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I've never seen one in the original chambering, but the ones converted by DWM to 8x57 Mauser are beautiful rifles. Spent the morning one which has a 'mint' bore. Loaded with a Saeco 190gn cast bullet over 28gns 2206, there was no problem regularly hitting the 10 & 9 ring on a standard pistol target at 60m.
My local dealer has a crate of 20+ that haven't been fired for over 30 years!
http://i.imgur.com/E9lIouu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/barUGAn.jpg
Wow! Even "down under" treasures turn up. That one seems in really nice condition. Congratulations on a good find!
I just love these butter smooth actions! Got two, one is original matching 8mm and the other has been worked over into a Euro-Sporter that's now a 7x57.
I have read and heard about them for over 50 years but I have yet to see one in person. james
"one is original matching 8mm and the other has been worked over into a Euro-Sporter that's now a 7x57. "
I would certainly like to see that rifle. I like the older European sporters.
Here's one that is all matching with an excellent bore and metal finish. The wood is dark, but not dinged up too much and it even has the issue muzzle and front sight guard. The Portuguese Royal Crest on the receiver ring is as nice as any of the South American Mauser crests. I really like the sights on these rifles. They are very easy to use and much better than the normal Mauser visier and korn sights. It's a very accurate rifle to way out yonder with the Turkish 8mm ball ammo.
It is Mauser-Vergueiro for anyone who needs to Google it, and it isn't a Mauser at all, owing more to the German Commission 1888 and the Mannlichers. But they are well-built rifles, and the accuracy doesn't surprise me.
Most of the 8x57 conversions were done in a hurry in 1939, when General Franco was getting into bad company. Portugal and Britain have the oldest military alliance in the world, but the Portuguese troops on the Western Front in the First World War had Lee-Enfields, for logistical reasons. Similarly though, the South Africans bought a large number of 6.5mm. Vergueiros when they fought as allies of Portugal in Africa.
I can tell you from experience, the bolts are easy to take apart, but it take three hands to reassemble them! I have to go to YouTube each time.
If I could figure out how to resize on this iPad , I'd post a picture!Quote:
Originally Posted by Multigunner
I know they are not a Mauser but weren't they manufactured by MauserWerke/Orbendorf in 6.5 caliber for Portugal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballistics in Scotland
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Cool. Lets see a picture of the receiver crest, please.
Ok, I did some research and hopefully found out how to resize iPad pictures. This rifle started out as a bare action, I had Mike McCabe rebarrel it, add the sights and work the action and replace the bolt. Been working on fitting it to the stock, which was made by "inthe10ring" over on mausercentral.net.
That sort of makes a person drool! Very nice!
There are a few of those guns that show up from time to time. I bought one in the original 6.5 x 58 mm at the local small town hardware store. The owner has a pretty good selection and used to do a lot of buying and selling. For under $100 bucks its was mine. At the time neither of us really new what it was beyond a mauser. Finally got some reformed 270 brass and fired it after having it for 20 years.
There mightn't be a simple answer to that one. On paper the Portuguese and a much smaller number of Brazilian rifles had been were made by DWM, founded by the Loeuwe family who had already been involved in rifle manufacture under their own name. I think some of the earliest true Mausers for Brazil were marked "Loeuwe". But Loeuwe transferred their large interest in the Mauser company to DWM, so it is entirely possible that some or all were made in a Mauser facilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Texas by God
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Thank you Ballistics. I used to have a Mauser article collection printed as a magazine(NRA publications) that I miss sorely because now I must rely on memory and that seems to be a hit or miss endeavor.
Best, Thomas.
Here is the crest. I believe that it is for King Carlos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion8
A guy in our gun club offered one of these as a prize in a shooting contest. It lives in my safe now.
Ludwig Loewe became DWM in 1896. Since these rifles are designated 1904 models they would have all been manufactured by DWM.
While the design is a Portuguese Heinz 57 mix of Mauser magazine and Mannlicher bolt the manufacturing was done in Germany and it was chambered for German developed cartridges.
Note this example does not have the gas vent hole drilled in the receiver so it is still in 6.5X58P Mauser caliber.
Attachment 201833
Note Ludwig Loewe markings on an 1891 Argentine Mauser manufactured before 1896.
Attachment 201834
I have one of these rifles, matching numbers, etc. beautiful rifle, has the sling with it. The barrel has some external pitting under the wood. I've kept it to mild cast loads and no factory or jacketed ammo. The action is smooth. Like was noted, reassembling the bolt requires a visit to YouTube. The original caliber markings are xx'd out.
I had two of these , now down to one. Great shooter , will shoot well with any ammo. Only thing I noticed is that you can not drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt. MUST be fed thru magazine
It isn't even a Mannlicher bolt really. The German Commission copied Mannlicher's clip-loading central magazine for their 1888 rifle, and were sued for it. Part of the settlement was that Steyr got a contract as one of their manufacturers, and got to use Schlegelmilch's bolt design, developed for that rifle, on their own products. It is best known on the 6.5mm box-magazine Dutch and Romanian Mannlichers, and on the rotary-magazineut Mannlicher-Schoenauer.
In fact it is possible that you will find a Steyr-made Mannlicher of the Dutch and Romanian design. These were in 6.5x53R, and might be quite valuable as it was a much smaller purchase, made in 1896. A conversion for the Mauser-Vergueiro cartridge may have been feasible, but I have never heard that it was done.
I just bought one of these "type" rifles today, at a estate auction. It was listed as a 1896 Mauser. Now I started collecting 1888 GEW Commision rifles about 16 years ago so, I new right away that it wasn't a real Mauser. Since I know a bit about how the Commision rifle came to be, I believe Paul Mauser would be extremely upset, knowing his name was connected to any 1888. So, I'm very surprised they are called Mausers.
I have a suspicion that mine is some kind of a commerial sporter. The receiver ring, has no markings and I can not see where they could have been ground off, like the Turks did to the 88. It also has commerial type German proof markings, to the left of the DWM stamp. The wood is very nice and has some figuring. The butt plate, is also different than the 1904.
I haven't taken it out of the wood yet but, it doesn't have the cross bolt, at least, it isn't visible. It doesn't have a full length stock, as the 1904 does but, I found a similarly shaped variant that I'll include a link to. It's in a foreign language so, I don't know what it says but, it has a different crest. It's called a Espingarda M/1904 F.P.D.F. Anyone know anything about it? My trigger guard is different than this one. My barrel looks original and is also 7x57, nice and shiny, inside.
http://myvimu.com/exhibit/54665936-e...ro-f-p-d-f-7mm
I'll post pictures of mine tomorrow.
Frank
Here are the pictures of my new rifle. Please feel free to comment on it, especially Ballistics in Scotland. I'd like to learn as much as possible about mine and these rifles, in general.
I fire formed a Norma 7x57 case last night, with a 140 gr cast bullet and it looks good for a 7x57. So, the chambering is correct for that caliber. I measured the groove to groove, last night also, using calipers. It 4 groove and measured about .285 but, I will slug it in the next day or two. The barrel is 750mm long or ~29.5".
One more thing, the receiver to barrel area, is under cut, like it would be for a hand guard on a military rifle. If it weren't for that, I would definitely call it a real commercial rifle, it's the civilian proof marks that call to me and say that it might be.
Frank
Attachment 215136Attachment 215137Attachment 215138Attachment 215139Attachment 215140Attachment 215141Attachment 215143
Frank
Very nice find! Someone did a nice job "sporterizing her as given the undercut receiver, the sights and the length of barrel she was, no doubt, a military rifle at one time. From the site you posted ; "W 1906 roku 5,000 sztuk tych karabinów zostało sprzedanych do Brazylii dla Policji Federalnej w Rio de Janeiro i São Paulo." basically says that in 1906 5,000 rebuilt/rebarreled rifles were shipped to the Brazilian Federal Police in Rio De Janeiro and Sao Paulo.
That would explain the 7x57 instead of 6.5 Portuguese. Also how she found her way here as thousands of Brazilian surplus rifles, many in 7x57, have been imported here over the last 50+ years. Again, nice find....hopefully, and she should, shoot very well.
There are 3 areas of difference, between the Espingarda model and mine:
1. Civilian proof marks
2. No crest stamping and no sign that it has have been removed
3. The trigger guard and hinged floor plate. Mine has a standard type 98 floor plate and release. The Espingarda, has in my opinion, a better release type.
All the 1904's have protective wings on the front sight with flat top , mine has a pointed front sight, much like a 1888 Commission rifle. But, I can't see the Espingarda front sight, well enough to tell what it has. It doesn't seem like they would change that out just for a police model. Hopefully I can find more pictures of the Espingarda.
LG, thank you for interpreting that web site. Do you know what it says about the 1888 and 98?
Frank
A little more info with the same proof marks as mine.
http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/mauser_1904.html
More info on the standard 1904.
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/...S0610/?Page=29
A 1907 variant. It looks like it has my front sight and butt plate.
https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...idproduct=6205
Frank
Frank
LG, thank you for interpreting that web site. Do you know what it says about the 1888 and 98?
Was tied up with an extensive 500 yard test yesterday. I'll see what I can do and post back.
Frank
My Polish isn't that good but it says its a gun modeled after the German Gewehr M98 with the bolt of the Mannlicher-Schonaur infantry Gewehr M88.
Best I can do. Not sure that description is correct but that's pretty much what it says.
Thank you.
I guess that means it's a M88 with a M98, Mauser magazine.
That is a great improvement!
Frank
Yes, that word I interpreted as "bolt" may also refer to the action in Polish milspeak. Glad I could help. Let us know how she shoots?