357 Max as a rifle cartridge ?

I have a 357 Mag barrel for my H&R single shot that I will probably ream to the 357 Max. I have visions of using 35 cal rifle bullets in it, since the OAL doesn't have to fit into a revolver cylinder. Hornady has their new FTX in 140 and 200 gr, and there are other J bullets.
I only have revolver bullet molds for this caliber, so I will be looking for a 35 cal rifle bullet mold.
Any body tried the Max in a rifle like this ? What sort of loads did you use ?

Babore has a custom MGM 20 inch Encore carbine. I have a encore custom 15inch MGM "pistol". We both use 180grain BRP boolits with a RNFP configuration. With some loads and some powders I actually get more speed than he does. The 357max case only holds so much powder...you can get real close to 35rem velocities in a strong action, but it will never be a 358 or Whelen.

It is real tough to beat 180-200 grain boolits over Vhit N-120,but BaBore is having some good luck with Alliant MP300 recently..I have not found any MP300 to try yet.:-( I have had some really great groups with the RCBS 200 seated a bit deep also,but


My standard plate bangin deer killin load is

BRP 360-180 (ww/pure 50/50 waterdropped)
22.5 gr Vhit N-120
Rem 7.5 spark plug
MML lithium grease based lube.

THAT load has been worked for MY encore....proceed cautiously at your own peril.

Yep, I'm using almost the same exact load as 357Max, but I'm at 23.0 grains. I clocked these last weekend at 1,953.3 fps. Max says he's getting over 2,100 fps with his load and 5 inches less bbl. I very likely still have the new bbl blues and more throat than him. I've only got about 600 rounds downrange since I got it a couple months ago. All cast too. Maybe with some more wear-in it will pick up.

Using the new Alliant 300-MP, the same 180 gr boolit does around 2,133 fps with an ES of 9.8 fps. This is with 24.0 grain. Another good boolit in my Max is my 363-200 GC. Very accurate with the VV N-120. I'm working up 300-MP loads for it this weekend.

Accuracy with both powders is 3/4 to 1 inch, 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

I was using Lil-gun but was warned about burning out the throat in my Ruger #1. Velocities were a little over 2400fps with the 358156 boolit and slightly over 2300fps with the 360180fp boolit.
Also shot the Rem 180hp and the Hornady 180gr SSP bullets at a little over 2300fps with Lil-gun. Haven't found any VV-120, don't know if it is discontinued or not, but will try and find some of the Alliant stuff. Otherwise, will use H4227, or my meager supply of WW680, which shot well with J words.

There is a SGB for the Ranch Dog 190 gn boolit that will close in late August or September. A member here sent me 35 or so of these and I really like them. I think the mould is an RD 359-190; this is the address.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73902.

RCBS also has a 200 gn if you want to go that heavy in a 357 MAX. Here is an excellent article on the 357 MAX in a carbine length barrel if you have a minute.

http://bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=152

DH

I have the RCBS 35-200 and it weighs closer to 220gr with GC and lube. I've shot them from a Browning Lowall 357 Mag, and it shot very accurately at MAX loads, like the bullet on the powder or nearly on the powder, H110. You won't find that load in any book! Safer and more sane is the Saeco #354 185gr or one of the NOE heavy designs over H110, but still in the 357 Mag chambering. Those NOE molds are beauties!

As for the 357 Max, its more than I want in my Lowall with its narrow, steel, crescent buttplate. The 336s in 35 Rem are far more comfortable to shoot with such loads.

I didn't see any mention of AA1680 or AA2200, but both should be good in the Max.

I have been having very good results with my rechambered NEF (357 mag to max) with the BA Bore 215gr. 358 plinker/35PP bullet. Patched with drafting vellum and loaded over a stiff charge of Lil' Gun it is very accurate and hits hard. Haven't chronoed it yet but it rings our hanging steel out to 385M quite well.

excess650, I have two of the Browning lowwalls in 357 mag and I have been shooting the RCBS 200 grain bullet with AA#9 and it is great. A person I know had one and he liked LilGun with the heavy bullets.

I shoot the rcbs 35-200 in my 357 max contender, and it shoots very well. 17 Grains of 296. I also shoot the noe 360-180 with 20 grains of 296 and it shoots very well too.

I have had my 357 max Contender with a 21" barrel for about ten years and have enjoyed it. I use it as my light black bear rifle. I started using cast boolits a few months back and the rifle has liked my Lee 158 gr SWC boolits with gas checks. With the peep sights I get 2" groups at 100m so far. I am loading it with 2400 powder for an MV of about 1900 fps.

Good morning
Next time up I am going to transform a Marlin 336 into a Supermag rifle to go along with my DW Supermag revolver. But it is a bit larger than the .357 Max.

Here is a site of that crusty old Gunsmith in Orygone that has links to yet other good discussions on the Max.

It seems some people trying to make the 357 Swift out of a great cartridge cut it's history short before it was fully developed and like the 45-70 is being reborn as folks find out about the cartridge's true performance capabilities.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121

I just got a 21 in 357 max barrel for my TC contender. I currently have plenty of brass, primers and both Lil Gun and IMR 4198 powder.

Any suggestions for these and boolets on the heavier end (158 - 200 grains, cast and jacketed)?

Thanks

D

I dunno about Lil Gun, but I doubt you can get enough 4198 in the cases. 1680 seems to be the slowest powder listed in Speer #13.

