IMR 700x in rifle

I've been trying out IMR700x in my SMLE and 2A.
303- Lyman 314299 GC, un-sized, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 7" low.
10.0 gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 5" low.
308- Lee 185g sized to 309, GC, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 6" low.
10.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 4" low.
I'm going to try a 311 bullet in the 308.
Seems like I could use more powder. I read somewhere the max is 14.0gr.
Recoil was mild. Very clean burning. No primer pressure signs.
I'm wondering if anyone else has used this powder????
I did a search and didn't find much.
For me, it seems to work better than Unique, Red dot and Blue dot.

Truthfully, I'd be very greatly surprised if there was any difference at all in accuracy or anything else between Red Dot and 700X. I have tried these two head to head, as well as similar powders and they all do pretty much the same thing.

I find success with lighter than standard bullets for the caliber - like, say 113 grains in the .30's - and lighter than maximum charges of 13-14 grains. Try going down in bullet weight and trying the 8-10 grain region for mild plinking loads and velocities from 1300-1600 fps. If you could get the Lee Soup Can to fit your likely oversized barrel, the range mentioned would likely produce the best accuracy of which your rifle was capable. At least with that bullet weight.

At these charge levels you may find that standard sized bullets could use a bit more velocity, and accuracy may be sub par as you have found out. I'd go to 2400 in that case as it can drive the bullet to more useful speeds for longer ranges and better accuracy.

Thanks for the suggestions.
I've tried Unique, 10gr to 13gr; 2400, 14gr to 17gr; Red dot, 12gr to 14gr; IMR4198, 20gr to 22gr; and Blue dot, 12gr to 16gr.
At 50yds, all were about the same. At 100yds, they started to open up and became inconsistant. With 700x it seemed much more consistant.
To me it feels like 700x gives a softer bang than Unique or Red dot. Kind of like Blue dot. From the burn chart, 700x is suppose to be a faster powder. Can it be fast and soft????
I have the Lee 165 sks bullet mould. I'll try it in the 308 to see if a lighter bullet might be better. Don't have a light bullet mould for the 303. Any suggestions???? Maybe I'll try to beagel it to get it bigger.
I'm looking for a load/bullet that would have the same point of aim at 50yds and 100yds, if possible, and group 1" to 2" at 100yds. Asking to much????
I wish I had a cronograph.

From a SMLE you're asking for a lot if you expect that kind of accuracy (1-2 inches @100), considering that most of them won't come close to that with any load, jacketed or cast.

You have one of the moulds for the fat .30's, hopefully? Two to three inches is not bad at all for a SMLE using the issue sights at 100 yards. Most of us have learned to be content with that. 2400 has my vote for an accuracy edge over the shotgun powders at the somewhat higher velocities that you desire.

You're not gonna get a slower cast load to hit in the same spot as a full power load at 100 yards. That's okay. Can't have it all. If your 700X proves better over several range sessions then it may be for you, but I'd still be surprised if there was any real difference between the various shotgun powders in the loadings you mention. In the .308 or .303 14 grains of any of these powders is a great plenty and accuracy may deteriorate due to a little too much of a swift kick in the rear for the lead bullet.

From your trajectory, and assuming you're zeroed exactly at 50 yards, you're in the 1100 to 1500 fps range.

Thanks for the info.
I'll keep on playing with it.

Not trying to hijack here, but have any of you guys had problems using pistol powders without fillers? I've only ever used Unique without fillers in my cast rifle loads. I have 700X, 800X, AA#2, and AA#5? I reload mostly fat 30's, 7.65x53, 7.62x54R, 303 Brit. etc. I would like to avail of my other powders as well, as the plinking chews up a lot of rifle powder.

Any of the faster to med. speed pistol or shotgun powders I have used have been without any filler or powder wad. I have had best luck with Unique ,W231 and Bullseye 10, 7.5 and 6 grs respectively for "plinker" 100 yd loads in the 54R,7.5 Swiss, 303 and 30-06.

Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RU shooter

Any of the faster to med. speed pistol or shotgun powders I have used have been without any filler or powder wad. I have had best luck with Unique ,W231 and Bullseye 10, 7.5 and 6 grs respectively for "plinker" 100 yd loads in the 54R,7.5 Swiss, 303 and 30-06.

Tim

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So AA#5 being a little faster than Unique and AA#2 being a little slower then Bullseye should be ok without fillers? I guess 800X maybe a little too slow?

abunaitoo

Are you using a GC on these bullets?

Also, 700X is very fast burning which is ok. I suggest you use less powder instead of more. I use a lot of Bullseye with such loads as I've found it to be the best. However, 700X does well also. I'd suggest you start at 5.5 gr and work back up to 9 gr in 1/2 gr increments in both cartridges.

Larry Gibson

I've not had to much luck without gas checks.
Seems to be inconsistent and some leading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abunaitoo

I've been trying out IMR700x in my SMLE and 2A.
303- Lyman 314299 GC, un-sized, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 7" low.
10.0 gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 5" low.
308- Lee 185g sized to 309, GC, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 6" low.
10.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 4" low.
I'm going to try a 311 bullet in the 308.
Seems like I could use more powder. I read somewhere the max is 14.0gr.
Recoil was mild. Very clean burning. No primer pressure signs.
I'm wondering if anyone else has used this powder????
I did a search and didn't find much.
For me, it seems to work better than Unique, Red dot and Blue dot.

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i am here to learn with you i have alot of 700x and i just started loading 158gr sns coated for my 30-30 so a site like this is very helpful .have a great day and shoot alot.

I was informed pressure curves are also part of the equation beyond burn rate, which could be the answer to your question about fast and soft. *not an informed answer, but an extrapolated guess*

700x is a mouse fart powder in my view. 6-10 grs will give ~.22 LR velocities and be good plinking with light bullets. The 314299,sized and GC'd with 2400, 4198, H-322 and maybe even 3031 will make you happier at a lot higher velocities.

For an idea of how pistol powders do in rifles:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I use the .30-30AI data for my .308 and it tracks pretty close.

Do not use filler with these really light loads. I have found that accuracy changes a LOT with change in powder weight. For example, using Blue Dot and 180gn bullets in the .308, if I loaded 8.0gn the group sizes would be around 1 1/2" at 100yd (1150-1200fps). If I went to 9.0 and 10.0gn they went up to 3" and 4" (this may be due to transonic issues).

If you want higher velocities then you go to the slower pistol powders (or faster rifle powders), like 2400, 4198, etc.

I like 700X and use a lot of it in all kinds of things.Almost as versatile as Unique.

I have used plastic gas checks cut to fit friction tite in the neck under a shallowly seated bullet. Paco Kelley uses these.

'Back in the old days' (70's) we started using poly wads instead of gas checks in straight cases. Got the idea from bench rest cast bullet shooters. The 'common' wad back then was cork or similar material.

It worked as intended and was an easy way to get more velocity with a plain base bullet.

Notes are is So.Cal. so this is from memory. 11-12 gr 700x under a fairly large cast boolit got 1/2-3/4" group at some where between 50-100 yds. Boolit was either 170 gr or 220 gr. may have had gas check. Boolits were out of Lyman/Ideal molds. Stopped loading it because I ran out of 700x. Used a lot of it for trap and skeet loads. Liked it better than Red Dot. Think it burns cleaner. This was out if a 30/06, 03a3.

richhodg66 have you any good test with sns 158 coated boolits using 700x ? im just starting and can use any advise what to look for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abunaitoo

I've been trying out IMR700x in my SMLE and 2A.
303- Lyman 314299 GC, un-sized, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 7" low.
10.0 gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 3", 5" low.
308- Lee 185g sized to 309, GC, RP, no filler, Larz carnuba red lube.
9.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 1 1/2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 6" low.
10.0gr- 50yds- 1" to 2". 100yds- 2" to 4", 4" low.
I'm going to try a 311 bullet in the 308.
Seems like I could use more powder. I read somewhere the max is 14.0gr.
Recoil was mild. Very clean burning. No primer pressure signs.
I'm wondering if anyone else has used this powder????
I did a search and didn't find much.
For me, it seems to work better than Unique, Red dot and Blue dot.

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Also check out
www.cornellpubs.com
for reasonable priced reprints of Ideal and Lyman manuals from the 1920s thru today .hundreds of titles.
Also 2nd and 3rd Lyman Cast bullets manuals available.Good reprints.

I had some fun today shooting lee lead cast checked 160 grain'ers frim my enfield no3 mk1 uesing 13 grains of 700x maybe a better load out there but this seemed to have decent recoil and accuracy was acceptable for plinking loads.

Found a good 700X load in my 30-06. RCBS 180 SP that's powder-coated and gas checked with 13.0 grains of 700X. It moves along at 1525 fps and shoots sub 1/2" at fifty yards. My last group was sub 1/4", now I just need to try it at longer distances.

Favorite powder for cast subs (247 grn) in 300 AAC BO

I use 700X in everything. Great powder, I recently started using it for loading trap shells too, go figure, finally got around to using it for what it was designed for.

Used 8.0 gr 700-X with 150 gr RNPB 311241 in .30-06 Springfield rebarreled with Ace 26 inch barrel, aperture sights, used as target gun and for training new shooters. Had a 12-year old shoot a center fire rifle for the first time, at 100 yard target, a five shot group. I was spotting. After the five, I told him “keep shooting”. Finally on the 13th shot he dropped one out of the black. He took home a target to be proud of.

I have used 700x with cast bullets in .30-06 and .303 in the same way Red Dot is used, only I used a grain or so less of it. Results have been similar to the Red Dot loads.

I managed to get a smattering of pistol/shotshell powders for free a while back, and it seems that they all work well for light plinking loads. Bullseye, Red Dot, 700x, Unique, PD (a very old can), and IMR SR7625 have all been highly satisfactory in my 308. I'll load anything that fits, up to 115 grains. Honestly, it's some of the most fun shooting that I do.:smile: