Semi-automated boolit sizer and high capacity magazine feed

This thread is about my version of a semi-automated push through boolit sizing machine and magazine system for use with dry coatings like HiTEK and powder coating. This build thread will be a little bit different than most, in that I’ve already figured out how to make it work and how to make the components and assemblies. I will periodically add posts to this thread and explain what’s what and why it was done that way. I also intend to share the design and show you how to make one of these for yourself. If making one yourself isn’t the right choice for you but you still want one, let me know. Depending on the interest level, I may become a vendor sponsor so I can run a group buy/do more than casual sales.

To start, here are a few pictures of the overall machine and a video showing it in action.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...142e7ac471.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...c58726ee58.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d4ef6161d3.jpg

https://youtu.be/q3yhdEV0Kdg

Here were the design objectives:
1.*******A very functional, durable, strong design for pistol boolits (not long rifle boolits)

2.*******Ergonomic boolit feeding into the feeding device/magazine

3.*******Human powered

4.*******Safe operation

These were the design constraints I used:
1.*******Parts that I could make using my existing fabrication equipment (basic metal working and wood working equipment).

2.*******Minimal and easy fabrication setups

3.*******Minimal fabrication time

4.*******Easy to assemble

5.*******Low BOM cost

6.*******Sizer fixture assembly must fit inside a medium USPS flat rate box

7.*******Magazines and magazine holder must fit inside a large USPS flat rate box

Looks like something I'd give a shot as I have a nice wood shop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yh...ature=youtu.be

Looks like it works. Also looks like you likely have the tools to make a collator as well.

I would be interested in making one also. It looks like a simple machine - Just my kind!! :smile:

Could you put a spring on the magazine to automatically pull the next row of bullets into alignment?

Looks good.

Why not just use a Star and lube them at the same time?

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Originally Posted by MT Chambers

Why not just use a Star and lube them at the same time?

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because some of us not longer use antiquated and neadathal methods of lubing cast :)..

I'd be interested in a setup for a Star lubesizer.

If anyone is interested in the drawings for this, please send me a PM with an email address where I can send the files.

It doesn't appear I can post the files (not images) to the Cast Boolits website...

Nice work indeed, very efficient and it seems smooth operating.

The fixture and magazine guide can be made from 5+ply 23/32” thick stain or paint grade veneer plywood (plywood with a smooth void free surface). I strongly advise against using building grade plywood, particle board, or MDF.

This system uses a Lee C-press that has been modified with a ¼”-20 thread tapped hole perpendicular to the front of the press and positioned 0.75” from the end of the ram.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...4706ea99b4.jpg

The magazines will work better if they are made from something denser and harder than 5-ply plywood. Ideally, the magazines should be made of 0.70 - 1” thick plastic (Nylon, Delrin, UHMW, etc) or even aluminum. The magazine material needs to be hard enough that boolits with distinct nose or shoulder corners (i.e. SWC profiles) won’t dig into the magazine material. Similarly, the magazine material needs to be dense enough that the V-groove cutting process doesn’t expose any voids for the boolits to snag on when the magazine in stood up vertically (vertical column of boolits).

I recommend making the magazines from 0.70” (18mm) or thicker material to limit the magnitude of their flex or stress relief deflection (observed after cutting the V-grooves). This flex/deflection is most apparent at the middle V-groove. Depending on the deflection direction, the V-grooves will appear too deep or too shallow to the boolits. Both apparent size variations will negatively impact magazine function.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...fbeed0105c.jpg

I made my magazines from 18mm thick Baltic Birch plywood because it’s relatively low cost, generally free of ply voids, and was something I could process with my existing wood working equipment. My magazines work well for RN and RNFP boolits, but they occasionally hang-up when using short aspect ratio (length/diameter) boolits with distinct corners, like NOE’s 155gr 0.454” SWC. The hang-ups are easily resolved with a little jiggling. In my experience, deflection/flex hasn’t been an issue for 9mm magazines, but my 45 caliber magazine needed a pair of stiffener ribs added to each side of each magazine.

