Gas checks not seated right

Hello, been lurking here for some time now and just started casting bullets for the first time.

I bought the Lee C324-175-1R bullet mold, Hornady gas checks and Lee .323 sizer and the plan is to use the bullets in my K98 Mauser. Bullets cast at .325 and the bore slugs at .324.

The issue is when I am seating the gas checks using the sizing die, the shank seems to be too big. Gas checks are not seated fully onto the bullet.

Picture of some bullets, left one I pounded the gas check on before sizing. Middle just used the sizing die to seat the gas check. Right is as cast
Attachment 171620
Any advice on how to get them on easier than using a hammer? is the one in the middle safe to shoot? The gas checks in the middle are on there tightly

six i think your problem is the mold not the gas check. i have a lee 30-30 mold that is the same way. i have to use sage 303 checks on it and i still have to tap them on. its a pain in the *** so i ordered a new mold.

Six, can you post the dimension of the gas check shank? We have run into a couple of Lee Molds like this and might be able to help with an extra thin check.

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Al at NOE Moulds sells a cool stainless steel hand tool for lightly chamfering boolit bases to ease GC seating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elwood4884

Six, can you post the dimension of the gas check shank? We have run into a couple of Lee Molds like this and might be able to help with an extra thin check.

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The base of the bullet measures 0.303-0.304. The inside diameter of the GC is 0.3005 and the outside diameter is 0.335

I used a flared punch to flare out some gas checks and it worked great.

Now I have about 150 bullets that have the gas check not fully seated though. Scrap them or shoot them?

Life is too short to be shooting D grade cast bullets.

Re-Melt and try again.

I know I am stepping on some toes, but your problem is the Lee Mold and you won't even be close to the head of the line of those that have had the same problem. My suggestion is if you want to gas check start out with a quality mold and re-cast the bullets.

If the base of your finished bullet is not flat and perpendicular then just get a shotgun because that is what your groups will look like. My oldest GC mold was made by H&G 76 years ago and produces beautiful bullets, so a good performing mold is nothing new. NOE makes quality molds as well as many others and the few extra dollars you spend will be well worth it in the long run.

This could fix your problem:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-Max-molds

It is indeed the mould's fault, but not a bad fault, and if the results are otherwise satisfactory, buying a new and more expensive replacement is an extreme measure. You aren't ending up in a bad situation, for you can be sure that after sizing your gas-checks will be tight far beyond any danger of detaching in flight. The only things wrong with the hammer method are trouble, inconsistency and in particular the possibility of the check being slightly canted.

If you were using a GH&I die set with a nose punch, to size base first, it would be easy. You could just set it up to press the check gently against a piece of metal held against the bottom of the die, then remove it and press all the way through. Or use the right punch with a slightly larger die, since the bottom of the internal plunger will be exactly square.

I assume, though, that you are using the normal Lee size and lube die, which sizes nose first. You could do the above with this if it was a flat-nosed bullet, or use a smaller die to stop the bullet at the shoulder if it was a SWC. As it is, you would need some sort of little bushing to insert in the mouth of the die to stop the bullet entering. I'd look at smaller cases, larger bullet jackets or pieces of old plastic pen.

Check the base of the boolit for any flashing of lead. A cartridge case deburr tool will bevel the edge enough the gas check should slide on. I do have one Lyman mold that has an oversized shank. The boolits are about 18BHN so I use a rubber mallet to tap the nose of the boolit while it is setting in the gc. Seats them with no issues.

Had the very same mold, and the very same problem. I would tap the checks onto the shanks with a block of wood not to deform the nose.
Gas checks would still fly off mid flight.

Bought an 8mm mold from Accurate molds, and the gas checks snap on with a positive click and I find flattened gas checks around my steel targets now. Shooting and loading is enjoyable now not to mention leaps and bounds more accurate..

Was the tipping point for me and Lee molds.

