If you could position the deer the way you want at reasonable distance (say 50yds with a handgun, 100 yards with a rifle), where would you be aiming?
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If you could position the deer the way you want at reasonable distance (say 50yds with a handgun, 100 yards with a rifle), where would you be aiming?
If they are close to my treestand I hit them right in the neck with a 7 1/2" SBH and a 310gr RF. Out past 30yds or so, I try for a heart shot if I can get one, that usually breaks down at least one shoulder.
The exact same as if I was shooting archery. Right behind the front shoulder center mass at an angle exiting low out the heart…out of my tree stand… I don’t hunt on the ground. If I did I would aim in the same place. Double lungs at at an angle normally takes some of the heart with it. I normally aim about an inch back from shoulder outline. If I connect on the shoulder on the other side that means I have a little less meat to save. Fine with me because it normally drops animals in its tracks or close to it. I’ll sacrifice a little meat any day of the week to watch a deer drop on the spot. We get so many extra tags here for deer each year it doesn’t bother me to lose a little meat. I use the scrap for trapping so it doesn’t go to waste. Aiming center mass right behind the front shoulder always gives me a little “lee way cushion” if I flinch, brush in the way, or get excited! Never gonna miss that way imo!
I would like to go for the neck, head, just training always brings me back to center mass.
I always want to break one or both shoulders. This puts the animal down on the spot and usually messes up heart or lungs. This has worked well for me with cast bullets from .357 magnum, 30-30 and 300 BLK rifles. Will test my 350 Legend with 200 gr Lee RNFP's on hogs as soon as possible. :smile:
Kill Zone!
Where I used to hunt, 120 yards was a long shot. Most were closer to 80-90.
.30-30, M1A, or .45-70:: With open sights, about 2/3 down from the top, and just at the rear edge of the shoulder.
The shock wave/fluid pressure or something like that usually blows out the lungs and shatters the heart.
.30-06, 7mmMag: With a scope, same thing unless its a doe and inside of 100 yards.
Then, right below the front edge of the ear's hole. That pretty well shatters the skull and disconnects the spine.
A few facing away were hit at the base of the skull. A couple that were looking at me got it just above the nose.
Where I hunted, I never took a shot on one that wasn't standing still.
If one was walking along and didn't stop to listen or sniff, another would probably come by and stop within 20-30 minutes.
I've only shot one with the 7Mag.
It's really a little too much gun for where I was, but it was a fun kitchen project gun to put together,
and I hadn't killed anything with it.
Triplebeards spelled it out perfectly. I’ve shot over two hundred deer in my long hunting career and it’s always been the best place to aim, shoot, and hit. There are very few deer I haven’t collected after shooting them in that spot.
High shoulder, usually penetrates to the nerve cluster and bone bits cause extreme trauma.
We hunt river bottoms primarily with recurve bows. Most releases are well under 15 yards. We always go for the heart...
On caribou at long range, always shoulder/heart. If I had the rare chance of a close shot, I would take a neck shot. A lot easier to dress out that way.
Behind the shoulders trying to stay off of them. -06
Double lung. Ribs don't have much meat, where as shoulder shots tend to destroy a lot of meat and usually if I get one, I get both.
It depends on my gun, distance, weather, and time of the day. Raining or near dark, I am more likely to break down a shoulder. Morning shot, with snow to track, I will double lung them. Muzzleloader under 20 yards, with a solid rest, neck shots work great. I do dislike bloodshot shoulders, I always get stuck cleaning them up!
hc18flyer
Problem with a "double lung" is it works if the deer is broadside. Even then the deer can go a long way before lying down to die. If you've got good tracking conditions and no other hunters in the local (I have had two deer I double lunged go far enough other hunters to shoot them again and claimed them), then it's a viable shot. If "still" hunting [a misnomer BTW] a broadside shot is an exception. You'll most likely get a frontal, a quartering towards you or a quartering away shot. I don't do Texas heart shots so I omitted that shot. With those shots a behind the shoulder is not practical. A behind the shoulder shot on any quartering shot will result in a gut shot either going in or coming out. A frontal shot can easily miss both lungs.
I learned a long time ago the best and most assured shot is to the heart area regardless of angle. That are is where the arteries and viens come in and out of the heart itself. In deer it is an area a bit smaller than a soccer ball low between the front legs against the breast bone. put your cast bullet through that area and the deer will be down, if not DRT, then within not many yards. An easy frontal shot. With a quartering shot you'll not only get the heart area but also will probably breakdown one leg if not both.
Yes, it will damage a bit more meat and you'll end up with more burger. However, if you've ever lost after a couple days search a well double lung shot or poorly neck shot deer [I have in my younger less experienced days] you will appreciate the burger in the freezer in lieu of well fed coyote's, crows and magpies in the bush.....
If "hunting" from a stand (ground or tree) with the deer feeding in a plot or from corn thrown from a feeder then you should be comfortable, have a good rest, know the range and be able to pull off one of the other shots. I've no problems with that style of "hunting" since I've done it myself. However, if still hunting then go for the sure shot, the heart area.
Now that I actually think of where I shoot it seems that I try most often for the heart
or just behind the front leg hoping for the heart lungs, most always for the off side shoulder
institutively I shoot there without thinking
I actually hit the wrong poll button. I know it will waste meat but I want to down the animal, and trust my placement better when I just break his shoulder(s). With the 45-70, I know will bust through everything. On quartering away shot I will aim for the far shoulder just a bit forward of where most doing a proper quartering away shot take. I would never attempt a Texas heart shot.
In my experience shoulder shots will not waste meat with cast bullets, at least up to impact velocities of 2200 fps or so. You can pretty much eat right up to the hole. Now if you blast one in the shoulder at woods ranges with a 270, '06, 308 etc. and typical cup and core bullets you will lose meat for sure, which is why most devotees of these calibers recommend the lung shot. But if your situation is like many of ours and a lung shot deer runs 60-80 yards, you are likely to have other people shooting at it, which is lovely.
You can avoid all that by using cast bullets of decent weight and moderate velocity and placing the shot directly into one or preferably both shoulders. The animal will go down on the spot, possibly kick around a bit and then expire. You will lose no meat to speak of and nobody else will shoot your "dead" deer. Same result can be achieved with higher velocity guns by using the heaviest bullets available for the caliber. I know an older deer hunter who used to trespass and poach deer in his younger days. He and his friends shot lots of deer and they found that heavy and slow bullets placed in the shoulder would anchor the animal pronto and not waste meat. Think about it, if you're someplace you're not supposed to be and you shoot something, you don't want a long tracking job. You want to grab the deer and get out of there. His caliber of choice was the 30-06 and he always used the heaviest bullets he could find for it at the time.
When young, we had a tree stand. My dad had an early 44Mag from Ruger. He loaded it to 1100fps or so using cast 240gr bullets. My Brothers and I would shoot deer in the apple orchard and through both lungs at 40yrds or so. We are lots of venison back then.
I've shot a couple of deer in the neck with a 455gr cast 45-70 cast boolit and the pill went right through without hitting the vertebra. Both animals acted like they were bitten by a bug - so I shot again into the shoulder and broke them down. Of course, they would have gone off and died with that big hole in the neck but it would have taken a while.
The same place I aim with jacketed bullets or my bow. Right behind the front shoulder, double lung. Never fail to kill in seconds. I know some disagree but neck shots are very iffy, shoot low and hit the windpipe and you will be chasing a deer with a tracheotomy trying for a kill shot.
I found that a shoulder shot will plant about anything where it stood. The op said cast boolit so unless you are one of the very good cast boolit loaders (I'm not), about 2000 fps is about as fast as you can push a larger cal boolit with accuracy. A cast boolit at 2000 or less impact velocity will not destroy enough meat to matter. I have shot several moose with 270win, 308 win, 338 win and 300H&H. I put a 180 gr Speer through both lungs and the heart at about 75 yds. It walked off about 30yds and stopped. The second shot was about 4" from the first and it rared up and flopped on it's back. If you don't drop a moose on the first shot it will walk into a pond if there is one close. Try skinning a moose in a pond and then tell me it's ok if they wander off 30 or 40 yds.
The last whitetail I shot, ran off about 100yds after a lung shot with a 85gr 243 at over 3000 fps through the lungs. It took me a couple of hours to find it. I'm am not interested in tracking wounded critters so I want them to stop where they are hit. Front shoulders seems to be the only large target area that gets the results I want.
First of all, you never shoot an animal unless you know exactly where to place an instantly fatal shot. They deserve that respect.
For a deer a neck shot centered top to bottom is preferred, if the neck is clear and the deer is standing still. Next is a heart shot, behind the shoulder at the leg body joint about 2" up from the belly.
Unless you want to loose half the meat on a deer, you do not ever shoot the front shoulder.
With a swamp hog, just shoot the vermin, to kill, and then bury them. Dry land hogs can be real good eating, I shoot them in the head , neck or heart. Head is between the eye and ear hole.
Living in MT, if they run 30-40 yards, they don't usually make it to a pond, in some areas, 30-40 miles won't make it to a pond. I shoot a 38-55 with a 255gr clip on WW air cooled PB bullet. I'm getting about 1600fps ish. This is the offside front shoulder of a deer I hit at 120 yards. Attachment 309952
Double lungs with the same weapon give me less meat damage so I tend to go for that. But again, in my area, a 50 yard run isn't anything to worry about. I also bowhunt and get very similar tracking jobs.
Attachment 309953
30 yard shot on this animal, both lungs, ran about 50ish yards but was easily found even in what is considered "cover" here.
Wound shown is the entry. Exited out bottom of chest/heart, steep downward angle.
Attachment 309954
Attachment 309955
A most interesting topic. I'm an old timer who has killed a lot of deer. I hunted with my father and grandfather when I was a kid. They were avowed neck shooters. The deer would not run and fall in front of another hunter was their reasoning. A neck shot usually dropped Bambi on the spot. When I farmed I usually had deer in my corn fields. A shot from the tractor seat through the ears put meat in the freezer. Had kids who liked eating venison. But I found that deer shot through the lungs or heart were better eating. When field dressing and removing the entrails, the thorasic cavity was usually filled with blood on a heart or lung shot. The blood was not in the meat! Head shots and neck shots resulted in venison that the meat was bloody. There was no blood in the thorasic cavity! These later years, I always go for a shoulder, heart, and lung shot. The meat tastes better. My ole 45-70, 40-65 Win and 50-70 uses soft cast boolits! They make a large hole going in and usually try to crush a shoulder. The soft lead projectile has expanded and makes a large exit hole that lets out plenty of blood. I've had heart shot deer run 30~70 feet before falling over. Just shot a buck this past season in PA during the flintlock season. My 54 cal Leigh County flint rifle has taken plenty of whitetails! Big soft bullet through the shoulders does the trick. But sometimes in thick timber one only has a head or neck shot. Take it! Don't wait! You will still have Bambi in the freezer instead of him jumping out in front of your car or truck!
I don't ever shoot for the shoulder either unless it can't be avoided on a quartering shot. Soft bullets make a lot of damage even cast.
P.S. Behind the shoulder or upper neck.
With my 45-70 405 grain, I prefer the shoulder.
Depending upon the terrain, your personnel circumstances and the time of day there's a lot to be said for the shoulder.
Alloy definitely makes a difference. I use straight COWW's and PC my bullets, resulting in a final hardness of 10-12 BHN. In my 30-30 I've used the Lyman 311041 and 311008 at 2200 fps to harvest deer with shoulder shots. Deer drop on the spot and the bullets give complete penetration with very little bloodshot meat. I used the same process to make NOE 120 grain roundnoses for my 300 BLK and used it on hogs. Worked well for small to medium hogs, but sub-par performance on larger hogs has convinced me to try the 350 Legend. I'm using the LEE 200 gr RNFP PC'd, at 2200 fps. Accuracy is great and it should be the equal of the 35 Remington on hogs. We'll see when I get the chance to bust a 300 lb boar in the shoulder!
I'm 100% with Tripplebeards (Post #3).
geo
Brain- prefer broadside with head down, however under hunting conditions that is not as likely. I can not advocate for others to make a brain shot, takes a really diciplined and patient trigger finger and mind set. No chasing, or tracking, and much easier butchering. Have to have a distance limit in mind, and be very aware of rifles trajectory at possible shooting distances. That being said -- this year I did 2 neck shots as that was what was available. It was a bit messy while butchering. Estimate that I lost about a pound of meat on one and about 2-2.5# on the 2nd one. Meat loss due to bone fragments, hair, lead & blood, mostly blood between muscle tissues. Every bullet or arrow is going to cause some meat loss if it goes thru muscle.
True. And half the meat on the deer I've shot hasn't been in the front shoulders. Hindquarters and the backstraps are about 65-70% of the good meat. Front shoulders and neck are about 10% each plus a little bit from the front legs above the elbows. Solid neck (spine) shots are definitely effective but I tracked (and recovered) a friend's deer that was shot through the neck a bit lower than intended. The bullet went through the windpipe. The deer went over 600 yards and drowned on his own blood. My friend pulled the shot about 2" lower than he wanted. Not too much off the mark for field conditions. If it wasn't for fresh snow and patience the deer would have been lost. Tiny flecks of blood on the snow every couple yards kept us from getting the trail mixed up too many times with other deer tracks. Since I found that deer I've never taken another neck shot. FWIW my preference is quartering away a bit and break the far shoulder. I lose a little meat (part of one shoulder), but I don't lose the deer because they never go far and they bleed well. And if I pull my shot by 2" the only one that will know is me because the outcome will be the same.
One thing about brain shots that needs to be kept in mind is that there is zero blood loss. Field dressing ASAP helps even though the heart isn't pumping any blood out. I first discovered that when I had three tags. Two buck tags and a doe tag. Two bucks were following a doe. I dropped the biggest buck on the spot. Second shot put the doe down about 50 feet away. The second buck turned at the second shot and ran between the two downed deer. It stopped and I shot it through the brain. I dragged them together to field dress them. I did the brain shot last. After skinning brain shot buck the amount of blood oozing out was like something out of a horror movie. Same for the meat. Taste was adversely affected. The other two were normal. The first buck was a neck shot and the doe was a shoulder shot.
Later I helped skinning and processing 23 deer headshot by LE in a metro herd reduction. Most weren't field dressed for several hours. They all oozed blood after skinning and the meat was a bloody mess.
My wife and I hunt for the meat and want to damage as little as possible. In that respect, CB's are actually more versatile than modern high velocity bullets at ranges under 150 yards. The old saying,-"You can eat right up to the hole"- applies.
People keep saying that, but this is what the front shoulder exit on me deer looked like. 120 yards, 255grn flat nose .379 out of a 38-55 at 1600-1700fps. If you hit bone, I still get massive damage and meat loss. So I shoot for heart/lung now and try to avoid large bones in meaty areas.
Attachment 310193
I took two bucks this year with cast boolits. Marlin CB357mag, Lee 125rf, 6 grs Unique. Marlin CB30-30, RD165, 10.6 grs Unique. Both neck shots up close. If using 45-70, I'd shoot behind the shoulder at the distances mentioned.
Far side shoulder or near side shoulder depending on the presentation
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c37dc1a3_c.jpg
Being a meat hunter....I aim behind the shoulder through the lungs...I can walk the extra 30-50 yards to recover the animal.
redhawk