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I read on another site that the Benjamin Rogue .357 is avail.? Again?....If this gun works out, it would be the ultimate cast boolit airgun.
I think this gun had some early problems, maybe with leaks or some such, and with all the plastics and electronics, it may not be to everyone's tastes, but worth a look!!
yes, they are available through crosman. pyramyd dropped the gun from their line as there were too many problems and returns early on. those issues are supposedly resolved, but the gun is now, not nearly as adjustable as it was at the beginning. i have only heard of a few guys with the new Mk, but when they first came out it seemed they were destined for failure. we will see how it shakes out, but not for me personally. i cant get past the looks, or the fact that it runs on batteries, i dont even like red dot sights for that reason!LOL;)
Too expensive and looks ugly. Get on the list for one of the custom big bore PCP's made by the various airgun smiths (Quackenbush, XP, Extreme Bigbore...) It'll cost less, be more accurate and won't be prone to problems with all the electronic gadgetry.
Baja; From what I've seen, most of those guns get their power at the expense of number of shots per fill, a non-starter for me, plus most of them look like they were whipped up in someone's basement......the price that I've seen for the Rogue is $1200, which is kind of a bargain compared to some.
the rogue does not get many shots per fill either. not at high power, when they say up to 20 shots, that is at the lowest power setting witht he lightest projectile. at the higher "deer adequate" levels. you are looking at less than a mag full. i believe it was somewhere along the lines of 4-5 good shots on high? could be mistaken. it has been a while since i checked them out.for deer i would prefer a sam yang 909. tuned it is less money, more power, same or better shot count. .45 caliber, you can use any boolit you want as there is no mag to limit length.and you dont have to worry about batteries crappin out. :D
The Crosman is not a rifle that I have any interest in .But I believe they make a single shot tray for it . And as far as the list goes . DAQ is the only one I know that makes rifles as a full time business . The rest do it as a hobby or a second business, or second job . And when things are going good with the first line of income rifle making gets put on hold . It is not un commend to wait for 1 or 2 years for a rifle after being placed on a list . That is why many buy a Korean and have it tuned . Not always my first choice but it can be your only choice sometimes . IMO they need to be tuned . The issue I have with o rings is not un commen but I am pressing a hunting rifle to do a target rifle job . Not everyone will go through o rings as fast as I do . And I think I can get the .357 straighten out with the right o ring . GL.Marvin
I hear some references to "deer-hunting-power to shot-numbers" in some of the posts here and it makes me wonder about what they're envisioning with the purchase of such an air rifle.
If you're like me when you go deer hunting with a firearm, I'll fill my three shot magazine and have one in the chamber. That's just four rounds; and most of the time I don't even get a shot off. I'll also have twenty more rounds stored in my back pack that I'll never use on that hunt either.
It's nice to have a whole lot of full power shots at your disposal when ever you're out hunting but on an air rifle-deer hunt, how many full power shots do you really need?
Back when I had my SamYang 909 I'd shoot 45 cal lyman devastators out of it and for the most part they shot quite well. With deer hunting accuracy at ranges more like those you'd expect in archery hunting, (with 75 yards being the max for me) one well placed shot with one with one of those devastator slugs would have been more than sufficient to put a deer down. And I'd still have four or five full power shots left over.
A bad elboy forced me to stop archery hunting so I went to the 909 air rifle thinking that I could use the same hunting tactics I used when archery hunting. And I believe this logic really applies here because when archery deer hunting the most arrows I ever carried was six. I've only successfully harvested three archery-deer in my life time. (I started hunting in my mid 30s)
When deer hunting with an Air Rifle, why do we think we need more than five or six shots? I could see the benefit if we're plinking or rabbit hunting but, for deer I just don't follow the logic.
HollowPoint
Hollowpoint
you just never know when one of those herds of Carnivorous Tree climbing deer will show up .. when they do better be armed to the teeth :) :)
I aim for 1 shot 2 if it happens to move as I pull the trigger .. 3 shots I did something wrong or I have at least 2 deer on the ground
The FX Boss 30, will take out deer where legal. Mine will shoot a 46 gr pellet at 850 FPS. Out to 50 yards head shot will put them down. Will be trying it on coyotes! Pete
I think too many people mistake the "we get one everytime out" that we see on the hunting TV shows and forget the fact that sometimes those guys sit in a tree for an entire season waiting for a certain deer or for that matter any deer to come into range. I wonder why they do this? Maybe they are getting paid to do it?
I know I watched the Crush with Lee and Tiffany the other night and he bagged this monster White tail. He mentioned that he had sat in the tree stand, or was it a blind, for 51 days! waiting for this deer to show up. This is way beyond my patience limit.
The big difference between him and the real people on this site is that Lee Lacosky has TV show and gets paid to sit in that blind for 51 days, and makes a damn good living doing it. He also is a Farmer and does that too, so the two income streams kind of complement each other. I say more power to him that he has been able to set his life up like this and be successful doing it. I doubt he is getting rich doing either one, but he is definitely having fun doing it. His wife is kind of cute too so I doubt his life is that miserable.
As far as using an airgun to shoot game larger than a small pig, you would have to use archery techniques or you would never get close enough to insure a clean kill. There just isn't that much power available to waste any.
Just my .02 on the subject.
Randy
Do deer react more like being shot with a gun or bow from air rifles?
Even large caliber air rifles are about even with a 38 Special ( energy wise ). Shot placement, distance and shape of projectile are critical. Better add some luck, too.
Since selling my 45 caliber SamYang the state of Arizona has now legalized deer hunting with Air Rifles of 35 caliber or larger. I sure wish I hadn't of sold it now.
But, I've been dreaming again. I've had my eye out for a used AirForce Condor or Talon. From the research I've done on them they are fairly easy to modify and convert into a viable deer or coyote hunting gun. I have the technology, now I just need to save up the money to buy the gun and the Hand Pump. That's all I really need to do the conversion.
Life would be so much easier if I were rich; maybe not quite as fulfilling though.
HollowPoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow53
The energy is that of a 22 short.not enough room for error IMHO.
Interesting topic. Couple of years ago I read a book about Lewis and Clarks journey across the west and they mentioned using an air rifle.
I do know it was .46 caliber but have no idea of what velocity it was capable of. Article states it had the same velocity as the 45 acp.
Maybe we have not come that far in the last 300 years or so since the rifle was built:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pqFyKh-rUI
You had better have a lot of time or luck to get a Quackenbush. Tried for 2 years and gave up.
There are a couple of BB makers that produce rifles that reach up to 1000 fpe . I am not sure what the top energy of these rifles are . I have not talked to them recently . But I know in the past he has filled his orders in a timely fashion . Not like some that place you on a list and you wait for years . The thing to remember is when it comes to these makers other than DAQ it is a second business and when the primary business picks up the rifle making just does not get done . GL Marvin
http://www.extremebigboreairrifles.com/Home_Page.php
What! Someone took an elk with one! I want to hear that story.
How about this!
http://www.bigboreairguns.com/07bisonhunt.htm
Shot capacity, large diameter, shots per fill...apparently none of you live near an Indian Rez where most of the deer are taken with 22's of all type. And, yes that includes shorts and lr's. I guess that the Big Bang theory hasn't hit my area yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryball
I do live by a rez and have property adjacent to one I hunt on. Most of those guys hunt with larger calibers like the 308,30-30,SKS’s and quite a few 223’s with ball ammo. Sure some are shot with 22 lr but it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Just because I tackled one from behind and cut its throat with a plastic fork don’t mean that’s any other way is just overkill<G>
"ultimate" Not even close... plenty of other big bore airguns of decent power and ease of use available... with less to go wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Chambers
Not really- they show up all the time on the secondary market- just saw one the other day NIB even, they cost more than from Dennis but they are easily available- no luck involved- just bring cash!Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter2
I got mine on the second hand market- at a cheaper price than from Dennis even... bit I did luck out!
The quakenbush air guns pack a good amount of power but the ergonomics of their form just seems to be overly cumbersome to me. Of course this is a mute point since I'm not the one buying or carrying one.