I've used the pusher from 1 Lee sizing die in the die mounted in my press and a pusher from another to press gas checks on contrary boolits with the press keeps them square

Once the check is seated just powder coat and it will be bonded to the bullet.
Attachment 172679

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nueces

Al at NOE Moulds sells a cool stainless steel hand tool for lightly chamfering boolit bases to ease GC seating.

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This solved the problem for me for that mold, and those gas checks. There is a little flare or flash around the base, trim that off and they went much easier.
I have the manual and the drill version of the tool. I like the drill one better BUT only if the drill motor is self supporting or light weight (like power screwdriver). Holding a large battery drill is work.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=21

At $15.50 it is a tool that just comes in handy. I use it on .224 cast bullets also, that one 80% of the bullets gas check just snaps on when I push bullet down into it, the other 20% do if I give it a couple of turns with the tool to trim the base. Use tool to remove base flash from powder coating too. Works well for that.

Also found that a touch of lubricant (lee sizing) made sizing smoother. That lube washes off with hot water and still allows me to powder coat. I'm using a smaller C press so pushing those big 8mm through was work.

On scrap or shoot, you might try:
Using a drill press with a steel rod in the chuck to press down on the nose of the bullet to fully seat the check. You can set drill press stop to keep from over doing it.

Or putting a sizer push rod from another die with a bit of masking tape wrapped on the shaft to make it tight fit inside your sizer bore, then insert that rod into the sizer with the big end down. You then push the nose of the bullet into the flat base of that extra rod using your normal sizing process. The tape also pads the inserted sizing rod so that it does not scuff our gouge the .323 sizing die.

Is going to push the nose down a tiny touch but those are already blunt nosed bore riders so it won't hurt anything. You may want to run them through sizer afterwards. Squishing the top down could cause the bullet to get pushed outward in the middle, tiny amount. Like make 9mm fit 38 special better amount. Or if you need an extra thousandth of diameter for a worn bore.

I have one of those 1/2 ton arbors from HF. Once I place the GC on and hold it in place I move it to the arbor and gently apply pressure--not a lot, just enough to fully seat the gas check--loose checks no more.

Since I had to arbor cost for this is just a bit more time per bullet and I don't shoot enough GC for this to be a problem

I just drilled and tapped the end of the NOE chamfer tool and inserted an 8-32 length of screw. Now the tool fits either a Lyman or RCBS Case Prep Station. So knocking off tags or beveling the base is a one handed operation.

Attachment 172681

Nice mod Dragonheart.

I used one of these https://www.grainger.com/product/BLA...AS01?$smthumb$ or something much like it, people also use those drills with a wide battery under the handle, they can just set them on the workbench sitting on the battery. I have an old Makita with the long handle & long battery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nueces

Al at NOE Moulds sells a cool stainless steel hand tool for lightly chamfering boolit bases to ease GC seating.

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Good to hear I actually have one of these tools on the way!!

Six, I had that problem but have fully resolved it.Started out opening up gas checks so they would fit, helped but still didn't eliminate crooked primers. I have access to a home shop lathe and cut 1 1/2 in long pieces of 1 inch shafting. The blank was chucked up and a hole that would fit the as cast was drilled through from end to end. I then bored out a place at one end to fit the gas check. In use a gas check is placed in the small bored out section with cup turned ah set upright on an anvil or flat steel plate. a cast bullet is then dropped in from the top. A top punch made from appropriate size rod center drilled out and plastic steel is used make a perfect form for the bullet end. A couple of raps seats the gas check in perfect axis alignment. Bullet with seated gas check is then run through push through sizer to size and final crimp gas check. This axis alignment system works with both powder coated or non powder coated bullets, A number of blind tests with our shooting group found the best accuracy occurred with bullets that had gas checks seated, crimped and sized before powder coating. They would also be resized after powder coating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ballistics in Scotland

If you were using a GH&I die set with a nose punch, to size base first, it would be easy.

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As John Barlow, who patented the Gas Check in 1907, intended for it to be done.

I love waking up an old thread!

I bought this same mold, the Lee C324-175-1R. It has driven me nuts. I couldn’t get my checks to seat properly. The sage/gator checks were to small. I made a punch to enlarge them. I tried seating them nose first. I tried base first. I tried sizing first, then seating the check, both ways. I tried annealing. I was destroying half my boolits. The half that survived were sub standard.

I gave up this weekend and drilled out the mold to be a plain base mold. I’m happy with how it turned out. A little rough on the finished bore, but concentric. I think that I can get these boolits to shoot ok at slower velocity, about 1200 FPS.

I have an Ideal 311291 that works great with gas checks and the Lee sizers. I knew that it could work. I knew I wasn’t crazy.

Reading this thread was cathartic. I’m not the only one! This mold is a problem, when used with Lee sizing dies.

I have an NOE 325365 five cavity coming in the mail. Fingers crossed!

JM

I own several items made by Lee that work quite well, but the two Lee bullet molds are not one of them. If I ever get around to building a forge to melt aluminium the Lee Molds will be the first to go into the pot.

Buying a NOE mold was a good decision. Not to put sour grapes on your mold choice, but if you are going for full power loads and want good accuracy beyond 50 yards I personally have had no success with a spitzer design bullets simply because it will be a non-concentric (lopsided) bullet when it comes out of the mold. They will shoot well at short range.

I’m looking to run the NOE around 1500-1600 FPS. I have read that this boolit tops out around 1800 FPS, anything above that and accuracy falls off quickly.
I’m hoping that the spritzer design will help with some feeding issues I have with this rifle. It depends on how far out I can seat these boolits before they engage the rifling.
I’m gonna be sizing these down to .318”. I have a .323” sizer to seat the checks and a .314” that has been opened up to .318” . So who knows what’s going to happen.
I’m just trying to get this old Arisaka with a huge .3165” barrel, and a sloppy chamber, that has feeding issues, to make three inch groups at a hundred yards with iron sights. Again fingers crossed.
JM

The spitzer should correct the feeding issues and it sounds like your goals are realistic, except the 3" groups may be more difficult to acheive. The problem I found with spitzer's is the long tapered nose has no barrel contact. At some point velocity & distance is going to cause a lopsided cast bullet to start to wobble, once it starts it will only get worse and accuracy goes out the window.
So you have choices to make; reduce the velocity, reduce the distance or make a concentric bullet. Of course your choice of powder will determine how the bullet gets to velocity. I personally started out by finding the best load for the rifle using a similar commercial bullet and then use that information to work up a load for cast. So far trying spitzer's in 4 different calibers I haven't found anything I am happy with, but I am not wanting low velocity loads. I wish you luck.

If the mold is made to proper specs the gas check should just snap on, otherwise you would be wise to get the NOE tools to bevel the base and install the gas checks on your press.

NOE Gas Check Seating Die Product Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwaw0kqNJRY

Seating (crimping) Gas Checks cheap and easy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EY2xK5PY4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conditor22

NOE Gas Check Seating Die Product Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwaw0kqNJRY

Seating (crimping) Gas Checks cheap and easy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EY2xK5PY4

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Conditor22,

I had not seen these two seating and crimping methods. I really like using the Lee factory crimp collet die to crimp a gas check.

I may be buying a few more tools. I always tell myself it's only one more tool and that I can stop anytime I want to. That I don't have a tool addiction problem.

Thanks for the info.

JM

Got one of these from NOE for a couple of large based .312 molds.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...hp82d81ign5ve3

Get some VHT high temp (1200F) paint and a small brush. Apply to mould GC shank sparingly, let dry, heat mould a couple times (400F). Cast with it. Apply GC, easy now. Normal shank for 30 is 284, often too big. Shrink a couple thous. and bingo. I got the NOE expander, works OK but have to pry the GC off it.

For those who have tried it.....Will aluminum gas checks seat any easier on the oversized Lee shanks? I've never used aluminum gas checks but I do have a couple of the offending molds.
Thanks,
Rick