30-30 lead reloading ?

Howdy Folks,
Not sure if this the right place to post,but-- I'm toying with trying "long range" with my Marlin 336 in 30/30. I need to use cast lead bullets. I am looking for any reloading help that can be offered. The rifle is of the Micro-groove design and shoots plated 170 gr. the best. Recommendations on bullet weight and powder to use would be helpful as well as bullet diameter. My books show .308, but, but what I've found so far are .309. Also, a good source for bullets.

Much Obliged,
Eyesa

The RCBS 30 -180 - FN shoots great in my 336 with Re 7 or 3031. I size it to .311" and use Carnuba Red lube.

Please define 'long range' for us!

I'd look at ballistic coeficients for some profiles, find ones that are suited to your magazine, then see if they have that in a gas check mold.

I use a 180 gr cast and sized at 0.311 with Winchester 748 in my savage 340...good accurate load.....
Attachment 193033Attachment 193032

hope this helps...
atr

I think you will find that micro-groove Marlins prefer a relatively fat bullet. The .311" that some have mentioned work best in mine. I actually have at least one that will take a .313" bullet. I also think you will find that micro-groove barrels prefer a little harder alloy than ballard rifled barrels do. Long range could mean different things to different people. Usually a 30-30 is not really considered a long range cartridge. Another limiting factor is the 1-10 twist that Marlin uses for the 30-30 rifles. I won't say how fast you can go with cast in your rifle because I don't know but retaining any accuracy if pushing factory jacketed velocity levels will probably be the trick.
Good Luck,
Rick

I been testing some 150gr plated bullets in a 24 inch and 20 inch Marlin 336. I have found that if I keep the speed around 1,600 fps the load groups good at 50, 100, 150, and 200 meters. When I get this load done I am going to work on some 180gr cast lead gas check from wheel weights. Both rifles shoot 125gr hp and 170gr fp bullets running over 2,100 fps great at the above distances.

I've had good results using Lee 170gc and Lee 150 gc, sized to .310, in my '86 Marlin 336 with micro rifling. I run mine about 1600fps. Furthest I've shot them was 250 and they have a bit of an arch but would probably shoot out to 350 without too much trouble. Oh, I use WW/AC +2%tin with homemade lube.

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Originally Posted by Wayne Smith

Please define 'long range' for us!

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I believe we're talking in the 200-300 yard range for this type of gun.

I think we are restricted to 1600 FPS, it may be 1400 and no gas checks, lead bullets only. Where can I source .311 bullets? What I've seen on-line are mostly .309

Much Obliged for all the responses. It surely helps.

If you're limited to 1,400fps and under, here is some data for you using 170gr cast...

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

And here is just one of many suppliers that have cast larger than .309"

http://www.hunters-supply.com/cast-l...7an8ismame4cq6

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Originally Posted by Salmoneye

If you're limited to 1,400fps and under, here is some data for you using 170gr cast...

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

And here is just one of many suppliers that have cast larger than .309"

http://www.hunters-supply.com/cast-l...7an8ismame4cq6

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Much Obliged Salmon Eye---
I double checked our club rules and I can go to 1600 FPS and gas checks are allowed. Range runs out 466 yards, but I don't see my eyes shooting stock sights at that distance, I can barely see the targets:smile:, so I figure about 200+

powder like 2400 or Rx7, 175-185gr GC from WDWW alloy and a boolit like the RCBS SIL, sized 311 or greater. BLL works fine at that fps for lube. Long, heavy pointy boolits with high BC for competition (probably need to cast your own or buy premium boolits from someone). For hunting, FP.

My Marlins love the Lee C309-150-RF with 28 grains IMR 4895 sized to .310 with Randy Rat's Tac-X. Velocity is a bit under 2000 fps. See no reason why the 170 grain version wouldn't also work.

Two of the best places to get up to speed are the Lyman reloading manual and the Lyman cast bullet manual.
You appear to be looking to buy bullets. That may be a handicap since you will not be able to customize the bullets for your rifle.

Check with a guy in Montana. His business is on the web under the name Bull Shop. Tell him about your rifle and he can probably supply bullets ready to go.
He sometimes lists his bullets on Gun Broker.

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Originally Posted by Eyesa Horg

Howdy Folks,
Not sure if this the right place to post,but-- I'm toying with trying "long range" with my Marlin 336 in 30/30. I need to use cast lead bullets. I am looking for any reloading help that can be offered. The rifle is of the Micro-groove design and shoots plated 170 gr. the best. Recommendations on bullet weight and powder to use would be helpful as well as bullet diameter. My books show .308, but, but what I've found so far are .309. Also, a good source for bullets.

Much Obliged,
Eyesa

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You mean there's something better in the Marlin 336 than the Lyman #311041 sized .311 and cast of ACWW then loaded with 25 grains of IMR 3031? This load has been a hog & deer harvester for 30+ years here in SW Florida using several micro-groove marlin and H&R rifles. Accurate, feeds well, incredible performance, low recoil, shoots to the factory sights out to 75 yards. Rarely find a fired bullet but when we do it is classic "mushroom." No problem penetrating the grizzle-cape of large boar hogs or hitting large bones. As good or better than 170 grain factory "soft-points" at 1/4 the cost.

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Originally Posted by curator

You mean there's something better in the Marlin 336 than the Lyman #311041 sized .311 and cast of ACWW then loaded with 25 grains of IMR 3031? This load has been a hog & deer harvester for 30+ years here in SW Florida using several micro-groove marlin and H&R rifles. Accurate, feeds well, incredible performance, low recoil, shoots to the factory sights out to 75 yards. Rarely find a fired bullet but when we do it is classic "mushroom." No problem penetrating the grizzle-cape of large boar hogs or hitting large bones. As good or better than 170 grain factory "soft-points" at 1/4 the cost.

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There's a load I will try.....

Either the Lee, Lyman, or RCBS 170gr GC bullet will do fine up to 2000 fps. My preferred propellant is IMR 3031 and loads between 1600 and 2000 fps work just fine. Use Lyman #2 alloy and whatever bullet lube you prefer. I use NRA 50/50 with no problems. And yes, use a fatter bullet for the Marlin. Have fun!

Attachment 193484

I don't have a Marlin in 30-30, but do have a large collection of Winchester 94s... so my experience may not directly relate. But... I've won a fair number of "long range" events with a 26" octagon bbl'd Winchester 94... with the following load: WLR primers in Federal brass, 27.5 grains of RE-7 behind a GCFN boolit, 6 parts WW to 1 part Linotype, from a Saeco #316 mold, sized to .309" and lubed with Lyman Alox. It ain't a mouse-fart cowboy load... it's cooking along @ 2190fps, and shoots to the same POI as my Federal 150 grain "Power-Shok" factory stuff. The best grouping I've had it do off a bench is ¾" for 5 shots. It's done several 3-shot touching groups, but... apparently, I then get a touch "nervous"... and they'll open up a bit! :groner:

I've heard from several sources that Micro-Groove™ bbls like a tad fatter bullet than does Ballard rifling.

Deleted double post

You are obviously shooting "cowboy" LR. Not the same as what most of us consider long range. But, welcome to the club!

What you need are just above what we call "mouse fart" loads. These usually run about 1,000-1,400fps and use a shotgun-pistol powder such as RedDot or Unique. For your purposes, either #2400 or BlueDot will work without any need for fillers.

I suggest you get the Lee 150gr FNGC mold and try casting them yourself. Get the Lee bullet sizer in .311" and lube with the Lee liquid Alox that comes whither the sizer. No need for a gas check under 1,600fps. Most any scrap lead will work, but range scrap mixed with tire weights will be best for your needs. The Lee 170gr FNGC is my second choice. It's a bit hitchy feeding due to nose length. The 150 casts to just under 160gr, the 170 to almost 180. I do like the 170 in .30/06 or .303Brit, however.

You will absolutely need to trim the cases to same length, and flare the case necks.
Start at 12.0gr and work up to 14.5-16.0gr of either powder. This will yield approximately 1,200-1,600fps. At the upper end, they kill deer handily to 120yds. For higher velocity you'll need to go with gaschecks and slower powders.
Be REAL careful however.... you are plunging into an abyss. I started out casting with the sams basic equipment in 1976. I've now loaded/shot several million rounds of self cast bullets, won a few national titles in NRA PPC competition, to include several national records. It's addictive!!!

