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My rifle seems to be shooting a little less accurate then it once did. 1.5 moa @100 seems to be about it with cast and jacket.
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My rifle seems to be shooting a little less accurate then it once did. 1.5 moa @100 seems to be about it with cast and jacket.
Try polishing it out first.
Josh
What rifle is it?
For .30 caliber, I like to cast a 0.490" pure lead ball and install a brass shaft.
I chuck it into a drill and use valve lapping compound. Others use round head brass screws using the same procedure.
If you're going to cut a new crown anyway, you might as well try this first!
Regards,
Josh
1952 Remington 760 3006.
I don't see anything that would be an obvious dead giveaway but I also don't see sharply defined rifling either so, it could likely be improved upon by recrowning. I would contact 4D rentals and see if they have a Manson crown cutter kit they can rent you.
The thing you want to be careful to look for is any lands that are worn from cleaning rods, in this case the barrel may need to be cut back as much as it takes to clean up the tapered lands. Some need an inch cut off some only need 1/4" yours doesn't look too bad down 1/4" from the muzzle, I would try recrowning it first and see if the lands and grooves become more sharply defined and if they do which they should, just go shoot it and see if there is any improvement.
I am sure you will get numerous suggestions as to how to recrown, everything from a lead ball to a brass screw, I don't do anything that isn't piloted off a mandrel that centers off the lands. None of the other methods will have the same degree of concentricity and I don't like doing nothing halfassed so my suggestion would be try and locate a Manson crown cutter kit for 30 caliber.
Yeah, polish first. The scratches look shallow.
I'm assuming it was once sub-moa? Lots of the old rifles weren't.
Regards,
Josh
.
It might be just the pic, but I don't like the shape the rifling in the last inch or so of the bore seems to be in - it doesn't look sharp to me.
If it got worn by cleaning from the muzzle end (maybe by a previous owner ? ), it could be the cause of your loss of accuracy.
If worn rifling seems to be the root of your problems, it might be rather easily cured by shortening.crowning the barrel & relocating the front sight.
.
I would try lapping a new crown onto it. You can do this using several different things for lapps. A brass round head screw will work, As will a round nose bullet lead or jacketed fmj. A brass ball. start with a medium grit valve grinding compound and slowly work in a figure 8 pattern letting the compound cut don't force it. I would coat the muzzle with a bright ink then use this as a guide to see how cutting is going. A magnifying glass is also a big help.
I have a lathe.
+10^^^ best lol I have had on this board in a while!Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKEMASTER
Meaning I have no idea what I'm doing ?Quote:
Originally Posted by maxreloader
A pin turned to a snug fit in the bore to indicate it in, A sharp HSS cobalt tool I use a very short boring type tool. Recut the crown in to the muzzle and remove burrs with the brass ball and lapping compound. A lot of disassembly to get in the machines spindle though.
From the looks of the original toolmarks it looks like the bore is very concentric with the outside of the barrel tube, I would have no issues crowning it in a lathe. I do lots of crowns in my lathe. If concentricity is close enough go for it the boolits will never know the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKEMASTER
i think i might sit down with some old heavy military rounds and do a very very very important 5 shot group with this gun & 50 yards.
im finally realizing the last 6-7 outings ive been using my other hand and its been breezy.
i think ill use my dominant shooting hand and see if my gun is getting less accurate or if i am.
id be happier if it was me, cause the only way to cure that disease is to shoot more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait a minute! If I had a 65 year old Remington pump that shot 1 1/2MOA I would be tickled!
My guess in your case though is that god only knows how many passes with a cleaning rod without benefit of a bore guide have been done to the old girl. (Plus it looks like it could use a good cleaning now- could be the simplest source of your anxiety.) Cleaning from the muzzle for decades without a guide is a surefire way to induce wear in the rifling out at the end which can certainly effect accuracy.
Still in all, 1 1/2MOA with a 65 year old Remington shucker isn't bad at all. Some would kill for that.
Having a lathe means you can do a nice job of cutting the barrel back smidge and cut a new crown if you need to.
I think you're smart to shoot some purpose-built ammunition to find out if any work needs to be done. If you're not satisfied you can dress the crown with abrasives like the other guys said (I'd start that way because it works and it's easy). If that doesn't satisfy you… You have a lathe.
