I've bought some new brass (10mm auto) for the first time. I usually just buy once fired brass, but I got a smoking deal. Just curious what the consensus is on if you size the brass before loading or just go straight to flaring and seating?
Printable View
I've bought some new brass (10mm auto) for the first time. I usually just buy once fired brass, but I got a smoking deal. Just curious what the consensus is on if you size the brass before loading or just go straight to flaring and seating?
I size to make sure its to size and correct. Ive gotten bras that was new unprimed that was tight
Others opinions will vary, but I always size and trim new brass before loading. You may never need to trim again.
It depends on application and the brass. Bottleneck new case always get sized. Straight wall cases may or may not have enough neck tension without sizing. A while back I ordered 2K of new 45 Colt Winchester brand brass. On about half the bullets would drop about halfway into the case. I was loading them for SASS matches that require very low accuracy levels, so I had not planned on sizing them.
Always resize new brass. Irons out any dents and makes them all uniform. Plus it gives you a chance to inspect them for damage or missing flash holes. Quality control isn’t what it once was.
I've seen too much new brass that had out-of-round case mouths. It all get sized before loading.
I do. I'm not sure why, but both times I had to buy new brass, I sized it.
Back in my .50BMG days, I bought a lot of GI pull down.
I sized it too.
I have not had to size the new brass I have purchased, one cartridge I shoot, 6mm PPC, I did turn the necks and neck size. I have had to straighten some case mouths but I did not size them. I don't know how many you have or plan to load at one go but If I had 500 or 1000 pieces and am working up a new load, I would load a box (20 or 50) with starting loads without sizing and see how it goes. If I had a progressive press already set up to load a proven load, I would just dump them in the hopper and crank away.
Tim
Most of the time when working with new brass I size it. Anything that gets a roll crimp also gets trimmed.
I resize new brass too, just to ensure that there are no flaws.
I size new brass. As for trimming, I’ve never trimmed pistol brass in my life! Unless ya wanna count making 9x18 from 9x19 by trimming a mm off. Revolver, 38, 357 mag and 357 max, that’s another story. Same with bottle neck. Measure, trim if needed.
I always size new brass. It takes a lousy 15 min/100...so why not. That's 15 more minutes I get to relax in the shop. I've gotten new brass that has been dinged up/out of round, so for me, its just worth the time.
redhawk
Ill share I'm not scared. I have only ever had brand new brass once. About 8-10 years ago guys on the forum where getting into the big bore AR platforms. I jumped on the wagon. A Beowulf. Well it was fairly new and brass was none existent. So I ordered up 200 new from some place. It showed up and I didn't even think about it at the time. I grabbed a hand primer and popped 10 primers in. Dropped some powder and tossed in some 325g projectiles I load 50AE with. Grabbed the gun and a mag and hit the range. OMG I never considered the brass was not sized to spec. I called the barrel maker even sent the upper to be checked. Still not thinking about sizing. They said they polished the throat and chamber but it ran fine for them. They even sent me a box of ammo and a few extra mags for the so called issue I was having. Well pumped factory 10 rounds down the pipe and ran like a top. Came home sized the empty brass and loaded them up. Also grabbed the 4 remaining rounds that was reloaded with the new brass and hit the range again. What is going on once again the new brass loads would not run. Then a light bulb went off. OMG you fool size the new brass. Guess what, works fine now. So that is my story. A guy who has reloaded garbage pails full of ammo for about 35 years had a brain fart. Size all brass new to you end of sentence. Save the headache. I hope my stupidity helps others out.
Thanks all for the comments. Definitely unanimous on sizing, and it makes sense.
When I was new to reloading, I had experienced new cases that the bullet would drop right through the mouth into the case, both straight wall and bottle neck. Ever since I make it a practice to FL size all of my new brass, and check/trim length.
A little lube and/or vibratory tumbling is also recommended on new brass. It is very 'dry' as supplied due to the solvent rinses. This is true even with carbide dies.
45_Colt
Years back, I bought a bag of Name Brand pistol brass. Loaded it straight out of the bag. Every darn one of them, the bullet would twist in the case with ease. Never again.
I, too, have/love the 10mm Auto calibre, as a btw :). Germaine to your question, my experience many different brands of brass are -- albeit produced to SAAMI standards -- a tad different -- 'specially vis length. I'm OCD re case length, so ALL brass I acquire -- brand new or fired -- first gets primers removed if fired; then gets wet tumbled; and then goes through sizing die! After, each and every case gets a go-through in my L. E. Wilson case trimmer. I cannot count on my fingers the number of occasions where brand new brass -- after sizing -- is a different oal length than, say, others!
It does not take very much time at all to do this -- but it guarantees me all my brass is the same size and length for loading.
geo
I picked up some brand new Starline brass in 45 colt years ago. I started measuring it, and the length was all over the place. I decided to size it, and guess what, after sizing they all measured the same. All brass whether new or used gets sized first in my house. I have had the same thing happen with Starline 327 fed mag brass also.
I also size just to be sure..
What is this new brass thing that is being bandied about?:kidding:
I size new also. I don't hand prime so it has to go in the station, may as well size too.
for what I can, uniformity is the keyword. since the start_
sizing new it's a must, in my book_
All new brass gets a trip through the sizing die, 'cuz you never know what you have until it's been processed.
This is an interesting thread I stumbled onto while looking for info on sizing. Seems to be a lot of collective knowledge here. I think my comments, although long, do relate to resizing new brass.
I began to reload, 50+ years ago, before I got a wife, kids, and moved into a place with no good place to load. Shortly before I stopped reloading, I bought a used Remington XP-100 along with with dies and a two boxes of cartridges. Half of one box was fired. I shot the rounds that came with it and was not impressed with the performance. Bought 2 more boxes. I shot one box and part of the other. These new rounds were a little better, but I was still not impressed. I have no idea the history of the gun OR if the rounds that came with it were new or reloaded. Then life got in the way and I cleaned up guns and packed everything away. Have only used my 22 rifle and a 22-250 as needed for varmints around the place.
Now kids are grown, I have a workshop, I am retired and my son has expressed interest in shooting where there was none before. I have set up a work space and getting the gear back out to restart the hobby. Examining the fired 221 Fireball cases, from long ago, they do not look right to me. Some of the rounds that came with gun the primers are backed out, some pierced, others some seem to be flattened pretty good. From my reading, backed out or pierced primers seem to indicate too much head space, too much pressure OR not enough pressure to stretch the case back against the bolt.
In search of answers, I bought an L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Gauge for each cartridge I shoot. 221 Fireball, 22-250 and 8mm Mauser. The Wilson Gauges tell me that fired cases for the 221 are shorter than minimum with the primers backed out to near the maximum. The few unfired 221 rounds I have are also below minimum.
All 200 of the fired 22-250 cases I have are from my gun and are about 0.002 above maximum size. I have a few unfired that are correct.
I have only 16 Mauser cases in the original Remington “Kleanbore” Box when I inherited the gun. Those fired cases protrude about 0. 245 above Maximum on the gauge.
I purchased 100 new cases for the 221 and the 8mm. Those new cases fit the gauges perfectly.
For me, it is obvious the chamber on the Mauser is large. I will NOT be resizing those to fit fully into the gauge as that will greatly reduce case life.
I am thinking that the 221 rounds I got with the gun were reloads. I think they were sized a bit too small, resulting in the pushed out primers. Some not loaded hot enough to push the case back against the bolt face, some too hot, squishing the primers and hopefully the reason the gun is so inaccurate.
To wrap this up, if you are resizing anything, new unfired or old range brass, and not measuring it in some way, you are just guessing.
Some photos on the gauges and various brass measurements.
1) 3 fired cases in their gauges. The 221 with pushed out, pierced primer. The primer IS at the correct length if only the head of the case was back there with it!!
2) 2 new unfired cases
3) 221 unfired is about 0.002 too short
Attachment 325875 Attachment 325876 Attachment 325877
hemmjo-- You reinforce my challenges (actually, "extreme disappointment" may be a better expression) after I purchased the XP100 in .221 Fireball I had longed for, for a good many years! I tried Lapua brass (ALL I now use!) and premium factory bullets using my Redding Boss press. The "culprit" for my loading was from this, as well as most other of my presses I tried, being severe run-out. This alone caused me to order a Forster Co-Ax, and being they were at the time on back-order "forever" -- I bought a MEC Marksman. With the Marksman press -- much to my most pleasant surprise -- pretty much ANY run-out disappeared -- and :) my groups on target MORE than significantly shrunk!
I first size any/all brass, and then trim; I am a "L E Wilson user" -- having same gauges as you have, and, their case length trimmer. Properly sized brass of uniform, exact correct length is one of the major keys to success I've experienced. But, I will add that -- at least in my case -- using same Redding dies and all else the same -- eliminating run-out was necessary for optimal results.
geo
What I do is what I learned the hard way, to do, prepare every component, every time, for every reloading session, exactly the same.
When you run low on ammo and need more ammo, you are going to not try to defend yourself with that "Junk" ammo, right? Wait until it happens to you, and you will pray that crap you loaded goes bang. Should you live through it, You will, absolutely, guarantee it will never happen again. That is the hard way.
I size all my new brass,, both rifle and handgun alike. While doing this I have been surprised at the numbers of cases that were so irregular they had little to no chance to "fit & function" in any chamber. This little bit of extra work pays for itself many times over.
You have to wonder what the factories do, is new brass pulled from the factory at a different place in the process than new brass that the factory loads. Why is not factory new brass not the same as factory ready to be primed brass. If you buy primed brass, I assume that you don't resize it but then, with this crowd maybe many would.
Without seeing everyone's manufacturing process it's hard to make a blanket statement but on the one that I have seen the brass is produced in one area and yes it's the same brass for reloaders and factory loads. Once the brass is manufactured it is transferred to a separated loading area on high-speed inline loading machines that the ability to deal with issues like not enough neck tension. Their brass tends not to have the same level of shipping damage like the brass most reloader deal with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMXYDQDW1M
Interesting thought. That did get me thinking. I inherited this rifle from my grandpa near 50 years ago. He was in the merchant marines during WWII and brought it home with him. I wish I knew more of the history of it. He was an avid hunter, fisherman, sportsman etc. But as far as I know he was never a reloader.
I did some measurements to check your thought. I am pretty sure the chamber is just a bit too large. Attached is a drawing of some differences between the new, Hornady 8 x 57 brass, and one that came with the gun in a box of unfired Remington Kleanbore 8mm Mauser. I also measured some once fired brass from some surplus ammo got.
Both fired cases are near identical, within 0.001 and 0.002 of each other.
The surplus label
Attachment 325962
The drawing
Attachment 325963
Making progress but still have not loaded any for it yet.
That surplus ammunition is Yugoslav. I shot a bunch of it when it was $5/15 on stripper clips.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I size all new brass because it is not always the same depending on many variables. I have learned the hard way that a one time trip thru your sizing process is well worth the effort. Interior neck sizes vary quite a bit on some makers brass. It is just a silly little problem that we can avoid.
Are you convinced the fired brass was fired in that gun? When you checked the fired brass in the Wilson gage, I am guessing that the case did not go into the gage far enough for the shoulder to contact and it hung up on the oversized body. You are right probably not a 8mm -06. Fired 8 x 57 in an 8-06 would not look like that, it would have no or very little neck.
Tim
Yep, 100% positive. I first saw, and fired it when I was 13-14. That would have been 1962 or 63. Grandpa shot a couple and I shot 3 into a big maple tree on my aunt's farm woods. We lost some of the brass in the woods. When I got the gun, that box of Remington Kleanbore, missing a few cases, with 10-12 unfired rounds was in the case. I bought the box of Yugoslav and fired that myself.
Just now I measured the case and gage The head is sticking out 0.209, the neck is still 0.210 inside the gage.
I have not loaded any for this yet. I am still trying to learn the fine points of this art. I know that I did some things wrong years ago when I first started. Hopefully I am getting a bit smarter now.
I am wondering if I should not try to fully resize these cases. Only size the neck so the bullets don't fall out? Won't resizing this much every time. wear the brass out really quickly?
I'm thinking the problem may be in regards to 8x57J which uses .318 bullets and 8x57JS which uses .323 bullets. Your fired case measurements basically match what 8x57JS measurements would be, but your Hornady case that you have labeled 8x57JS more closely matches 8x57J measurements. Are you certain that the Hornady case is a JS? Do you have J or JS dies? Is your Wilson Gauge for J or JS? The fly in the ointment is that the Hornady case that you say is JS has a neck measurement that is significantly too small for JS, but quite close for J.
If your rifle's bore is JS, i.e .323, no harm in shooting J ammo--you just won't hit much. But very bad practice to shoot JS ammo if your bore is J, i.e. .318. You and the gun might never hit anything again!
Thanks for the input but as this point I am 100% positive I have an 8mm JS Mauser with a chamber just a bit oversize. Still collecting information in regard to load data for cast bullets. I am certainly learning a lot. Hope to begin loading soon.
Attachment 327335Attachment 327333Attachment 327334Attachment 327336
I believe that you are correct that you most likely have an 8x57JS, but not so sure it has a significantly oversize chamber. It is on the large end of size, but within max specs. Your fired case certainly sugests JS size, and almost cetainly, your dies are JS, as almost certainly your Wilson gauge is. Keep in mind, a J case would fit into a JS Wilson gauge with no problems, and would not differentiate the case from being J or JS. Also, I may be mistaken, but I believe that Wilson gauges are for sized cases, thus one wouldn't expect the unsized fired case to fit. I think the new Hornady brass is made to very minimum specs, and you haven't sized it yet. When you do, at least the neck dimension will then be more in line with JS specs. And once you size the fired case, it will be also, though it's not out of spec now, just at the upper end. In essence, I believe that maybeso you have built up a problem in your mind that doesn't exist. All that said, I would encourage you to slug your barrel so that you KNOW it is .323 and not .318. Then, start loading and shooting. I don't think you have any problem issues. To maximize your case life, set your die so that it only bumps the fired shoulder back .002. If you anneal about every 5th loading, you should expect a minimum of 10 loadings, 15+ not a bit unrealistic.