Remember when OWS ammunition came in boxes with labels like this?
Attachment 198933
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Remember when OWS ammunition came in boxes with labels like this?
Attachment 198933
O'l Dangerous Dave - Clever Fellow
I found this box last year. Too bad it was empty.
The 351 Winchester Self loading carbine was ahead of its time. It was really the first assault rifle, before even the Germans had even thought of it. I think at that time that they called it a "Close Quarters Combat" weapon with the extended magazine. I had almost bought one many years ago, but at the time ammunition was difficult to impossible to get. We didn't have the internet at the time of course and figuring out how to reload for it was another problem too. Of course today it is quite doable though.
Attachment 198980
The .351 Winchester carbine would have been a great "trench sweeper" in the Big War. james
I have one (and a .32, .35 and .401 WSL). I use .357 brass (reduce the head diameter with a drill press and file, and no ejection groove cut). Works great. I saw a box of 50 unfired .351 brass in a store yesterday for $80. I'll stick with the .357 brass.
I did find an extra mag and a dozen vintage rounds in a small gunshop last winter for $65.
They are great shooters.
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFXlRzNnGk
Battis,
WHERE are you getting your .401WSL brass OR are you making it??
(My Manual on Cartridge Conversions says to make it from 9.3x72R cases, which are equally hard to find here in Boxer-primed.)
I started to buy a perfectly functional (though it needed a complete refinishing) with a great bore, Model 1910 for 400.oo at the last San Antonio Gun-show but didn't because I could not think of a place to get cases.
(The gentleman, who was trying to sell it to me, stated that it was for sale because he couldn't find ammo or cases. = I chuckled to myself, as I walked away.)
yours, tex
I referred someone else that was looking for it to a vendor sponsor here, but I see that the listing is a few tears old.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nchester-Brass
I make the brass from .414 Super Mag brass. Reduce the head with a file and drill press (I don't cut an ejection groove). Accurate Mold #41-208L. 22 grs IMR4227.
Great shooter. I call it The Big Ouch (it kicks).
The only WSL I don't have is the .22. I had a chance to get one but I passed - the ammo is hard to find.
The recoil springs are available from Wolfe Springs for the .35 and .351 only. I put new buffers in the .35, .351 and .401. The .32 came with about 100 rounds of ammo and the rifle looks like it was fired very little.
I've read any number of accounts of the French in WWI purchasing large numbers of 351 WSL rifles (along with almost anything else capable of firing fixed cartridges they could get their hands on) and put the 351's to good use. They were small enough that the second crewman on an airplane could carry it. Suspect they saw good use in close-in stuff.
I had a 351 and a 401, I wish I had them back,,,,,,,,
Landy88,
In the Summer of 1966, I met & interviewed a US Army WWI pilot for over 5 hours for our local newspaper. - He said that any number of the little Winchester carbines were delivered to the US Army Flying Corps (the predecessor of the USAAC) & used for air to air combat and for "securing the airdrome".
He also told me that the Winchester carbines were frequently used as "trench brooms".
yours, tex
Tex,
What an amazing and great interview to have got to do.
Those pilots did so much that transformed aviation, warfare, and history in such a short span of time.
Landy88,
Indeed it was. - All these years later, I'm pleased that I stopped to look at "the little old man, in a funny looking uniform", that I saw strolling down Hwy 67 toward Dallas. - As a result of my "nosiness", I got him to allow me to interview him for the local paper.
(He was uniformed as a 1LT of the USAFC, complete with WWI backpack.)
Note: At that time I was "a red-hot 18YO" & he seemed ANCIENT to me. - Of course he was then about the same age as I am in 2017.
Turns out that he was an "Official Goodwill Ambassador" for the American Legion Post #1 in Paris, France & said that he was walking across Texas from Texarkana to El Paso & visiting American Legion Posts along the way.
After I interviewed him, he requested that I drop him off at the truck-stop near where I had met him & walked out of sight. = I've often wondered if he made it to El Paso but I heard nothing of him or his "long walk" thereafter.
(That's 814 miles, as the crow flies!!)
yours, tex
401 wsl brass can be made easily from 7.62 x 39 brass and a smidge of Imperial sizing wax with a custom turned 4x ball expander. Fireforms perfectly... :guntootsmiley:
This advice is probably unnecessary, but I'll post it for my own piece of mind: Do everything possible to "baby" those old rifles. Once you have reliable function and decent accuracy from the loads work-up, you're done. Don't be tempted to turn the .351 WSL into a .358 Winchester, and don't try to change a .401 WSL into a .405 Winchester. It's not in the cards, and trying to make it happen will only result in the shooter's disappointment and a very battered rifle.
Kosh75287,
WELL SAID.
I've owned several Model 1907 & Model 1910 carbines over the years and BOTH are perfectly suitable for WT/pigs to about 50KG/medium game, with any load that will reliably cycle the actions.
(Particularly in the .401, any heavy GCCB that cycles the action, fits the case & will chamber is A KILLER on deer. = WTs just aren't that hard to kill.)
ADDENDA: One of my old hunting pals, who has sadly passed on, used to hunt our deer lease with his great uncle's old/"tired-looking" .401, with which he was a "dead shot". - I don't ever recall "Bugs" having to track a wounded deer either.
We often said that if you heard a "BLAMM" in the woods that we would be eating fresh venison that night.
(The .401WSL has a VERY distinctive sound.)
yours, tex
I have a 401 and 2 of the 351s all 3 were first year manufacture.
I have some old ammo for all of them but make brass out of several different calibers. I have molds for boolits when I don't have jacketed ones.
I loves these old guns, first semi automatic assault rifles and the craftsmanship is fantastic not like the grainy black plastic **** today.