I have access to nine different lathes but my boss owns them and he's not real keen on gunsmithing in the shop :sad:
I can personally tell you that the gun has been in my family since new, i can also personally say, that i never knew the proper way to clean a gun/muzzle guard until this site up to just a few months ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
and i can also-personally say- that back when dad brought this gun out ( after me only shooting 22lr) that i would scrub/clean/soak the barrel until matches were white coming out. i always heard the cleaning rod grind along the barrel.
you live, you learn, and i tend to hold things sentimental. so if this old gun will shoot my hunting cast loads @ a descent pattern itl ill leave it alone......
right now, itl shoot any cast lead bullet @ 1.5 to 2 moa @ 100 yards... i shot 40, 160 gr ranchdog bullets with no gas checks@ 100 yards last weekend and it tattered my 2" bullseye. same with j-words and lead spitzer bullets.
Plenty of deer killing accuracy there. Stick primarily with cast bullets, clean it carefully, and forget about nutsing around with the crown and/or shortening the barrel and go forth and kill stuff and then pass it down to an heir and let him continue its use.
I'm sentimental to a point, but realism and pragmatism rules my approach to this stuff.
What Josh said. A pump 30-06 that old that shoots 1.5"@100 yds is good to go on big game as it is. Pulling a barrel to re- crown it on a lathe is wasted money IMO. All you need is a smooth exit for the bullet and this is easily accomplished by hand by many methods. I have cut and recrowned dozens of barrels by hand with no loss of accuracy and frequently improvement of accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Smith
Best, Thomas.
Keep in mind, many factory rifles will shoot no better than 1.5". Some aren't even that good.
What do you clean with. I would recommend something at least as good as Shooters choice, to remove any copper fouling, along with lead an carbon. Also, wondering if you go back and forth, between jacketed and cast, if so, you need to clean out any reside of one, before going to the other, trust me, been there done that, makes a big difference.
There's no way to tell what the problem is from this far off, but FWIW, I recently cleaned the barrel of my preacher's 7 mag, that had been shooting less well than he was used to. First couple of efforts got the black stuff off the copper, and I could see the bore was badly coppered. I laid in on it with a good copper cleaner, and over 2 hrs. later, and many repeated efforts, finally got almost all the copper out. He shot it later, and said it was shooting as well as ever. He was very happy. This is just another possibility.
i took the gun apart last night and my dad is making shims to put it in his lathe... this weekend, im going to scrub the heck out of it with a name brand copper cleaner and let it sit over night . basically, im going to clean the bore as best as i can and see where it stands @ the range...
then, ill polish the crown if need be. ive lost interest in a new crown.
You said you have a lathe? Go find a piece of brass dowel .500" or larger four of five inches long. If you do not have access to pin gauges, turn front back 2-3 inches down to .305" or so and keep taking .001" till tight slip fit in muzzle. If it just fits in muzzle and will not go in, there is your muzzle wear and muzzle cut back may be in future. Then cut 11 degree face at end of shaft and turn back end if required to fit a drill motor. Oil front of shaft and put some 320 lapping on face of mandrel and I would hand hold barrel, hand turn and or drill to let all float. Pull trigger in direction of twist on a slow speed, touch for a second or two then remove and inspect. Black Sharpie up and again till happy. Face of cutter gets ugly, throw back in lathe and reface. Can of brake clean to spray in barrel from chamber end to flush to keep abrasive out of bore, keep pilot lubed. How I used to do it until that way too expensive cutter shown up here. 1.5 MOA out of a skinny barrel Rem carbine, I would say you have a great one! My long ago experience was they were ammo picky and strung when warming.
thank you all for the input and advise.......JOKES ON ME
my lathe wont fit the barrel.
looks like ill be putting up with 1.5 moa lolololol jk
Like others said your accuracy isn't bad at all for a pump rifle. It's too big for shooting squirrels and plenty accurate for everything bigger.
David
Clean with some lead removal cloth. Many reps with the cleaning rod w/ a tight fit. Use a bore guide to protect the that crown. Use a copper cleaner(I like janitorial strength ammonia - 10% not the household 3%) to remove any copper. Any good copper solvent will be good. You may want to do these several times each. Alternate if it's been shot with copper then lead, etc. If that doesn't help you out, you might want to try a LIGHT fire lapping with very mild abrasive. Even a hand lapping might help. Good luck.
Meaning a lathe can solve almost any problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKEMASTER
Well..........yeah, pretty much! My one and only experience with a crown involved a Yugo SKS that wouldn't shoot for sour apples. After eliminating everything else, I looked at the crown and decided it needed help. Foolishly, I grabbed a tapered reamer and tried to do it by hand so the result was predictable....it shot worse! I finally stripped it down to just the receiver/barrel and chucked it in my 4 jaw with a steady rest. After dialing the whole thing to truth, I simply used a small boring bar to counter bore the muzzle about 1/8 inch. This "broke" the rifling and the result looks like many target gun muzzles. The result is a rifle that shoots better than I can hold it.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxreloader