Need help finding a black powder load for 41 Swiss using the Lee 430 310 grain bullet. I plan on using a black powder substitute for availability reasons. Any recommendations would help. Thanks
Printable View
Need help finding a black powder load for 41 Swiss using the Lee 430 310 grain bullet. I plan on using a black powder substitute for availability reasons. Any recommendations would help. Thanks
I think everyone will say the same load, FILL THE CASE WITH BLACK POWDER leave enough room for a card and bullet.
I only tried black in my Vetterli once and didn't have much luck. I shoot a lot of black in other cartridges so I am interested to see what you find out for loading black in this thread.
I also shoot the Lee 310 in mine with 2400 powder and it shoots extremely well (with or without gas checks doesn't seem to make any difference).
Tom
The issues with these is bore diameter. You have to slug it. No reason to use black. Big boolit and 4227 @ 50 yds. Think of a long bbl 44 Magnum revolver. Kills very dead.
Attachment 201655
Burris IER 3-9 on flat Weaver base JB "welded" on.
Attachment 201656
I use FFg or FFFg Goex, whatever I have, approx. 45 grs under a .429 bullet. OAL has to be 2.2" to feed from the mag.
I just cast a bunch of heeled bullets from an Accurate Mold (#43-310B) made for the Vetterli. I plan on using smokeless and a shorter case to get the OAL.
I use the same bullet in mine. Basically, fill up the case with black powder so you get a small amount of compression when you insert the bullet. Not much, just a little. The OAL HAS to be 2.2" if you want reliable feeding. You may need to size your bullet too. 0.429" was pretty tight on mine, but 0.427" feeds smoothly into the chamber. Use a good lube meant for BP (non petroleum based), and that should help keep the fouling soft. These old vetts can be real tack drivers. They do shoot pretty high at 100 yards though.
I use BP lube but I also spray PAM down the barrel every few shots. That stuff is amazing as a lube.
The rounds loaded with a .429 or .430 bullet would not chamber at first, then someone on this forum suggested one more step: remove the decapping pin from the sizing die and push the loaded round slightly into the die. It works.
With the proper bullet and a shorter case, I'll be able to skip that step.
What charge are you using for the 2400? I'd like to develop a smokeless plinking round so I don't have to clean the heck out of my Vett every time I shoot it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hpbear101
I have been looking for a Swiss Vetterli. Has anyone used powder coated bullets in these? What kind of distance can you shoot them at accurately? Any other education you can give me would be appreciated.
Attachment 202684 Attachment 202685I use the Lee 310, without a GC they usually come out around 295 grains over 18 grains of 2400. I have good accuracy with this load. Of the two targets the shoot-n-see is 100 yds the other is 50 yds. Ive tried it with and without GC, stick lube and tumble lube, dacron and no dacron and they all seem to shoot about the same. My bore is about .426 at the chamber and .425+ at the muzzle, I size to .427 as I am using .348 brass and the chamber gets tight if I go any larger than that.
The front sight on the M78 is a blade that you can use a drift punch and slide it out of the base. I removed my front sight (put it in the butt stock under the plate) and made a 1/2" blade out of a brass key. The 1/2" blade will get you pretty close and you can adjust from there.
My Neighbor has a Vetterli he uses it strictly as a "two nail rifle" (aka purely a wall hanger)
I'd love to get some brass for it to try shooting the old smoke pole!
I use 9 grains of unique over a 240gr cast. I also made my cases 42mm instead of 38mm to handle the shorter bullet. It works swell.
I had a number of these rifles, still have a few. I have made brass from 348 Win.; some will not extract well due to smaller rim. I also made brass from 8 mm Lebel blown out and trimmed. This solves the extraction problem. Oh, and my rifle's bore sizes ranged from .428" to .435".
The old Vetterli has been ignored over years. An odd looking but very reliable and accurate rifle.
My guess is that most people donīt get interested in them because of it extrange looks plus the need to convert them from rimfire to centerfire (a very easy convertion BTW).
I only use BP on mines, except when fire forming cases for it. Not that they cannot use smokeless (in fact, the latest versions of the military round were loaded w/some primitive semi-smokeless powders just before being replaced by the 7.5x55mm. round, IIRC)
40 to 45 gns of FFFg loaded with a drop tube plus a 1/8" felt wad and a lube cookie on top will work very well at 150 meters: firing from a bench and using original iron sights I can keep 10 shot groups in a 8in. circle or less.
I usually cast from a 310 gn. custom mould that was copied from a slug pulled out of an original rimfire round.
Sizing from .429" to 0.431" seems to work OK for all of them, except for my (non-military) Swiss Martini rifle which has an smaller bore: it only works well with bullets sized down to 0.425"; using standard 0.430" will give forgettable 5in groups at 50 yards.
These rifles have very long throats so no need to trim the cases at 38mm. in lenght; they can be longer to hold a few grains more of BP or to accommodate different bullet weights. I have learned this too late, after hacking down to 38 mm. most of my cases. :-|
Argie.
I have one that was converted to 6.5 carcano in 1915 for ww1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob208
IIRC, those were the Italian versions of the swiss Vetterli (a.k.a Vetterli-Vitali rifles).
They were copied from the swiss rifle except for the magazine (the Italians used a single stack magazine instead of the swiss tubular mag).
The italian round was also a variation of the .41 swiss: 10.4mm. Italian Vetterli (a larger, centerfire case).
During WWI some of these rifles were rebarreled to accept the 6,5mm. Carcano round. Iīve heard of this round being too powerful for a somewhat weak bolt design, so only mild loads are recommended for these converted rifles, IIRC.
Argie.
Gentlemen:
I would like to solicit your opinions on my newly acquired Swiss Vetterli. I note that Mazo Kid has referred to the bore diameter variation as 0.428 to 0.435 inches. Is this actually the groove diameter, or does the bore run 0.428 to 0.435 inches? I assume the groove diameter is what he refers to. I am thinking about having Accurate Molds make me up a two cavity mold (both 41 Swiss Vetterli boolits of different styles, one heeled and the other standard). My Vetterli has a bore that measures 0.420" and a groove diameter of 0.438", as measured about three inches from the muzzle. I would be interested in knowing the bore and groove diameters of Vetterlis that y'all shoot and the corresponding boolit diameter and style that has worked well you you who shoot these great ol' rifles.
Depends on the model ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle.
The Swiss Vetterli in question is an 1869 / 71 model.
what enfield said is true and the way to go. I use smokeless loads my self because of the BP, getting into all moving parts, and some that don't move. JMHO.
Argentino, do you have any light loads for it. I would like to try them?
I load 44/40 .427,DIA. 211grain lead heads in mine. any one else use the same heads?
I too use 9 grains of UNIQUE, over a 240 GR. cast lead bullet.
I use 23g of 4227 a 300 grain bullet .Used to use powder coated but now just use plain lubed bullets.Most will be in a 2" group at 100 yards.
WOW!! now that is very impressive!!!
I also have one. converted to 6.5 CARCANO. are they safe to shoot? have you shot yours?
I have been getting good results with 300 to 310 DIA, .430 DIA, 44 MAG bullets as dropped and lubed with LEE ALOX. any one else use this load?