I guess you could call them take down as the rear thumb screws takes it apart.
IIRC some single action revolvers were made or modified to fire the .351 cartridge and perhaps the .401.
Never saw one so I don't know if the case was left full length.
I think Herters sold some.
I'm not sure but believe the Herter's 401 PowerMag was a different cartridge - irc made from the 30-30 case?
I'm sure you are correct. I had heard of the revolvers in .351 and .401 and had assumed the .401 powermag was one of these. Perhaps it used the same range of bullets.
PS
I found this.
"In 1924, Joplin, Missouri gunsmith "Pop" Eimer cut down some .401 Winchester Self-Loading cases to 1.25" for use in a Colt Single-Action Army (some reports say the case was based on the .30-40 Krag, but the net result is basically the same). He fit his revolver with a .403" .38-40 barrel and manufactured a custom cylinder for his wildcat. This round became known as the .40 Eimer Special (but one also occasionally finds it referred to as the .400 Eimer, or the .401 Eimer). "
http://www.gunblast.com/Fryxell_Herters401.htm
Is it hard for you guys to find original ammo? I just bought a .351 last year and only fired one shot. I want to save my brass for whenever I reload it, but the **** thing ejects them so far I had trouble finding my one case. The same day I bought the rifle, I picked up 2 boxes of CIL ammo for a decent price. I got a good price on the rifle because it has two different receivers. The bottom one is 1907 and the top is abit later. I dont really care tho since it seems to shoot great :)
The Herter's 401 Power Mag is a .40 caliber cartridge. Case length is the same as .44/.41 Mag.
New brass can be made by running a 41 Mag case all the way into a .401 size die, all the way to the rim. Then using a rod to knock the case out of the die. Like using the old Lyman size dies.
Next the rim needs to be turned down about .003". I chucked the cases in a drill press and lower them to a carbide lathe bit held in the press vise.
Ken
I like my 351, Got redding dies for it, bought new brass for it, loaded a bunch up but have not been out to shoot the new reloads yet.
Also bought some cast bullets for it, but have not loaded them yet, also bought new Wolff recoil spring for it too.
Oh and bought a couple spare recoil buffers too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psa5cgpxib.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psqdblidfw.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psf1fcbbf4.jpg
I've had several 351s and one 401. I did shoot a deer with a 351 but it wasn't one of mine. A buddy has a mint condition 351 that was bought new by his uncle in early 50s. The speciments
I got ahold of were rode hard and put away wet, being prison guard guns. A lot of State Police
had one in their trunk until they were replaced in 70s by Rem 308 700s. I know we're a 401 is
right now, in poor shape for crazy money.
Hello, long time lurker - first time commenter. I own 2 1910's and a 1907. I have managed to amass a significant supply of ammunition for them by surfing auction sites and looking through the odd table at gun shows. I have hunted with mine for quite some time, I have killed several deer and got an elk with the 401 last fall at 180 yards (2 shots, both through the chest quartering away). I wholeheartedly agree with the gentleman who suggests to stay away from hotrodding them at all - watched a beautiful 1910 turn into scrap from such a venture. I devised a leather shield that directs the brass at my feet which works quite well. I would really like to know how to keep the forend from splitting, I bought 2 repro pieces that I put on for use, but even one of those I see has a small split starting from the whack of that weight. Any suggestions would be great!!
I appreciate your forum a great deal - fun topics!!
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I have my grandfathers 1910 .401SL. He passed away in 1939 and his sons kept it and used it as a deer rifle in northern MN for years. The last time it was shot was approximately 35 yrs ago. I'll have to dig it out, clean it up and run a few rounds through it.
To repair a split or cracked forend, I use a piece of fiberglass and West Systems two part epoxy for reinforcement (on inside).
Also, make sure that the spring is still strong, and replace the buffer(s) if needed.
I shot my first two deer with a 351 back in 1962, 30 miles north of Klamath Falls Oregon while stationed at Kingsley Field. Compared to the whiz-bang ammo people think they need to down a critter now days, the 351 was and still is a very viable cartridge.
You guys with your 401's are so lucky to be able to make ammo out of 7.62X39 brass. The brass coming out of the chamber was like a secondary projectile and get lost too easily.
30-odd years ago as I was perusing the used stuff shelf in the gun department at the Kittery trading post in Kittery Maine I came across a partial box of 351WSL ammo which promptly want into my shopping cart
at the time I had ideas of breaking it down and trimming it to length to chamber in my 38super (pre series 70) that was as precise as a slingshot, but I managed to get a national Match barrel before I got around to doing anything with those old cartridges, I recently discovered I still have them seventeen of them.... Not enough to justify buying a rifle that they'll fit, but...
At the Kittery Trading Post, I have bought a .351 WSL, a .35 WSL and a .401 WSL. I got a .32 WSL about a half hour away in MA. I recently bought another .351 in NH that I tried to trade at the Kittery Trading Post for a Marlin 1889 but they wouldn't give me what I wanted for it. They had a full box of factory .351 ammo last spring for $80, and a box of .351 brass for $90 (which made no sense - the brass was more than the loaded cartridges).
I still make my .35 and .351 WSL ammo from .38 and .357 brass, using 38/357 dies. Works great.
case diameter and rim size of the 38 super and the .351 are nearly identical. I don't imagine this is a coincidence. I had many .351's over the years. Should have kept a few. All of the self loaders are gone except the .35 SL my grand mother shot a deer out of the kitchen with 100 years ago. :)
Too bad the M1 carbine wasn't chambered for the .351! 😕
Many police departments used the 351 win.
After reading about these I may have to go to a local auction next week, has four of them! Years ago I traded into a beautiful .401, but could never find ammo, so traded it away