There are several commercial casters that cast what you need but I can't recommend any as most of what I've seen are what I reject and throw back in the pot. Either way, for the Marlin, .311" is what I use. I get at or under 2" 5-shot groups at 100yds from my Marlin/Glenfield M30 at 2,200fps with an assortment of powders. My favorite is RELOADER15, with H4895 close, but IMR 3031 was what I had my first high velocity success with about 40yrs ago.
For commercial suppliers try these three;
Oregon, Meister, and Hunters Supply. MidwayUSA sells the Hunters Supply; some get low ratings. Buy them direct, and get at least 250 as shipping is included. The .311" 165gr flatnose is what you want.
BUT, you can buy the Lee equipment for what 250-500 cost, and cast 2,000-3,000 before needing more lube!

If you can't find proper sized boolits, PC could help.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168244-30-30-Maximum-Distance-With-Accuracy&p=1884028&viewfull=1#post1884028

28gr of 3031 works well also

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Originally Posted by curator

You mean there's something better in the Marlin 336 than the Lyman #311041 sized .311 and cast of ACWW then loaded with 25 grains of IMR 3031? This load has been a hog & deer harvester for 30+ years here in SW Florida using several micro-groove marlin and H&R rifles. Accurate, feeds well, incredible performance, low recoil, shoots to the factory sights out to 75 yards. Rarely find a fired bullet but when we do it is classic "mushroom." No problem penetrating the grizzle-cape of large boar hogs or hitting large bones. As good or better than 170 grain factory "soft-points" at 1/4 the cost.

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Funny, I killed my first "small bore" cast deer with that exact load, except I added 2 ounces of 95/5 solder to a ten pound pot of wheel weights. Also, rifle was a Savage 340, but it worked great. The mold is an old single cavity Ideal.

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Originally Posted by GooseGestapo

You are obviously shooting "cowboy" LR. Not the same as what most of us consider long range. But, welcome to the club!

What you need are just above what we call "mouse fart" loads. These usually run about 1,000-1,400fps and use a shotgun-pistol powder such as RedDot or Unique. For your purposes, either #2400 or BlueDot will work without any need for fillers.

I suggest you get the Lee 150gr FNGC mold and try casting them yourself. Get the Lee bullet sizer in .311" and lube with the Lee liquid Alox that comes whither the sizer. No need for a gas check under 1,600fps. Most any scrap lead will work, but range scrap mixed with tire weights will be best for your needs. The Lee 170gr FNGC is my second choice. It's a bit hitchy feeding due to nose length. The 150 casts to just under 160gr, the 170 to almost 180. I do like the 170 in .30/06 or .303Brit, however.

You will absolutely need to trim the cases to same length, and flare the case necks.
Start at 12.0gr and work up to 14.5-16.0gr of either powder. This will yield approximately 1,200-1,600fps. At the upper end, they kill deer handily to 120yds. For higher velocity you'll need to go with gaschecks and slower powders.
Be REAL careful however.... you are plunging into an abyss. I started out casting with the sams basic equipment in 1976. I've now loaded/shot several million rounds of self cast bullets, won a few national titles in NRA PPC competition, to include several national records. It's addictive!!!

There are several commercial casters that cast what you need but I can't recommend any as most of what I've seen are what I reject and throw back in the pot. Either way, for the Marlin, .311" is what I use. I get at or under 2" 5-shot groups at 100yds from my Marlin/Glenfield M30 at 2,200fps with an assortment of powders. My favorite is RELOADER15, with H4895 close, but IMR 3031 was what I had my first high velocity success with about 40yrs ago.
For commercial suppliers try these three;
Oregon, Meister, and Hunters Supply. MidwayUSA sells the Hunters Supply; some get low ratings. Buy them direct, and get at least 250 as shipping is included. The .311" 165gr flatnose is what you want.
BUT, you can buy the Lee equipment for what 250-500 cost, and cast 2,000-3,000 before needing more lube!

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That's some great info Goose, You're correct this is more on the Cowboy LR side and we're limited to 1600 FPS. I was able to get some 3031 and the Hunter bullets. Loaded 10 yesterday @ 22.5 grains per the Lyman book and hope to try 'em today! My first foray into reloading rifle cartridges. Now the experimenting starts! Dang these shooting sports a great! I used the Lee factory crimp die and they look pretty good, hope they shoot as good as they look! Will probably have to try the different weights as well. The gun always liked factory 170's better that 150's, but these will be the first cast bullets I've shot and they ran about 168 grs. give or take about 1/2 gr. The next batch I'll separate by weight to see if it makes a difference as well. Only ordered 100 to start, I see casting in my future. It never ends does it?!

I get 1300-1400 fps with a 175 gr PB & unique (10 gr) in my 336, decent accuracy but to get 1600 I use 2400 (16 gr is less $ than 21gr). You want a small FN, not the huge one on the 041. 1/2 gr. won't make any difference. I do have an unopened can of 3031, just not tried it. I assume you're shooting at steel targets.

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Originally Posted by Eyesa Horg

Much Obliged Salmon Eye---
I double checked our club rules and I can go to 1600 FPS and gas checks are allowed. Range runs out 466 yards, but I don't see my eyes shooting stock sights at that distance, I can barely see the targets:smile:, so I figure about 200+

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What sights do you have on your rifle? Accuracy at 1600 fps with the right load can be good to at least 600 yards in my experience.
Are you permitted to single load from the magazine?
w30wcf


Eyesa,
you can do

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Originally Posted by Tar Heel

Either the Lee, Lyman, or RCBS 170gr GC bullet will do fine up to 2000 fps. My preferred propellant is IMR 3031 and loads between 1600 and 2000 fps work just fine. Use Lyman #2 alloy and whatever bullet lube you prefer. I use NRA 50/50 with no problems. And yes, use a fatter bullet for the Marlin. Have fun!

Attachment 193484

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Very much agreed on this. It's working very well in my .308 using Lyman #2 at 2000fps. Also using IMR 3031 and tumbled lubing with LLA. You should get something very similar in your .30-30.

"That's some great info Goose, You're correct this is more on the Cowboy LR side and we're limited to 1600 FPS. I was able to get some 3031 and the Hunter bullets. Loaded 10 yesterday @ 22.5 grains per the Lyman book and hope to try 'em today! "

WHOA! those bullets do not appear to be gas checked. If they are not, then your 3031 load will likely be inaccurate.
w30wcf

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Originally Posted by w30wcf

What sights do you have on your rifle? Accuracy at 1600 fps with the right load can be good to at least 600 yards in my experience.
Are you permitted to single load from the magazine?
w30wcf


Eyesa,
you can do

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Due to the incessant rain here, I haven't been able to try the loads I made up with 3031 & Hunter bullets. I will be using the stock iron sights to begin with at least.Going to use the currently mounted scope for group testing however. I was also under the impression that gas checks wouldn't be needed under 1600FPS. We'll see how it goes. Thanks everyone for your input, it's most helpful when starting a new game, Hope I like it!

Hey, i havent posted in quite a while ,had 3 surgerys and in fections all last year .all my shooting projects were put on hold.i had my 91 marlin 30-30 cerracast and it came out .3115.this reading was within about 30 minutes after casting. i had slugged it earlier and i read .312
so i want to cast and reload for this marlin. I also want to powdercoat the cast booits.
Should my mold be a .308 or .311? Powder coating will add two thou . I want to size after powder coating.
My thought is to cast for .311 , powder coat and size to .312. This may be all wet what would you all suggest

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My thought is to cast for .311 , powder coat and size to .312.

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Probably correct but I'd go larger. Soft alloy drops small. Measured at bore/groove or just throat? Custom mould or something for a 303? Problem with using PC for dia. is you then can't use other lube.

Eyesa, how old are you and how good are your eyes? A receiver sight might be a welcome addition and with the Marlin it is simply a screw on - already drilled and threaded.

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Originally Posted by Wayne Smith

Eyesa, how old are you and how good are your eyes? A receiver sight might be a welcome addition and with the Marlin it is simply a screw on - already drilled and threaded.

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I'm 63 and figger a peep sight might be nice in the future. Went to work at the club this weekend and folks inferred that they are shooting at around 1200+ FPS, so I think I'll be OK without gas checks. Range will be around 266 yards to begin with the lever gun. Still raining, so haven't tried my first loads which should be just shy of 1600 FPS.
Thanks much for all the info Pards.

I'm 64 and in trifocals. I'm going to receiver sights or scopes on all my rifles. I don't expect that my eyes will get any better!

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Originally Posted by Wayne Smith

Eyesa, how old are you and how good are your eyes? A receiver sight might be a welcome addition and with the Marlin it is simply a screw on - already drilled and threaded.

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Receiver sights are not legal in cowboy action long range... but are in NRA Lever Action silhouette.