44 Mag, LBT, 260gr, WFN-GC
Pretty much anything on this page would suit your purposes, and a few on the next page as well: https://www.montanabulletworks.com/p...caliber=44-mag
I have been shooting the 270 Grain WFN GC from a Henry for a couple of years now. I recently picked up a MGM Encore BBL 22" makes for handi excellent shooting rifle with the short action of Encore it seems to be the perfect little stalking rifle. I like H4227 and load to accuracy in this barrel it was slightly under max. My expereince harvesting deer with the 44 and WFN cast bullets goes back 15 years when I had a fantastic Remington model 788 bolt action rifle in 44. The one gun that got away that makes me ill even today. Every deer shot with the WFN at or above 1000 FPS was a clean quick harvest. I have even taken two elk with the 270 grain bullet from a rifle at 1600 FPS both performed fantastic. Both those cases the bullet was placed in the vitals. My rifles all shoot that bullet very accurate from 1200 FPS up to 1600 FPS that's with a 16 BNH.
About Beartooth,if your willing to wait 3-4-5 months to get your bullets .
Not 44 but Ive killed several deer with a 45 colt at 950/1050 fps and different 250/255 boolit. Certainly enough to form an opinion.
It seems to me it's more like bow hunting. The big boolit obviously hit hard but without any real shock. They have to bleed out which usually happens pretty fast if hit good. Quite often they jump and look around wondering what happened.
If one bang flops I shoot it again. These loads will richohchet off back bones if not hit square. Twice Ive had deer jump up and run after the second shot. Both went about 20 yds. One would have died quickly from the first shot but the other would have healed up.
As Mr Gibson said, don't expect bang/flop. It sometimes happens but more often don't.
That's why you order more than you need from BTB. Only made that mistake.
I used to hunt with a 44 Mag. S&W and I cast my own 240 grain semi wad cutters W/Gas checks Shot them fast and slow took many a Deer with both I bought a 445SM TC Contender no longer hunt so the pistol is a safe queen. The 445SM is a hand full it no target pistol I have often thought of selling it but just can't bring myself too do it. I've often said velocity doesn't make for accuracy.
I would be aiming at shoulders, ..not ribs.
Break them down, then go for a finishing shot.
.
Me; killed one deer with 45/70/cast bullet/1500 fps, years ago.
I was not impressed.
.
Me; killed lots of deer with 3006, and 270, and was very impressed.
.
Fact; high velocity jacketed bullets, properly placed, knock game animals down .....flat.
low velocity, cast bullets, just knock them down....... maybe.
A big flat nose on a slow moving cast bullet will really help.
A moderate velocity 44 mag carbine load has been something I wanted to try hunting with for some time. Took out a 44 handi rifle with a 240 grain SWC from Dardas and propelled it with a light charge of Universal. Soft shooting, no ear splitting report, dead dear, and only one shot. This was my one and only deer with this load but I will not hesitate to try it again next year. Until I tried it I was suspicious that it would not perform but it did quite well.
Matt's Bullets has several wide FN .44s which might work for you and I've found him great on delivery:
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=216 250-grain wadcutter
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=269 315-grain FN
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=300 325-grain FNGC
Kinda curious why soft lead wouldn’t be good for such a slow bullet. Even pure lead wouldn’t reform much unless it hit hard bone from what little I’ve seen with slow bullets.