The magazine’s boolit V-groove dimensions work best when sized to match the boolit diameter being used. This is especially true with boolits that have aspect ratios (length/diameter) < 1.2 and even more important with short round nose boolits because they don’t stack straight. If the aspect ratio is too low and the boolit tip rounded, the boolits will try to turn sideways when the magazine to oriented vertically. If that happens, the boolits will jam/cam in the V-groove tracks. My drawings include magazine sides for 23, 31, 36, 40-42, 44-46 caliber boolits. I’ve also included a table to shows the magazine sizes and capacities.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...878a0f63db.jpg

Prior to setting up to cut the V-grooves, I recommend making a set of spacer shims that match the center-to-center distance of each V-groove. These spacers will simplify the fence location adjustments between V-groove cuts. Make enough shims to match the number of grooves required by the magazine minus one.

Cutting the V-grooves is best done with an inclined datto blade set on a table saw. You’ll need to set the cutting depth before setting the location. The hard way to set the cutting depth involves using a height gage to measure the top arc of the highest cutter tooth relative to your saw table. The easy way to set the cutting depth is to iteratively cut test grooves in a piece of scrap, place an appropriate sized boolit in the track, zero your calipers on the full board thickness, then measure how high the boolit sits above the board ("B" dimension in following table).

Attachment 163691
Attachment 163692

While you could cut these grooves with a 45 degree bit in a router, it’s a total PITA and the chances of screwing up the cut are significantly higher. The grooves are relatively deep, so multiple cutting passes at increasing depths are required to avoid loosing control of the board and having the cutting path take an unplanned track (even when using a feather board and fence). Also consider, there are a lot of V-groove tracks (27 in my 9mm magazine) which means a lot of different depth setups. Plus, as more grooves are cut in the board, the board flexes more when holding/pushing it down against the router table surface. That results in variable depth grooves, which negatively impacts the boolit aspect ratio inside the magazine (boolit length/apparent magazine diameter). Yeah, you can do it, but I don’t recommend it. Use this as an excuse to buy a datto set for your table saw.

The magazines incorporate a thin aluminum escapement bar that interacts with a stop pin in the magazine holder to allow each column of boolits to ‘escape’ the magazine and fill the transfer tube. I sized this bar to be thinner (~0.063” thick) than the thickness of my regular table saw blade (0.125” thick). I used a saw blade that cut the groove out flush as opposed to a (ATB) blade that leaves an inverted V-shape. I chose not to use a router because I didn’t have a straight bit this small and I find the table saw easier & faster for this type of slot. If you choose to use a straight router bit, but you increase the groove width from 0.125”, make the escapement bar about 1/16” thinner than the groove width and height.

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Originally Posted by footpetaljones

Could you put a spring on the magazine to automatically pull the next row of bullets into alignment?

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I don't think that would work because you want all the boolits to escape each v-groove before the magazine indexes forward to the next v-groove.

Well done! goes to prove there is always more than one way to get the job done!.

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Originally Posted by Gremlin460

Well done! goes to prove there is always more than one way to get the job done!.

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Thank you Gremlin! I've enjoyed watching your AS/2 and Gatlin magazines progress. Those projects were the inspiration for my sizer and magazine system.

Here are pictures of the drawings for the Lee C-press fixture base.

As I said in a previous post, if you'd like these drawings in pdf or dwg format (they'd be easier to print and read) send me a PM with an email address I can send the files.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a11c7dc962.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...52c80dd3f6.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...6a33fdaf40.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e727cad196.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...0c2fc34868.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...5acb7b0c9f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...2f9fc5c503.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...7e30be5790.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...c09e919194.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...71c88f5365.jpg

Here are pictures of the drawings for the magazine holder.

As I said in a previous post, if you'd like these drawings in pdf or dwg format (they'd be easier to print and read) send me a PM with an email address I can send the files.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e43e523be7.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...d6f7104de3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...ed708a01e0.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3194375599.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b406deb721.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...be37145d64.jpg

Here are pictures of the drawings for the magazines.

As I said in a previous post, if you'd like these drawings in pdf or dwg format (they'd be easier to print and read) send me a PM with an email address I can send the files.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...30fe7ea7e3.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...cccd51edd9.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1a1a4af546.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...373598c2b0.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...f65896263e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1edf26e7e5.jpg

1845greyhounds...If you were to use hardwood strips to form the magazine slots, glued and air nailed in place, would that form the magazine just as well without all the tablesaw work. It would rotate their guide points by 90 degrees and do the same function. I know that doing router work and tablesaw work like this requires you to operate 'Murphy free' and that's no easy task. On the other side, to make quality exact size strips of any dimention on the tablesaw is a breeze as long as you have a quality blade and a wood liken to maple (what I used on my drawers and inserts in the kitchen ) I did all dovetail joints with a quality jig and was really impressed with the integrity of that wood.
You have done a fine job here…congratulations…wish you were a neighbor, I so enjoy quality shop time with a fellow craftsman as you have demonstrated here. I to have followed Gremlin460…he is a kick in the pants!
Because of the way that magazine feeds over a hole it could be swung to the right on a radius while keeping the drop hole centered and the front side further to your right making a wider space in the work area around the press.
I know where you spent many a night in bed while your mind was still in the shop…"Hey get back in here so I can get to sleep!"

I subscribed to your YT channel…and want to follow anything you have going...

Thank You for all the work you put into this and the willingness and effort to share…you gave me a whole new concept on this thing of automating the sizing process…the best I have come up with is a spring on the push post to make it faster..Lee bullet sizer modifications…now you have me rethinking it again!

OS OK

Thanks for the kind words OS OK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OS OK

If you were to use hardwood strips to form the magazine slots, glued and air nailed in place, would that form the magazine just as well without all the tablesaw work. It would rotate their guide points by 90 degrees and do the same function. I know that doing router work and tablesaw work like this requires you to operate 'Murphy free' and that's no easy task.

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You could do that, but you'd have to change the width of the magazine guide's opening to match each magazine caliber, or make some shims to buildup the sides of all the mags to the thickness of the largest caliber mag.

My V-groove magazines are laid out to maximize their boolit capacity. To do this, the channel diameter was also setup to be the center-to-center dimension between each groove (see the C-to-C dimension on each magazine side plate drawing). The following CAD images show the 36 caliber magazine setup with V-grooves and rectangular grooves.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...8f71a674d6.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...13d70241cf.jpg

As you can see, for the rectangular groove mag to equal the V-groove mag capacity, the strips must be very short and narrow. I'm not sure you could even nail something that thin.

Personally, I don't think cutting inclined dattos is all that hard or any more dangerous than regular table saw work. I cut the grooves at their full depth in 1 pass using my fence as a lateral datum, and tile floats to drive the work down against the table and laterally against the fence. I haven't observed any significant lateral reaction force in the wood as it starts and passes over the exposed datto saw blade. The same is not true when I tried to make the V-grooves with a router. Because router bits have fewer cutting edges, the active cutting edge applies torque into the work which can cause it to move laterally in any direction. For me, that resulted in a V-groove that wandered away from where I intended it to be (see shaded area in the next picture).

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...6c4550df2f.jpg

I initially did this design work to (1) satisfy my personal needs and (2) potentially commercialize at a hobby level. With commercialization in mind, I constrained each assembly's size to fit in a USPS flat rate box, and really focused on using the most repeatable and simplistic manufacturing methods available to me. I also focused on making essentially 1 design that could accommodate multiple calibers with minimal changes (preferably just the magazine). So for me, using an inclined datto on my table saw to cut the V-grooves made the most sense. It's "easy" to setup, repeatable and fast. A key aspect of using V-grooves is that the boolits are always centered between the 2 magazine side plates. This allowed me to have the same total thickness for all of my magazines, regardless of caliber. This meant I only needed one magazine guide for a complete kit (ie. I didn't need multiple mag guides to match different thickness mags).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OS OK

Because of the way that magazine feeds over a hole it could be swung to the right on a radius while keeping the drop hole centered and the front side further to your right making a wider space in the work area around the press.

