I'm very tired of my setup with Lee micro-adjust powder bar....and Lee "Perfect" Powder Measure!
I want to fine tune my loads to .05 gr. with my turret press, if possible.
I'm very tired of my setup with Lee micro-adjust powder bar....and Lee "Perfect" Powder Measure!
I want to fine tune my loads to .05 gr. with my turret press, if possible.
Yes, several powder measures can be press mounted and throw charges within .01-,02 grains. Results will depend upon the powder being used and the total charge weight. I have good luck with Lyman, Dillon, Herters and Pacific. The question is, however, if you think you need that kind of accuracy, why are you trying to use a powder measure, especially if you are on the ragged edge for a max load. Anything that hot needs weighing; each and every single one.
Quick Measure
r1kk1
Seems unlikely.
0
So far I'm not pushing near the max.
But checking every load for 2 rounds, then loading 10 rounds and check again...the system I have will show variance then.
I'm wanting something I can trust to be much more consistent.
Which of those you mentions is the most reasonably priced?
If for any reason, I need charges that close, (be it for pushing the top end of the pressure, or for accurate loads) I trickle every load.
That being said, I expect a certain amount of accuracy out of a powder measure. My RCBS does the job, but I have an old Herters with a 3/8" measure tube, and it is amazingly consistent.
There isn't much to a powder measure. Usually, if it has a small diameter powder tube, then I figure it would be fairly accurate.
Another thing I would mention, is that you better have a scale that you can trust to read those measurements accurately. If it dont say "Ohaus" on the side of it, then I'm a little leery.
I am guessing you have that scale set for grams not grains.
.002 grams = .03 grains which is about the best you will find in a scale, However, many seem to only be 1/2 that accurate as they skip every other number, so expecting anything better than .05 grain accuracy in powder drop seems near impossible. I consistently get drops down to as little as .05 accuracy with the Lee Precision Pro Auto Disk and file modified holes using Double Disk Kit. With 9mm favorite load, 4.15gr of W231/HP38 drops at 4.15gr everytime.
The micro-adjust powder bar was worthless here as well. Stick with modding your own holes, and also the Lee Micro Disk if you can find one.
Also, many digital scales can drift and show different readings with a lot of fluctuation re-dropping the same charge. After testing 3 different models over several months, gave up on digital scales and the inconsistent drop issue went away. As an electronics professional and geek, that was a hard switch to make.
http://quick-measure.com/
There have been threads on the measure.
r1kk1
O.K., I think I see where we differ, you're saying 2 tenths of a gr. I'll buy that...., .0 is tenths, .00 is hundreths, I agree you should be able to find a measure that'll drop to within 1 to 2 tenths of a grain...I have 7 measures, 3 different brands, I think they'll all do that well...but some powders I keep a closer eye on than others...
Even the best powder measures are influenced by your technique of using it.
Even as to how rigid it is mounted or the speed at which you operate it at.
The Micro Disk is great for very small charges, but for normal charges, you will need to slightly enlarge one of the disk holes of the Double Disk kit to be exactly what you want the charge to be. You do not have to stick with what the holes are factory drilled to. I still prefer using the disks that I drilled and filed over the Micro Disk (not to be confused with useless micro-adjust powder bar).
Prior to the Lee Pro Auto Disk, I was using the Perfect Powder mounted on bench to drop charges through funnel into turret press, and while it did a great job with the larger capacity rounds, consistency with smaller charges was one reason for the switch to the Pro Auto Disk. Now the PPM is only used in separate process for large rifle and BP rounds.
Since you already have both the Lee PPM and Auto Disk (pro?), you might want to just pickup another set of disks to modify and see if that fits your needs cheaply.
Last thing is, different powders will give much better or much worse inconsistent drops. If ultra consistent drops are required, then looking at different powder choices would be required as well.
I'll throw my hat in the ring here. The RCBS Uniflow is relatively consistent. However it doesn't seem to like really small charges. The Lyman 55 is consistent when it wants to be. I've had days when it won't sit still and I am chasing it for the entire batch. Other days it just measures it's little heart out. The LEE PPM has not worked for me. Others have been able to make the LEE PPM work like a charm but I have not. There are alot of powder measures out there and I have only tried but a few. My most consistent powder measure I have is a Lyman Accumeasure. This leads me to believe that most fixed cavity powder measures can be accurate as long as the machining is tight. As for adjustable cavities I have heard good things about the redding and I may give it a try but like many others I have only so much funds. I would suggest a LEE pro auto disk or another fixed cavity style measure.
I don't see any point in charges to < .1 !!!
Even on small stuff of 5g.
Variances in primer ignition and powder burn rates will overpower charge weight up to 1% or more.
In other words for a 25g powder charge you won't see the difference in a .25g weight variance.
Why do you think you get a 'standard deviation' in muzzle velocities? It's not charge weight differences, it's ignition variances
Is there a Turret press mounted powder measure that's consistent to .02 gr?
No.
I think you might find a single kernal or flake of powder weighs more than the precision you are demanding. This alone will make your goal unattainable without splitting kernals or flakes of powder. It is also a goal that has no practical, or even discernable effect on velocity or accuracy of the finished ammunition.