Since I started this thread, I have reamed out my H&R barrel to the Maxi. My first effort used 140 gr FTX Jwords over Hodgdon's starting load of H110. I got 2416 fps average velocity for 1788 fpe. They went into 2" at 50 yds, more work is indicated. I use a lot of Lee TL-358-158 in handguns for the magnum cartridge, of which I have also shot a few out of the rifle before reaming, for 1600 fps and better accuracy.
I was not aware that Lee made a GC bullet in 358. I usually only use a GC on rifle bullets. I don't think I can use the bullets from the mold I have at 2400 fps; so I either need to find a slower load or equip myself with mold, checks, and sizing die in 358.
I have heard the same recommendation from many folks over on the GBO H&R board: 1680 and Hornady's 180 gr Single Shot Pistol J bullet, for what ever that bit of boolit heresy is worth, lol.
I also like Lee's 2R-358-158; no GC, but a nice round nose. A SWC just doesn't seem right in a rifle, haha.
So far, I love the Maxi !
Thanks for all the helpful info in this thread. The Maxi aficiados really came out of the woodwork on this one. It will take a while to digest it all !

I also have a .357 Max in an old H & R Topper rifle. The 180 grain XTP bullet and H110 make a really nice combo of velocity and performance. Tried the Hornady 200 grain round nose, but was not satisfied. Probably need to change to another powder but have not tried others yet.

Discovered the most fun was to set this gun up for plain old .38 Special wadcutters with 2.7 grs Bullseye. Lots of fun to shoot and a pretty nice small game load out to about 30 yards. Squirrels, rabbits, etc. don't go far with a .38 caliber hole chopped straight through them.

Steve

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/10...s/100_0756.jpg

thats my little 357 max, rolling block. loves 200gr rcbs boolits.

45nut, how much does that weigh? Also who's barrel and twist and how does it shoot?

I have a Ruger #1 in 357 max. that I have been wringing out. 2400 works very well with the 190RD and the RCBS 35-200 hovering around 2,300fps. Weights above that, it seems WC-680 (old winchester 680, not AA1680) will do the job the best, with 235gr boolits at 2100fps and 265gr boolits at 1900fps. Best groups hover less than an inch, then I get excited and put one out about an inch away. Always the last shot!!

Best groups are with 200gr and up, but the 358156 is no slouch, at maybe 2" and 2500fps. 38-180sil RCBS is in between the two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doc Highwall

45nut, how much does that weigh? Also who's barrel and twist and how does it shoot?

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She weighs in at 8lbs 15oz :popcorn: no idea what make or twist but she shoots quite well. [smilie=s:

Thanks for all the suggestions. I needed an idea on where to focus my currently limited reloading and shooting time.

D

its been a long time since ive been signed in here.i saw this thread and i like talking about the 357max.

22grains of w296 under a 190 grain Ranch Dog gives these kind of speeds and thats out of a 15 inch barrel
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

I shot a number of deer with the Ranch Dog boolit and it works great on them.if you dont have time to cast and want a real good 158grain hunting bullet you all should try the 158grain Hornady xtp flat nose,it puts deer down very fast and I have pushed them well past the 2000 fps range

I've had good luck with 20gr H110 and a 215 SWC on deer. Also 16gr H110 with the same boolit in a dan wesson. One of the guys I hunt with is having fantastic luck with RL7 in a handi rifle and jacketed 158's

Hi all,
I'm toying with an idea of building up a little Shutzen / Off hand, Black powder rifle for 100 and 200 yd.
I have the opportunity to pick up a little Low Wall reasonably cheap but will need a new barrel.

So I was looking around on the Forums and spotted this thread on the 357 Max.
I think the calibre is about right but not sure on case capacity for BP, I'm guessing about 30.0 grns FFF, which would send a 200+ grn bullet down range well enough. The bullet will be breach seated.
Of course the rifle could be used with smokeless too.

Just wondering what twist rate is being used. Any help appreciated.

Then there's the .357/.44 Bain and Davis.???? Anyone got any info on this one.

Thanks all, M S.

My T/C Carbine in 357 Max has a twist rate of 1/14". It has shot well any boolit I have tried from a 150 RN plain base to the 204Gr RFGC.

Stevens created a variety of 32-35 caliber black and semi-smokeless cartridges in 1890-1900 period for similar purpose. some of them are detailed in Cartridges of the World, obsolete section. unfortunately, i do not have a copy handy. 32-30 comes to mind.

35-30 maynard is also similar in capacity to a 357 maximum, but used in weaker actions.

Twist is normally 1 in 14 inches, case capacity is normally 34 grains of water

Hi all,
I realise this is an old thread but am very interested in this topic.
I am toying with an idea of building a Shutzen / Off hand, type of rifle for 100 and 200 yd competition.
Here's the catch...... for black powder use.

I know there are plenty of BP calibers out there, I've got, or had most of them at some stage.
This is what will hopefully be, a fun little project, bucket list thing if you like, that works.
I like the 35 cal, obviously it's in between the normal, 32 and 38.

Others to consider I guess are.... Necked down .38/55 - 357. 44 Mag / 357.

Just wondering if anyone here has experience with any of these calibers,... twist rates, bullet length and weight, case capacity etc.

Cheers, Ian in Oz.

357 max makes an excellent black powder cartridge. It should be a good choice for schutzen competition, very light recoil and accurate in a properly chambered barrel.

Never used a 357 Max with black powder, have been shooting black powder in a 20 in encore barrel in. 44-1.6 (445 case) for a while. It's been fun using a 200 grain cast bullet. I can not see why .357 Max would not work well also. JMHO

Rafe

Thanks for the replies guys,
Must be getting doddery, didn't realise I'd put two posts up. hahaha.

Beginning to think the 357 Max will be the go.
Or 38/55 - 357. shall we call it 35/45. :razz:

Cheers, Ian from Oz.