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Will you share a picture of a sketch of what you are suggesting? I'm not sure I'm following...

Attachment 163962
Sorry for the CAD work…I learned to draft in the 60's and never had opportunity to learn CAD…big mistake!
I see what you mean on the mag. spacing. I have a set of shaper profiles for the tablesaw one of them is a point like the grooves you are using If I think of it I'll post a picture later today when I finnish mowing, I'm on break at the moment…still have 3 acres to go.
Love your CAD work…I'm extremely jealous pard!

OS OK

Now after posting I see that I didn't draw the 'down hole' from mag. in the correct place…sorry was in a hurry, but you get what I was saying anyway? I hope?

Nice sketch! CAD's nice for seeing scale, but a sketch will do in most cases (like this one).

I understand what you're saying and that was one of the biggest challenges of this project. Given my self-imposed size constraints and a general desire to keep the swing plate's cost as low as possible (i.e. make it smaller), I didn't have very many options where to place the magazine. As it is, I can run the press right handed without my hand ever touching the magazine or mag guide. It's close, but my knuckles stay clear.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...f34c4e483a.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...8ad932671f.jpg

Increasing the clearance is actually quite involved. The following images attempt to explain.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...044dbe46ce.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...de1d79da19.jpg

Now that you've got me thinking about this :-) I may try to incorporate something to raise the magazines vertically higher, orienting the magazine motion parallel to the front of the press, and guide the boolits to the swing plate with a flexible drop tube. Maybe a piece of clear tubing or a long spring.

It's funny how an idea comes together in our minds…you work on design, assemble it…watch it work, etc…then fabrication and assembly of the prototype…bing-bang-twist-tweak…walaaah!
Then you have a brand new working whatchamacallit…all the time the mind is already reworking for the next modification or new build altogether!

That is very cool

Everyone finds their own way to do the same job :)

It looks like a lot of good thinking went in to this. The video really helped too.

I like pictures when something new is presented; video is even better

great effort on this!

your design , video and write up are excellent. You must be an Engineer , a Teacher or maybe both? The only improvement I could offer is to perhaps spray lube your boolits to allow for easier sizing.

Very old post but i was looking for some ideas to speed up my sizing proces.
I like your magazine approche very much.
However i would not use your rocking/tumblin table to transport the boolits from the magazine to the die.
I would use a slide bar to get a boolit from underneat the magazine that will guid it to the die.
In this setup you will not have to do the effort to move the magazine forward.

I would also make the magazine at that level so a boolit wont have that "drop".
I am also trying to figure out how to implement a air cyclinder on the lube.
incl after sizing the removal of the boolit.

I think a combination of bt snipers setup and the slide bar will do the trick.

Thanks
If anybody has some ideas i would like to know.

this was no attempt btw to hijack this post.

Well I must have developed a stop and a heavy brow ridge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by parkerhale1200

Very old post but i was looking for some ideas to speed up my sizing proces.
I like your magazine approche very much.
However i would not use your rocking/tumblin table to transport the boolits from the magazine to the die.
I would use a slide bar to get a boolit from underneat the magazine that will guid it to the die.
In this setup you will not have to do the effort to move the magazine forward.

I would also make the magazine at that level so a boolit wont have that "drop".
I am also trying to figure out how to implement a air cyclinder on the lube.
incl after sizing the removal of the boolit.

I think a combination of bt snipers setup and the slide bar will do the trick.

Thanks
If anybody has some ideas i would like to know.

this was no attempt btw to hijack this post.

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I made this, it all bolts to an unmodified lee breechlock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg