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The last time I went through my pan lube and sizing process, I found myself dreaming of the simplicity (or so it seems) of a lube sizer. Of course I think it's safe to say the Rolls Royce in most people's opinion is the Star. However, I shoot a whole lot more rifle than pistol bullets. I've read in several thread the Star is more set up for pistol than longer rifle bullets. I don't understand. Can someone please explain?
I don't know why someone would say that. With star dies you block unneeded holes with lead shot. I have a Star and an RCBS. I can get you a used RCBS unit for $125 plus $5 each for dies. Shipping will be extra.
I have a star and it lies unused in the loft at present it is a fine sizer, fast and works well however I do find the change over of sizers fiddly with the setting up of the sizers for different bullets.
When I was shooting thousands of pistol rounds of one calibre a month it was my go to sizer but now that I am shooting multiple calibres and differing bullet diameters in batches of 200 at the most I find the Lyman and RCBS sizers far easier for change overs.
I currently have 3 RCBSs, 3 Lyman 45s, 1 Lyman 450 and a SAECO copy on my bench all bought second hand for less that a new Star. For my needs this set up is far superior in ease of use and setting than the Star but if volume sizing/lubing in one or two diameters with one or two bullet designs with the same lube then the Star is the machine to go for.
I have two stars and 1 lyman. The problem for me with rifle bullets on the star with pointed nose is the point gets flattened and it does not seat the gas check very well on the preceding bullet. So I use the lyman for pointed rifle bullets and the stars for all pistol bullets and round nose rifle bullets. One of the stars belongs to my buddy Duke in Florida and he leaves it set up at my house because we do all casting and sizing here. So one is set up for small calibers and one for large calibers. I do not find it hard at all to change caliber dies in the star, it takes me about 5 min. We shoot anywhere from 800 to 1500 rounds a month each so we find that for us the stars are our choice to size and lube our bullets.
Solve the ENTIRE goopy mess of oily lubes and simply PC everything. I had a Lyman 4500; and a Star with emphasis on HAD; now I simply PC it and forget it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dromia
PC? What is PC?
Powder coating.
Powder Coat
At present, I'm only casting one rifle bullet and two pistol bullets. More rifle than pistol............but, of course, when I lube pistol bullets I have to lube a lot more of them. The maximum number of rifle calibers I'll ever be casting is 3 and it would be 3 for pistols also. And to be honest, I seldom lube more than a hundred rifle bullets at a time and maybe 200 pistol bullets. So would the Star actually be overkill for me?
I agree with the coating. I started with powder coat and now use Hi-tek, I don't miss wax lubes a bit.
Ill stick with pan lubing, cheap, simple, & effective.
Tried the powder coating and the epoxy, more grief and more mess, that PC powder is worse than the old lyman black lube, also it gave me no benefits in velocity or accuracy. I suspect it may have its place in volume casting at pistol velocities but definitely not for me, hells teeth people are now powder coating and lube sizing!!!
Still, each to his own.
I agree with dormia. I would never get rid of the Star as it is the most efficient way to lube large quantities of bullets IF you are not constantly changing bullets. The "traditional" lube/sizers have their place. I have also added BLL to the mix as it makes sense for me.
Having to bake on a coating is a step that does not appeal to me. There is an advantage of no lube bleed if you load hunting or defensive lead bullets but I use jacketed bullets for those applications. The PC bullets will give little or no smoke if that is a concern on indoor ranges.
Your needs will determine what is best for you, but needs can change so there is no one "right" answer. You also need to factor in what your time is worth. If time is not important, something like a Star is difficult to justify even if you shoot 1000's of the same bullet.
Don Verna
I'm one of those nut-jobs that will lube over PC but only because PC allows you to manipulate the size of the CB's. PC works fine for pistol and pistol velocities but not so much for rifles, IMHO and experience. It is not slick and is not a lube. If it was then it would take less effort to size than when dry. It is a barrier and size modifier, that's all. Adding a mist of One Shot or other lube drastically decreases the effort needed to size therefore PC is not slick.
The barrier is significant as it allows higher velocities in rifles using PB designs than without coating. However in my experience when reaching around 1700fps with 30cal things get goofy with PC'd CB's after 20 or such shots in that accuracy drops off and ES & SD become lousy as well as accuracy. Hard fouling was observed and took some effort to clean.
When Ben's Red was added to the lube grooves this problem disappeared and velocities were increased to beyond 2000fps before accuracy started dropping off again. No hard fowling was detected and cleaning was easy.
My sample is small and I use only a single PC material source but these were my experiences. YMMV
The Star sizes nose first which to me means that it is more concentric in sizing bullets, I use the Star every chance I get.
I coat with hi-tek while casting and sizing makes the entire process pretty simple, I use a small "D" shaped paint bucket with disposable liners to tumble coat them in, once I throw the liner away after a session the only thing there is not much to clean up.Quote:
Tried the powder coating and the epoxy, more grief and more mess,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tWaN5PrTY
My powder coating experience was a bit more messy but I didn't stick with PC very long.
I find seating/crimping Gas checks can be a bit of a pain...But plain base rifle or pistol, in the Star is the cat's meow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris C
The star is tricky to adjust. You have to physically plug certain holes in the sizer die with lead shot to control where the lube goes. Once you do this, you are set unless you change bullets then you need to reposition the plugs. I had a Star and enjoyed it but let it go and kept my two RCBS units. They are easier to set up. Why two? Well, one has BP lube, the other smokeless lube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris C
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My only experience with a Star sizer thus far is with one in the basement of Dale53. He had it all set up and ready to go for 32 bullets, sizing them to .313” while simultaneously lubricating them with hard Carnauba Red and a heater underneath. I liked it so much I traded into one of my own (with a .358” die) but I’ve never gotten it set up and running because…
I also have 2 Lyman 450 and 5 Ideal #1 lubricant-sizers set up with classic NRA 50-50 lubricant. Right now, they get everything done I need at the moment, but my long term desire is to duplicate the arrangement Dale53 has made. It works! :D
Dale 53 taught me the pan lubing strategy I currently use and is also trying to encourage me to try some of the liquid coatings. So many fun things to do, so little time! :roll:
Chris:
There is no "overkill." There is only "open fire" and "reload." And the Star works just fine with both rifle and pistol boolits.
Longer answer: I am a huge fan of the Star sizer. Got my first from a long-term poster here who has taught me more about cast than anyone. He didn’t care for it and sold it cheap; it was more of a gift than a sale. I have since added two other Stars to the inventory.
I use the Stars and Lyman 45/450 and RCBS sizers. They all fit into the same footprint on my bench; the heated Star lives there filled with Carnauba Red and is replaced as needed. The other two hold different lube formulas. One Star filled with Felix’s World Famous Lube is reserved for rifle bullets, but does see an occasional handgun bullet for use in a pistol caliber carbine. The third Star will likely be filled with Carnauba Blue or Ben’s Red if I ever get a roundtoit on making the Red.
Changing the die/changing the lube holes for a different boolit isn’t hard. A notebook is definitely your friend here. A small drill bit will remove any lead shot stopping lube from flowing through the die. Plug holes that need to be plugged and size away. Record the plugged holes in your notebook, along with the measurement from the bottom of your nose punch to the top of the size die. This distance makes future changes much easier. If you don’t record these items you have to discover them again every time.
I almost never use pointed boolits. I have sized some using a pistol bullet as a ‘pusher’ to avoid damage to the tip. Or, they could be sized base first with a conventional nose punch. Most don’t know the Star was designed for base-first sizing; I sure didn’t.
Gas checks have always seated fine for me. If in doubt, use the Lyman with a GC seating tool to seat the checks and size with the Star if you like.
The Star is more expensive, and used sizer dies aren’t as available. They are also more expensive. I have dies for all my most common diameters and use the other sizers for small numbers of boolits.
More information than you requested, but I hope it helps.
Tony
A religious cult. [smilie=l:Quote:
Originally Posted by omgb
Nice use of the search function, how many pages was it to get to a 6 year old thread?
I hope the OP is happily shooting away, he hasn’t been back this year.
As I said, the Star is an excellent tool but, it’s better suited to huge runs of one particular bullet than short runs of different bullets. The straight through sizing allows you to really crank out bullets. Also, if you size nose first you don’t need fiddley fitted nose punches. But if you need to change bullets frequently the RCBS design is going to be easier. I suspect that the Star is less likely to misalign when sizing. I can’t prove it though. Verbal Smith swears by the Star. I guess he’s more knowledgeable than I but he tends to use hyperbole too so YMMV [emoji16]Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris
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IMHO I think Stars are woefully overrated, not to mention overpriced!
For the person that shoots one round at a time and a day at the range is 10 or 20 rounds, a Lyman, RCBS or similar lube sizer is perfect. Same for low volumes of lots of different calibers. For someone that shoots IDPA, USPSA, steel plate, etc. the Star is a bargain.
I use my Star for high volumes like .40 S&W and .38/.357 but for .44 mag and my other low volume sizing a Lyman 450 is perfect.