I went to their website. Says: "So Long, Farewell..."
I called them several months earlier about the Master Pot. Owner said there were issue acquiring heating elements. Also problem with getting workers, since most now are CNC operators.
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I went to their website. Says: "So Long, Farewell..."
I called them several months earlier about the Master Pot. Owner said there were issue acquiring heating elements. Also problem with getting workers, since most now are CNC operators.
Wow!!! Hope they have just been hacked and it gets sorted out.
If they are done, it will make their equipment skyrocket in value. Every commercial caster uses it and there is no other supplier.
My Master Caster may have doubled in value? LOL
Makes no sense for them to shut down. There is value in that business and someone would have purchased it.
I've given them a couple calls in the last month, one to ask about Star sizer availability, they said they were waiting on castings for many months, but had plans to tap the castings and finish up the lube/sizers when the castings came in. Then they were hard to reach for a week or so, then they picked up the phone on a random Friday afternoon (Jan. 19 Mountain time). The person who picked up said everyone was pretty much gone for the week and to call back on Monday. Last contact was about two weeks ago, they didn't mention closing down the business then.
According to at least one dude over on the Facebook "Magma bullet casting equipment owners" group, the website has merely been hacked.
While that is a more comforting thought than that Magma has gone under,...I see no one offering any sort of evidence this is the case. And in fact, as long as the drought at Magma has gone on, it would not be surprising, really.
If indeed Magma has shut down, I would hope it would be considered important and valuable enough to be bought up and resurrected by someone. I mean, sooooo many businesses use and rely on Magma. Missouri Bullet Company, SNS Casting, Hoosier Bullets, Blue Bullets, Brazos Bullets, Steel Valley Casting, Bayou Bullets, DG Bullets, and dozens and dozens of others.
And heck, living here in Arizona as I do,...my first thought is that this would be an excellent opportunity for Dillon Precision. I mean, Magma already uses blue as their signature company color, just like Dillon. The companies are both in the Phoenix metro area. Dillon likely has the cash on hand to do the deal, as well as techno-savvy machinist dudes who can take over and even upgrade the production.
You hear that Dillon? (Wink, wink.)
One of the business rating sites has them listed as permanently closed.
I recall seeing on here a few months back someone posted a link to a European manufactured knock-off or sorta kind-of clone of sorts of the Master Caster,...but already automated. I can't recall the name now. Began with an S if I'm not mistaken. I recall it was painted black.
Anyway,...that might be an option now.
Oh,...here it is,...I found it. https://schuptercasting.com/
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Vj0yyssu7rs
I just ordered a couple of sizer dies from them for my star earlier this week, they arrived today.
I talked to them a week ago, the owner answered, which was rare. Hopefully they're still there, but it doesn't sound good.
I hope this is not true! When I went to their website I got the same "so long" message. I can't believe that a company like them would close with so brief of a message.
Just spoke to the owner. He cannot find people to work and is having problems getting parts. The owner shut down the site.
He will help with parts he has in stock. I wanted to order a spare heating element for my Master Caster and he cannot get them.
Sad day for the casting community.
I also called and ordered a part for my sizer today and heard the same things from him. When I ordered a feeder for the Star sizer from him abaout a year ago, he mentioned then that he couldn't find qualified people to work. Sounds like the days of finding a knowledgable machinist are not far off.
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Sometimes....not finding qualified people is related to the pay being offered.
I am saddened by this news. Just in case the owner of Magma glances in here, thank you for keeping our beloved Star/Magma Sizers up and running, dies available and adding heaters and air assist too. Good luck to you:drinks:
Sadly, true. I've been applying for some work locally, and sometimes "it ain't worth it" when an employer only wants to pay c.2005 wages despite 2024 costs of living :groner:
Having only spoken with (what I'm going to assume is the owner) twice now inquiring about status on getting those heating elements in(same answer both times about 4mos apart between calls), I was looking forward to plunking down some coin on a brand new Master Caster with a spare heating element and some other "spares" as a just-in-case sorta thing. Well poo...
If I needed an element for my master pot I would begin by looking online for a band heater. I did this with one of my RCBS pots when it failed and it has been working fine for years.
The Schupter looks interesting but is intended for black powder bullets right now. Max pot temp in 750 so just a little hotter than a lot of molds like to be run and apparently uses proprietary molds. Will require a dedicated 20 amp circuit as well. Didn't see any info on pricing for the machine or molds, bet it won't be cheap.