I've heard and read alot of reports from those who are extremely happy with their ownership experience with these big long heavy air guns. More power to them. It's the owners satisfaction that's important; not my opinion or the opinions of those who've never even fired one.
I am of the same opinion of the Benjamin Rouge. At the rate that air guns are evolving, it won't be to long before the air guns we're debating about here will be relegated to the antiquities pile, just like the Giardoni air gun. Big power, but at what cost?
Just not my cup of tea, that's all.
HollowPoint
I asked the DNR people about hunting deer with an air gun. "It has to have the SAME muzzle energy as a center fire rifle, 1200 foot pounds!" For small game and varmints there is NO limit! When Isaid bows do NOT have 1200 fpe! They replied BOWS ain't GUNS!!!
In Arizona, our game and fish department did studies that indicate what muzzle energy is needed to humainly bring down various game animals at air gun hunting ranges. I still don't really understand their final decisions about "Pneumatic Weapons."
It's strange because they determined that it only takes a certain amount of muzzle energy to take down a coyote but it's illegal to hunt them with a break-barrel air gun of 22 caliber unless it's a PCP; even if the break-barrel air rifle generates just as much, if not more muzzle energy than some PCP's of the same caliber.
There are some .257 through 30 caliber Big Bore air guns that generate the muzzle velocity to humainly bring down a deer but, our Game and Fish Department has limited the taking of deer with a "Pneumatic Weapon" to .35 caliber or bigger.
I guess they're making policies erring on the side of caution. Otherwise we might have guys out in the field trying to bring down deer with their Daisy Red Ryder BB guns and claiming it to be OK because their Red Ryder is technically classified as a "Pneumatic Weapon."
HollowPoint
Air guns are not my game but I do come here and read you guys. Never know what you'll learn.
Just to mention Quackenbush. I have a good friend who bought one of his rifles. Main spring broke soon after he got it and that was the end of gun.
Denis Quackenbush doesn't stand behind his guns. What a waste if you ask me about my friends gun.
I know Mr. Quackenbush pretty well and find that real hard to believe. He is A man of very high morels and have never seen him turn down someone who needed help. Unless of course you bother him on Sunday, that is his day off.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaLar
On that note I'll ask my friend to give him another try. Ron (my friend) is a reasonable and friendly fellow.
They still seem underpowered to me. I've shot deer with a 357 mag and that was marginal.
I do know of someone who shot a 700lb Brown bear with a 22 mag rimfire. It was following him up a tree though.
This is slightly off subject from air rifles for deer hunting but still on the subject of "Under Powered" for deer hunting. I read a post on this very forum of a guy who used a 380 caliber to stop a bear from attacking him.
It seems that he and his girlfriend were out in the woods when they came across a charging bear. Just before turnning to run away, he wooped out his little 380 and shot his girlfriend in the knee-cap with it, allowing him to get away clean while the bear focused his attention on his ex-girlfriend.
Similar to using a 22 RF to achieve success, shot placement is everything.
HollowPoint
I owned a DAQ bandit and sold it! Not worth over $650 IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by tallpaul
I currently own an Extreme in .308. I ordered it at the end of Oct., finally got it in Jan.Quote:
Originally Posted by melloairman
there is no denying that more deer have been taken with a 22 rimfire than any other caliber, but, it is a question of legality. the states that allow airguns for deer usually have a minimum on caliber. also, they dont always present the perfect shot...i can take them with my .25 condor with ease if i need to, but i prefer something larger if available.
Airguns for deer? ...real men use a wrist rocket :lol:
I don't know about taking deer with an airgun (I watched that UTube video of the bison hunt and it appears the bison final died of lead poisoning); however, I'd love to have a dependable, accurate airgun that will take birds and furry pests out of fruit trees at up to approximately 100 yards (probably would need to be larger than .22 caliber).
MJ
25 Cal Benjamin Marauder will do the trick
With pellets or castings? If castings which mold?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke4320
Thanks,
MJ
I have bagged many deer with different single shot rifles and pistols with success. In my life time of hunting deer, I have never fired more than 3 shots back to back and that was only one outing.