Jerry Liles
If you want the most consistency you can get out of a press mounted powder measure, you need to use one with a case activated powder drop. You will get more consistent results using that method than any other. In addition to the case activated powder drop, you will need to deliberately select a ball type powder that meters better out of a powder measure.
Of the available economical measures, the RCBS Uniflow with a case activated powder measure works the best on a Lee Turret presses because the Uniflow is of low enough weight to balance well during the press operation and is as consistent as it can be if the case activated powder drop and appropriate cylinders are used. I have been very satisfied with my loads using these described components and a Lee Classic Turret press.
IF, however, you are not satisfied with the results you get from a Uniflow/case activated powder drop combination, then your best approach is to either use a funnel, trick your charges, weigh them individually and drop them with a funnel in your die or spend the money and get a Quick Measure setup.
Ain't gonna happen. If you can find one that does .1gr, be ecstatically happy.Quote:
No, I'm saying 2 hundreds of a grain, friend...that's what I'm wanting.
What scale are you using that will weigh to within 2 hundreths of a grain.....I want one (if I can afford it)...one that will consistantly measure to a tenth of a grain is very good and more than adequate for measuring powder for handloading...good luck in your search..
To get that close you will have to throw a light charge and trickle up to that weight.
When you have a powder that is matched for the cartridge you can get away with +/- .2 grains.
What you do is work in 1% increments and plot the velocity on a chart. Where you see almost no gain in velocity between charges is you sweet spot. I learned this a long time ago with a Remington 40X in 222 Remington. I still have the chart where I used 19.6 grains of IMR 4198 with a 55 grain bullet.
At one time I use to think that if I had the powder charge measured to the last .01 grain it would equate to accuracy. Not even close, add to that low extreme spreads over a chronograph do not take into consideration barrel vibrations. These are just means of getting there a little faster, the TARGET is the real truth teller.
What are you shooting that you feel needs that amount of precision?
You do realize that for Stick powders .01gr is a Partial stick?
Even the Flake powders are more than .01gr per flake.
No mechanical measure will throw a charge that accurately, they work by volume not weight.
Pure randomness of how the powder fits in the chamber prevents the accuracy you wish.
I like their design.
How about this Hornady?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/591344?cm_vc=S014
daddyseal said,daddyseal,Quote:
Mine reads consistently to .002 gr
Do you have your scale in an enclosure that shields it from air currents? Is your scale on a surface that is completely isolated from vibration? Is the room in which your scale operates, climate controlled? What class of calibration weights are you using? Your calibration weight would have to be at the very least, class 4.
Without all of these conditions it would be impossible to guarantee or maintain 2/1,000ths of a grain accuracy.
smokeywolf
I enjoy using a old Redding powder measure with 2400,4227,bullseye ......to a tenth or two.
Horace
Since you specifically limited this to a press mounted measure I will tell you that is, in itself, impossible. Every time you cycle your press your measure bounces or moves some. This creates variance in the packing of the powder each time, because 1) the vibration is not consistent, and 2) every time you release a load of powder the remaining powder flows into that space so you cannot create a 100% pack each time.
I no longer mount a measure to a press, but then I load every cartridge individually. What are you loading on a progressive that you think needs that level of accuracy?
If I put a powder baffle in it, won't that solve nearly all of the movement issue?
When I start reloading for my rifles, I'll bench load too.Quote:
I no longer mount a measure to a press, but then I load every cartridge individually. What are you loading on a progressive that you think needs that level of accuracy?
A while back one of the magazines ran a test to see which powder measure was most consistant including some top end ones, and lo and behold, the Lyman 55 won out. i'm not sure what the actual amounts were.
I don't think that any measure subjected to the vibration of a reloading press can perform as accurately as you have requested. Even a tenth is asking a lot for anything mounted on a press. I keep my powder measure and scale on a separate table, isolated from the shaking of the loading process. Its been my experience that even a Harrell or Neil Jones measure needs to be operated very consistently to perform to within a tenth, and that's with easily measured powders.
Obsess over something important.
Gear
This one, but got it for $78 someplace else.
http://www.digitalscalescenter.com/a...g%20x%200.001g
Easy mistake to make.
That scale is advertised as .001 grams (g).
.001g = .015gr (grains)
But a common ploy sellers "of digital scales" use is they round off to what looks best on paper to buyers, with more likely best accuracy on a cherry picked unit of .01gr, which converts to .0006g rounded up to .001g. Also note that accuracy is usually measured around the middle scale ranges, not at either extreme, so while at a midpoint of 10 grams (150 grains), it "might" have .015gr accuracy, at the extreme ends of the scales range it might drop to .5gr accuracy.
It is a Chinese scale that is sold at Amazon for $50.
A quick look at reviews there shows this is like most of the low end Chinese scales, and is not the best choice for reloaders. This comment is an example of typical with many digital scales: "takes at least about 14mg for the scale to register weight", and 14mg (milligrams) equals .2gr (not .02)., which is about normal for many digital scales.
or this:
"The scale is definitely accurate to +- 3mg or better as claimed in the manual, but like the Gemini 20 it has problems registering very light things. It's just completely off under 10mg, with accuracy increasing up from 10mg to roughly the 25mg mark." (10mg = .15gr)"
http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh...DateDescending
If you seek consistency as a priority, dump the digital scales.