I talked with Eric on the phone yesterday (2/5/24). He said he put the "so long, farewell" message on there himself. He told me it all started with Covid. He can't find good machinists, and too many of his parts are made out of country. He's closing "for now".
Thinking logistically here, would any of the commercial casting companies, or Magma's partners, be in a position to take over such an operation? With the wealth of knowledge now out there on the internet, setting up more modern control panels, etc isn't too hard for someone with the staff. I guess the other thing is: "are there enough customers". As a small business owner/operator myself(who has also 5yrs of metal fabrication/welding experience in my resume), I'm wondering if marketing was simply the necessary tool needed to ensure healthier cash flow? While I personally detest "selling", posting to social media(a platform many of us youngsters use regularly/daily) can help inform/alert people to what you do, and can offer.
There are A LOT of people using social media, who are in the shooting sports. As someone alerted to earlier, finding suitably qualified people is one thing, but paying them a wage that will keep them coming to work on their face is another equally important part...
Definitely a pickle ****uation...
-Dan
I am with Plate Plinker on this. Lack of orders does not appear to be the problem.
Sourcing parts could have caused issues but there is nothing really special in making these machines. It may have been too much effort to redesign the melters to accept heaters from another source but that seems far fetched.
Molds could have been outsourced to one of the custom mold makers or even dropped as an offering if labor was tight. That would have Magma doing their core business and a business no one else is doing.
It doesn't make sense to me to throw in the towel unless he got tired of it, or had family or health issues to deal with. He seemed like a really nice guy when I talked to him so I wish him the best.
Hopefully other companies will look at taking on the business. I believe it has value and he could cash out instead of walking away and letting it die.
Just saddened by it all. Reminds me of when Star died.
Actually, I just conversed with the guy at Schupter two days ago via his Facebook account on the topic of molds. I suggested that with the demise of Magma, it would be in his interest to adapt his machine to take Magma molds. I told him there are plenty of us dudes out here who already have the molds and will not appreciate having to buy completely new ones. He agreed, and asked if I could provide him with the dimensions of Magma mold blocks so he could devise an adapter to be made available.
Atfsux, any idea of price?
So,...an update from elsewhere on the internet. I also am a member of the Facebook group "Magma bullet casting equipment owners" and this is from one of the members on there;...
"It's a sad day.
I just got off the phone from a motorcycle shop located 1 door down from Magma Engineering.
The person I spoke to knows the owner and relayed the whole story to me. He even walked outside to say the owner's truck in the Magma parking lot. He suggested I stop by to chat with him personally, but I'm up in Vancouver, WA.
The owner of Magma is retiring and preparing to go fishing. They are in the process of closing the operation and are planning an auction to sell off all assets.
There you have it. Short and sweet. We are on our own."
Since I live across the Phoenix metro area from Magma, I'm guessing I need to go over there and find out about this supposed auction and get ready to bid. There's no way I could afford the shop, but I might be able to score some lots of existing spare parts inventory.
For molds the claim is this is who make them https://www.nwesti.com/?fbclid=IwAR3...k_D4utKejQiclw
Is that just the casting portion of the business or does that include the steel sales also?
I do not know,...yet. I have an appointment to drop off my UTV at the dealer today for some warranty work. But if I have time, I'll drive over to Magma and see if I can talk to someone face to face. If not today, then Friday morning for sure. I'll share what I find out, if anything.
This stuff happens all the time to long time businesses. When there is none else in position to take over like a partner or child. The owner has only the option of selling the whole business or liquidating. I’ve seen it here with very successful restaurants and a huge gun shop and grocery and furniture stores. All of them were successful and very busy. But the owners were old and their kids were not interested in running the business foe various reasons. So the closings are just out of necessity when they got older. They want to retire someday and maybe just go shooting and fishing too.
So I made the effort to drive completely across the greater Phoenix metro area this afternoon to go visit Magma and see what I could see. The auction will be roughly (no exact date yet) in about 2 weeks, perhaps more. The auction will be primarily to sell off the industrial machinery and tooling. I was hoping to see if there were any lots of parts laying about that I might buy up, but was informed there isn't much. Specifically, I was looking for replacement heating elements for Master Casters and Bullet Masters, since that's what goes out most commonly and several people had mentioned they wanted. But the owner, Eric Clausen, informed me he hasn't been able to get any for any of the machines for quite some time.
Apparently Eric is spending most of his time answering the phone. (And ONLY Eric, despite seeing 4 other people there today, apparently all busy getting ready for the big shutdown.) The word has gotten out and EVERYONE is calling. It seems that the successful durability of Magma machines is in part their undoing. Because they last so long and not that many are sold as in years before,...economy of scale prevents the parts being manufactured/machined via CNC processes. The automation of aerospace machining over the last 30 years has produced great efficiency for mass production here. And the cheap foreign labor in China, India, Mexico and elsewhere has seen the master prototype machinist (old school manual machining) become an obsolete vocation here except in niche jobs. None of the vocational schools here have taught manual machining as a skill (merely an introduction to programing CNC) for quite some time. If you want something prototyped today and made as a one-off proof of concept, or a small batch of experimental items, you sketch it out in CAD and send the file to an overseas sweatshop who cranks it out and ships it. So all of today's young bucks know how to CAD and/or program CNC. But making metal chips by hand on a lathe or mill? No dice. The few old timers who have that skill are able to command a premium wage now that they are scarce, not to mention years or decades of experience, which has it's own value and cost. Eric doesn't need labor of THAT level. The level of skill you used to find in a manual machinist just out of school is all he needs,...and all he has ever really paid for. Mix that with how the imbalance in wages to cost of living (across all sectors) since the pandemic began,...and there just ain't no one willing to work for peanuts to carve jems.
Totally separate from that problem, the entire globalization economy has been flipped on it's head during that same period. If you happen to watch any of the videos of geopolitical strategist Peter Zeihan on YouTube, you know that China's economy, population and manufacturing capacity has been imploding and will soon collapse spectacularly. Thus, anyone with half a brain cell who has/had been sourcing stuff from China has been moving everything to Mexico, which is now cheaper and has better skilled labor. This has become a WAVE of industrial investment in Mexico, motivating even many still previously operating in the U.S. who were contemplating outsourcing to now pull the trigger, since borrowing capital is going up and will never be cheaper again. Thus, Wattco, who previously supplied the heating elements in all of Magma's machines, has moved there to cash in on the general manufacturing shift replacement of everything from China to Mexico. As a result, Wattco now has lots of new orders and business that they can service, which has left them relatively unmotivated apparently to continue stocking the old products Magma was looking for. That is but one example of Magma's supply chain woes, but there are others, Eric informs. I asked Eric if anyone had offered to buy Magma's intellectual property or patents. He said no. Unless someone does so, it seems that there might be an opportunity in a couple years for someone to do much like American Casting Equipment did with Ballisticast, and just copy their design, add a twist on it here and there, then call it their own and bring it to market. According to Eric, the auction will be handled by "ARIZONA AUCTIONS". However, in searching for an entity with that name, the closest I came up with was "ARIZONA AUCTIONEERS", https://arizonaauctioneers.com which seems to fit, since on their website they claim to specialize in "industrial auctions", with pictures of machining equipment and so on. Eric explained that the auction is primarily to sell off the manufacturing gear.
I asked if he had any completed and ready to sell products in stock, and the answer was no EXCEPT for a single Bullet Master, used but refurbished to like new, priced at $10,000. That will apparently be the very last intact and complete Magma product to ever leave their dock.
And now for some observations that would likely only be noticed by a local here on the scene. I believe part of the reason Eric is willing to give up and close his doors is because the physical location has shot up in value since they opened there. The place has nearly doubled in value just since 2020. Magma bought the property back in the mid to late 90s for about 1/5th the current value, which is just shy of 1 million. The reason is that Queen Creek, which used to be agriculture and cattle operations, has been transforming during the last 30 years of the great explosive growth of the greater Phoenix metro area. As Queen Creek has developed and gentrified, it has become rather upscale middle-class. Magma used to be surrounded by cotton fields and stinky cattle pens. But now, right across the street is upscale shopping developments, prime office space and behind Magma is rather nice residential homes and condos. Magma occupies a prime retail location, probably worth in actuality far more than the $960,000 the county assessor lists it at. So I suspect that during the last 4 years, Eric Clausen has likely received more than a couple of offers or proposals to sell the land to a developer. Between that value and whatever he can liquidate the machinery and tooling for, Eric is likely to have a nice chunk of change on which to retire and spend his days fishing. I can't blame him at all, really.
I spoke to Eric at Magma who has agreed to do some service work on one of my sizers and is putting together a large capacity bullet lube tube sizer. He did not mention any plans to close down the operation.