Ar15 .458 socom, cast boolit load info for 500grn NOE spire point NLG PC

Howdy yau'll. Im looking for anyone who has some first hand experience with this boolit in the .458 socom AR platform. I just purchased the mold and plan to cast from COWW. Im hunting primarily subsonic info for this boolit. After watching Full Lead Tacos videos, ( Awesome BTW ) I plan to PC it and size to .459. He found 4198 worked pretty well at around 22 grn / 1000 fps. Anyone have any more info?

Secondary load: supersonic 325grn ftx.
A1680 or H110.

BCA heavy barrel and bolt no money to throw at a tromix right now. But i I fall in love, I just may in the future.
1-14" twist
Carbine length gas system
Adj gas block.
Starline Brass
WLP primers

I'm interested in any response that you get, because I was recently gifted a complete .458 SOCOM upper. I honestly think that the previous owner just got tired of trying to find mags that would feed reliably - that, and paying a minimum of $2 a round for ammo (he doesn't reload)! Assuming that I can persuade this beast to play nice, I see a lot of cast boolits in its future!

I hear that! I wanted a heavy for caliber upper and after a little research and coaxing from a buddy, decided on .458. Had I done a little more research, I would have seen the issues that have occured with different chambers etc etc. If I can get this upper to run half decent with the ftx and 500grn taco bullet, ill invest in a full tromix upper.

Im wondering if I ought to repost this in a more visable section of the forum.

We are talking about this bullet right?

Attachment 302240



This is my standard heavyweight shooting bullet, I shoot quite a few out of my RRA .458 SOCOM carbine upper.

I settled in 23.5 grs of Reloader 7 and that gives me right at 1,100 fps out of my upper. Shoots good, clean and the cases eject nicely.



I also run the NOE 600 gr. MOAB and it's 570 gr. HP version but they do not shoot as well as the 500 gr. SP.




Attachment 302242

Thats the one. Just bought the mold from NOE a week ago. Havent cast any yet. Still compiling components. Ive never powdercoated boolits either. But theres plenty of info out there on that. Ill have to pick up some RX7 and 4198 and load some up for some testing. Nice smooth powdercoat btw. Im about to grab some polyester (powder by the pound) mirror black or similar and try the shake and bake method. What did you settle on for LOA? And magnum pistol or WLP?

I appreciate your info on the 600grn MOAB. Looks like a close range beast though, hollowpoint is wicked looking.

Attachment 302283

If you start getting a 3 Point jam take a look at the mag on the top and notice how it has a relief cut to shorten the guide lips. This cured my feed troubles on a non Tromix 458 SOCOM upper. It lets the rim clear the mag earlier in the feed cycle.

Those are 405 grain 45-70 boolits.

I appreciate that input! I am grabbing a few different mags to try. I have a ton of GI 30rnds, but im going to try the lancer, cmmg and D and S mags to do troubleshooting with as a just in case, or for different projectiles.

Not to get total off subject. But Intel6 where did you get that Grey PC you used on your cast bullets?

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Originally Posted by Capt.Red.44

Thats the one. Just bought the mold from NOE a week ago. Havent cast any yet. Still compiling components. Ive never powdercoated boolits either. But theres plenty of info out there on that. Ill have to pick up some RX7 and 4198 and load some up for some testing. Nice smooth powdercoat btw. Im about to grab some polyester (powder by the pound) mirror black or similar and try the shake and bake method. What did you settle on for LOA? And magnum pistol or WLP?

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I use Eastwood powder and I stand them up for baking so the PC flows nice and smooth.

I use CCI Magnum Large Pistol for all my SOCOM loads but I have also used Winchester LP's which are both.

LOA can depend on your chamber and how thick your powder coating is. I use a Tromix case gauge but you can also just try it in your chamber. I am away from my load info so I don't have it readily available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capt.Red.44

I appreciate your info on the 600grn MOAB. Looks like a close range beast though, hollowpoint is wicked looking.

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Yes the HP is cool. I goes into the bullet more than half way (about 2/3 ) so it is serious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capt.Red.44

I appreciate that input! I am grabbing a few different mags to try. I have a ton of GI 30rnds, but im going to try the lancer, cmmg and D and S mags to do troubleshooting with as a just in case, or for different projectiles.

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The GI mags work but I didn't like how they scratched up the brass. I tried the Lancers and they worked good and didn't mess up the brass so that is all I use now. They have worked with all the bullets I shoot in the SOCOM (300 - 600 gr.) so I just stuck with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDRanch

Not to get total off subject. But Intel6 where did you get that Grey PC you used on your cast bullets?

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I answered you im PM's but figured I would put the answer in case others wanted to know.

It is Eastwood PC and the color is squirrel gray.https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-squirrel-gray.html

Thanks a lot for all the info. I may have to give that mold a shot after I try out the NOE 500grn. I very much appreciate the info on the mags. I have heard Lancer changed something recently with their mag bodies , causing them to Bulge when loaded to capacity and not fall free? How old are yours?

My limited 458 Socom BCA observation.

I put together a 458 a couple of years ago with BCA components. I wanted this to be a low-cost big bore cast Boolit plinker. I started out using Sierra 350 gr HP's as this was the only 458 bullet I could find to start working with. This bullet is designed like a typical JSP pistol bullet. When this bullet enters into the barrel extension it would jam up every time. The soft lead of the bullet nose would be gouged up badly and even the copper jacket would have slivers of copper shaved off.
These rounds were feed from a 30rd Lancer mag with a half moon filed out of the front edge of the mag. The research at the time showed this mag modification to be a reliable improvement for feeding issues. My rifle would not feed a round from the mag. when racked or fired. I tried loading the mag with 3rds ant 9rds just to see if spring pressure was an issue. No change.
I felt that with the round exiting the mag at such a steep angle the nose of the bullet was jamming into the extension lugs and not slipping past them. A pointy fmj bullet like 5.56 would have slid right past the extension lugs and chambered but a blunt bullet had no chance. I put the 458 a side to work on other projects.
This barrel is the only BCA barrel I have purchased so I am in no way degrading there quality but in this barrel the extension lugs have milling marks up through the tapers of the lugs and the lug edges are very sharp. I think a little time with a Dremel tool polishing up the lugs would improve the situation with my barrel and on day I will get back on it.

My story is to give you another perspective to look for. But after reading PMER's post this makes me rethink my problem as to the angle at which the rounds leave the mag. to be a contributing issue.

With enough of us working together maybe we can get the none Tomex 458's to function reliable enough to have a fun day at the range. One of my other project that took me away from the 458 at the time was a 7.63 x 39 AR upper. After working out its kinks it is now a Lee 155 gr cast boolit shooter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capt.Red.44

Thanks a lot for all the info. I may have to give that mold a shot after I try out the NOE 500grn. I very much appreciate the info on the mags. I have heard Lancer changed something recently with their mag bodies , causing them to Bulge when loaded to capacity and not fall free? How old are yours?

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I have been reading that thread also. All my mags I have had for years so they all work. I have a few 20's that I use for bench shooting with the SOCOM and a few 30's I can use if I want more rounds. If the new Lancers are not working well that is a shame. They were an easy recommendation for new SOCOM shooters.

Curious, I noticed on E-Bay that there are a few Vendors that offer modified magazine Followers.

The Tromix website switched the brand of magazine they're selling too. Apparently some change happened with the other mag.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kylongrifle32

My limited 458 Socom BCA observation.

I put together a 458 a couple of years ago with BCA components. I wanted this to be a low-cost big bore cast Boolit plinker. I started out using Sierra 350 gr HP's as this was the only 458 bullet I could find to start working with. This bullet is designed like a typical JSP pistol bullet. When this bullet enters into the barrel extension it would jam up every time. The soft lead of the bullet nose would be gouged up badly and even the copper jacket would have slivers of copper shaved off.
These rounds were feed from a 30rd Lancer mag with a half moon filed out of the front edge of the mag. The research at the time showed this mag modification to be a reliable improvement for feeding issues. My rifle would not feed a round from the mag. when racked or fired. I tried loading the mag with 3rds ant 9rds just to see if spring pressure was an issue. No change.
I felt that with the round exiting the mag at such a steep angle the nose of the bullet was jamming into the extension lugs and not slipping past them. A pointy fmj bullet like 5.56 would have slid right past the extension lugs and chambered but a blunt bullet had no chance. I put the 458 a side to work on other projects.
This barrel is the only BCA barrel I have purchased so I am in no way degrading there quality but in this barrel the extension lugs have milling marks up through the tapers of the lugs and the lug edges are very sharp. I think a little time with a Dremel tool polishing up the lugs would improve the situation with my barrel and on day I will get back on it.

My story is to give you another perspective to look for. But after reading PMER's post this makes me rethink my problem as to the angle at which the rounds leave the mag. to be a contributing issue.

With enough of us working together maybe we can get the none Tomex 458's to function reliable enough to have a fun day at the range. One of my other project that took me away from the 458 at the time was a 7.63 x 39 AR upper. After working out its kinks it is now a Lee 155 gr cast boolit shooter.

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It seemed to me that it was worth a try, it only takes a few minutes to modify an old magazine. Then I could dump a mag full of Hornaday 350 grain round nose.

I liked it from the point of not having to modify the bolt or locking lugs in the barrel extension and letting someone else shoot it too.

I've done quite a bit of back and forth with Taco regarding the 458 Socom and 338 Spectre over the last few years.

For the NOE HTC459-500-SP (PC and sized .4595") @ 2.18" with CCI 350s
Accurate 1680 - 23.0gr (10.5" barrel - 937 - 1003fps)
IMR 4198 - 22.0gr (10.5" barrel: 968 - 1009fps)
Accurate #9 - 15.5gr (10.5" barrel: 947 - 972 fps / 12.5" barrel - 977-999 fps / 16" barrel - 1045 fps)
I posted extreme velocity swings on purpose, things fluctuate between 40 in the winter and 110 in the summer in the Southeast. It can be surprising to see for the first time going off someone else's data so I like to include it.

I had a 10.5" Tromix for a few years, sold it and got a 12.5" made by Paladin and haven't tried the old loads in the new barrel. All of these cycled unsuppressed yet both of these were pistol length gas systems and my 16" is a bolt gun. Your mileage may vary with the 16" carbine gas system. Granted I was able to have my adjustable block closed beyond 75% restricted and they still cycled, BHO started getting hit or miss around that setting.

#9 has become my favorite for subs, it burns cleaner and is audibly quieter for me when suppressed. I started trying it when I had issues with the NOE 600gr bullet leaving lead on the case mouth with IMR 4198 and Acc 1680 and it also took care of that issue.. Still don't have a definitive answer for that..

FWIW, I shoot the NOE 380 grain, pc, over 33 grains of AA1680.

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Originally Posted by dogmower

FWIW, I shoot the NOE 380 grain, pc, over 33 grains of AA1680.

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This thread was about 500 gr. bullets, so I didn't mention the other loads I shoot in the SOCOM.

My standard shooting load that I shoot the most of is the NOE HTC459-354-FN. When cast and GC'd and PC coated it comes out at an even 360 grs. 30 grs. of AA1680 gives me right at 1,400 fps. and it makes a great load that is clean, functions well and doesn't wear out my brass.


I also like the bullet in my 45-70. Below you can see the bullet loaded in both. It also shoots great in the 45-70 so I go through a lot of these bullets.


Attachment 302701

I was parusing Tromix's site yesterday. They seem to only be selling the new Hexmags for use with .458 socom now. I snagged a couple and Ill try them out. I also just bought the second "taco" designed NOE HTC459-354-FN-BU5 mold as well as some othe things from Al at NOE! Awesome guy and a great help. I plan to buy some powder here from smoke. Ill keep yaull posted on how it all works out. Hoping that I may be able to find a decent combination thats reliable. Just for huntings sake , Im also going to try and find a " full length gas checked " FTX bullet load with accurate 1680 and IMR 4198.

May have get one of the NOE HTC459-354-FN-BU5 molds. Leaning towards the the PB, powder coat version.
Are you guys buying the brass or aluminum molds?

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Originally Posted by DDRanch

May have get one of the NOE HTC459-354-FN-BU5 molds. Leaning towards the the PB, powder coat version.
Are you guys buying the brass or aluminum molds?

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All my NOE moulds are Aluminum, but I have heard the brass ones are great also just never tried them.