7.5 Swiss w/ Lee C312-155-2R

I ran into an unexpected trade for a bunch of Graf 7.5 Swiss brass. I have some WC860 and Win Magnum primers but the only cast boolits I have on hand are Lee C312-155-2Rs. I realize they are kinda light and I would do better with something closer to 200 g but I saw in the reviews for this mold on Midway that some have used them in 7.5 Swiss and I remember reading a post somewhere else that this particular bullet shape worked well with the Swiss throat. What would be a good starting load with this assuming I size to .308, oven harden and gas check? I also have a little IMR 4064 and WC846 but not a lot or should I just wait and oder a different mold?

If you've got the mold, the powder, and mag. primers, why not try them? However, before you do, understand that sizing to .309" may give you better results than .308". Also, using WW alloy + 1% Sn, you won't need to heat-treat your CB's if you confine your loads to those that -> 1,750 - 1,850fps. As for WC 860, with the nominally 155gr. CB you mentioned, try 45-46grs. + a mag. primer, but NO filler.

The WC860 did not work well in my k31 even with the 200 lee. Left alot of unburned powder. Try something else with the lighter boolit. I have tried 4198 26.5 grains with the 165 lyman SW and got 1.7" groups at 100 yds. Working on a load with 2400 but no luck yet.

14-16 grains of 2400 with that bullet wins matches for me.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Both of my K31's like that bullet. My mold drops them at .3125 on the bands but .298 on the nose just above the first band. Sized at .309 with LLA lube.

Shoots well with all these loads:

8-9 Red Dot
10-12 Unique
14-16 2400
16-18 SR4759

My latest experiment is with an old Lyman/Ideal SC 311329 that casts at .312 on the bands and .299 on the nose. It shoots quite well in my M39 sized at .311 and LLA lube and it is showing promise in the K31.

Charlie

Like to find out how your K31 did with that Lee... :Fire:

That Little Lee 155 shot exceptionately well for me and has shot to date my best group with a milsurp rifle ,10 rds in 1.375" @100 yd. and that was without a GC believe it or not! But the down side of it is you must seat it a bit deeper in the case as its not a bore rider and the nose tapers from .308 at the base to .305 about .250 up from the base so it touches the rifling quick in the no throat k31 Most size to .309 but I had best luck with .311 so it pays to experiment.

Tim

Man, a .312 seems awful large for the K31, if mine's any axample. I just got it, and cast the chamber and slugged the bore last night. This ought to be a sweetie of a CB rifle, the leade has a nice taper to it.

But the throat is small and short. I get a tight .308 groove diameter, and the throat is not a micron bigger. Bore seems to be .299 on the nose.

My first try will be Lyman 311332, but I'm afraid even that may be hard to chamber, unless it'll cast the nose small.

So let us know how you do - I'll be watching with bated breath.

mine likes 310 on the base and 301 on the nose.
h-322 from a 308 load with a filler seems to work best at about 1900 it matches the sights pretty well.
the rcbs silhouette boolit is a good one for the k-31's.

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to do anything on this, been getting ready for deer season which opened on the 15th.......but I'm going to try and mess with this over the next two Sundays.......

I don't understand how any of you are getting that boolit to chamber in a K-31. My K-31 has .296" bore diameter across the lands, and .308" grooves. The .308" diameter starts right ahead of the case mouth, with a taper to the full land height over about 1/8". The Lee CTL-312-160-2R mould I have puts out boolits with a .308" diameter all along the straight section behind the short tapered ogive. I'd have to seat those boolits almost fully into the case to get them to chamber.

So far have only been able to get RCBS 165 Sil.,& lyman 311672 to shoot,Have not been able to get any 200 grs to shoot. Has someone had any luck with a 200 grn bullet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swiss 96/11

Has someone had any luck with a 200 grn bullet?

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Yes, mine likes the Lee 200 grain real well.

I haven't tried this in my 96/11 yet, but both my K31s appreciate a load of H4895 (29 gr) under the 193 grain Lyman 308334 bullet, with gas check. I lube these with alox. So far, and I've just begun to experiment, this combo has given me 10 shot groups at 50 yds measuring 3-1/2 in. I have often put 3-4 shots into less than 1 inch, then blew the group with a flier.

I'm next going to try these rifles with scopes mounted, to offset my ancient eyes.

hello
my k31 is in 30-284 here due the legislation i load a lyman 311466
sized to 310 works fine 1,5 inch at 100 m with original iron sight
i must seat more deep in the case the bolt close with a tap i try
aol 70.26
have a nice day

Tried some 312-160-2Rs in my K-31 yesterday. Boolits were cast from Lyman #2 and water-dropped before sizing to .309. I'd only loaded 60 rounds - 20 rounds each with three different powders: IMR4198, H4895, and AA2015. At 50M, the 4198 loads were more of a "pattern" than a group and those with loaded with 4895 nothing to write home about (1 1/2"+ CTC-issue sights). The AA2015 rounds were a different story...a much better one!

First 5 shots went into .978 @ 50M and I managed to put the next 5 into a little over 3" @ 100M. Set up the chrono and fired the last 10 at the 50M line. 10-shot chrono string went into 1.20" and averaged 2070 fps with an SD of 7! Load was 28.0 gr. AA2015 w/dacron filler, Fed LR primers, loaded into cases formed from .284 Win.

Ricochet is absolutely correct about this boolit, though, it's got to be seated fairly deep - like with the base of the boolit almost even with the bottom of the case shoulder - to chamber completely.

In my K-31 it'd have to be chambered much more deeply than that, with the base of the short pointy nose almost flush with the case mouth, and the body of the boolit hanging way down in the middle of the case. The long cylindrical bore rider is .308". From my mould, anyway. It won't chamber in my Romanian PSL 7.62x54R, either, though it's fine in my Mosins. This may be an extreme case of Lee mould variability. I've also seen that with the Lee C309-200-R, mine having rather fat .302 x .304" bore riders that chamber only with hard pounding on the handle of my K-31. Others have reported bore rider diameters around .298". That would be an ideal K-31 boolit.

Wish I had time to jump into the ring with my K31 right now. I haven't even shot it yet.. :roll:

I know what you mean. I haven't shot my PSL that I've had for a month, or the Swiss G.11 and 1896/11 rifles I just got. Went out to the range day before yesterday, got there, saw the crowd who'd spread out their targets completely across all the 100 yard boards, got back in and drove back home. Didn't want to try to squeeze in with them. I can't wait for cold, nasty weather, when I can have the range to myself.

Wish I'd thought to bring a pistol or two, I could've driven up the hill and popped off a few on the "auxiliary range."

There was some sort of huge national bullseye pistol match in progress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ricochet

In my K-31 it'd have to be chambered much more deeply than that, with the base of the short pointy nose almost flush with the case mouth, and the body of the boolit hanging way down in the middle of the case.

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Dunno! I just miked a couple of samples from my last casting run of 312-160-2Rs (unsized) and, like your mould, the nose dia. is right at .308 just behind the ogive. Could it be that the barrel of my K-31 (1937 vintage with original SIG barrel), and those some others, have maybe a touch more throat erosion than yours?

Bill

Possibly. I have to seat normal .308" bullets so that the tapered ogive begins almost right at the case mouth. I think it could be a replacement barrel, as the action has been reblued. (You can tell by bluing on the bottom of the tang.) The machining marks are still present in the throat.

[QUOTE=have maybe a touch more throat erosion than yours?

Bill[/QUOTE]

On my '46' K31 I can seat bullets .125 farther out than on my '53' K31. So i guess the '46' was shot more and has more throat erosion. Both rifles slug out at .297 X .307.

Charlie

Well proud as punch I was today. I had 20 312155 Lee bullets sized to .311 and off I went. Never shot the K 31 before so today was going to be a great day. WRONG! Now I know why I used to have my boss telll me to pay attention to details! Needless to say all my cartridges were to long. I even made up a dummy round to test but the real dummy was doing the testing and I wasn't closing the bolt all the way forward. Well the bullets are now seated properly and I now have 20 rds that will chamber.

OAL is 2.60". 16 gr 2400. Tomorrow we shall see if I can match some of the above efforts at 50 yards.

Take Care

Bob

Primersp - when the first batch of 1911 Swiss rifles came into the US back around 1966 I bought a short rifle, a long rifle, and a Cadet single-shot rifle. None cost me more than $35, since there was no ammo available. But we found that the .284 Win case would size easily to fit. It was sort of a small joke - hey, let's make a .30 - .284 wildcat cartridge! Oops, already been done - its called the .30 Swiss.
When the K31 rifles came in they were rare, going for about $250 in 1988. I bought one, then bought another in 2004 for $150. All of them are fine shooters with cast bullets.
Only problem I had with any of them is that the Cadet rifle wants the case trimmed about a mllimeter, all the others will accept the .30-.284 case as it comes out of the RCBS sizing die.
So your wildcat is legal in France, but not the military cartridge, I take it?

I use the LEE 309200GC with WC860 & a mag primer. Chambers fine & burns remarkably clean. I fill the case & no fillers. Boolits are sized to .309. My K31 seems to like them just fine.

Hello everyone, sorry for the late reply and my english (i'm french)
K31 owner and newb to the reloading , i'm experiencing my first reloaded cartridge , bought some LEE C312-255-2R already cast
took a stick and measure the maximum COL with this bullet

WAS 67mm/2.6378 inch

*** , is it very short , with an safety OAL of 66mm the cartridge is excessively short

https://i.ibb.co/yFpD3zT/PXL-20221105-180302198.jpg

the gas check is very deep inside the cartridge , is it normal for you ? what is you OAL with this bullet please ?

many thanks !

Is this a zombie thread?
I ran into short throat issues when loading for a K31 years ago. Seat bullet as far out as you can- and still chambers. It all depends on where the ogive on the bullet ends up.
The gas check down below the neck is a non issue in my experience.

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Allright ! many thanks , i will continue this way and fire the first cartridge with a string :d

When I first shot my K31 I loaded up flat point boolits meant for the .30-30 only to find they wouldn't feed. I checked one for fit in the chamber but I didn't try loading it from the mag. I had to single load them but the accuracy was very good.

Tony

Dang nabbit, now I have drag out my K31 and put some loads together. Every time I go on here I start another quest..

If you can get them in France, the Hornady 150gr spire point works well in the K31.
Try as I might, none of my loads matched the G11 surplus ammo in accuracy, though.
By the way, Welcome to the forum!

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I use 180 gr Lee .309 round nose on top of 25 grains on 5744/ LovexD060. Works fine at short ranges and fits in with the ranges ~1500 ft-lb energy limit.

In France you might be able to get the 174 grain 30 cal PPU FMJ bullets, which are meant to be really good.