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Last week it was 70 degrees and sunny at my nearby gun club. We have six benches under roof. I am usually alone mid-week. Last week four young new club members showed up and wanted to know about my Garand, M1903, M1917 and Swiss M1911 Carbine.
I gave a tutorial on each and then let them fire cast boolits out of all arms. It was uplifting to see young shooters interested in old arms.
Adam
I've always found young people to be rather fascinated by any of the old infantry rifles.
The conversation usually starts out with, "Wow, what's that"?
I like to let young shooters shoot my antiques. They are always amazed that a rifle over 125 years old can shoot as well as their new ones.
Guys,
I was uplifted because the young folk were not fans of the AR in all of its flavors. In July 1965 SAM issued me an M16 and I was not impressed with that groundhog round then or now. Anyway, the new club members were interested in historic arms that they got to shoot. I hold an MA in History and am president of my county historical society for the last 19 years.
Adam
I'm not a young person, and I still think it's pretty amazing to realize that a hundred years ago, the average soldier was packing a rifle that would easily drop a moose at two hundred yards. 30-06, 303 Brit, 8mm Mauser, -- Those guys definitely weren't undergunned.
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My oldest grandson joined Army last fall. Shot a number of rifles with family over Christmas leave. He stated that he like the Garand over the AK's and AR's. The boys put over 100 rounds downrange from the Garand that afternoon. I've started reloading .30-06 this weekend.
Even OLD shooters like OLD military guns! Most of my collection is milsurps from the good ol' USofA. And yes it's blast to do the show & tell, history lessons, and range time with the younger shooters. I even had a young shooter prefer the 1903 Springfield over the Garands, M1A's and M1 Carbine and other semi-autos.
Steel, be it blued or Parkerized, and wood, be it walnut, birch, beech, etc., possess a charisma lacking in aluminum and plastic. The latter has so become the norm that the old stuff seems unique to the synthetic generation despite millions upon millions having been made.
DG
While not old military, I've had many people entranced by the Schuetzen style. They usually go through stages:
snorting at the old weapon saying if I shoot it, it will probably blow up
asking where I buy ammunition for something that old
warning that I'm going to blow up my gun by having a bullet stuck in the barrel
reminding me that I need a full case of powder or I'm going to blow up my gun or ring the barrel
marveling that people stand up and shoot on their hind two legs
asking to try it.
+1 on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
Our range has 1000 + members. Of that 1000 + I may have had 20 or so inquire about what I'm shooting. Some do look up and wrinkle their noses when a cloud of Black Powder smoke drifts by. Most have absolutely no interest in anything that isn't an AR or a ten mile wonder weapon with a mounted astronomy telescope for sights. Of course I have no interest in their modern plastic guns either so I guess we're about even. I like old whiskey and older guns.
What's not to like about milsurps, other than the skyrocketing prices, lack of ammo for certain calibers, lack of replacement parts ect ect. Other than that, they are great. In case it's not clear, I'm only halfway kidding.
jr612,Quote:
Originally Posted by jr612
Kidding is OK. Welcome to this Site. I collect Military Surplus Arms and bought MANY in the $12-$16 range back in the 1960s. ALL are now in my vaults. IF I had a $1,000 in 1961, I would be a millionaire today!
Adam
I have always loved old , new and everything in-between.Quote:
Originally Posted by elk hunter
I have black powder, plastic, open sights, lasers, telescoped, tritium, holographic, and digital sighted weapons.
Long range, short range and in-between.
I like BB guns, pellet guns, CO2, springers, pump-ups and PCP.
I don't have much interest in paint ball and airsoft.
I guess I'm picky.
I know the feeling, I started collecting around 2005. If I knew then whay I know now, I would have bought many more. Live and learn I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Helmer
Always had a fascination for milsurps, the older the better. These my 1900,1901 & 1902 LE's from over a century ago!
https://i.imgur.com/ecTTkwil.jpg
I don’t know what you guys are talking about…. I hate old military rifles…Attachment 298090Attachment 298091Attachment 298092
I have two acquaintances that are ~25-30 yrs of age and FFLs. They both tell me that their contemporaries, well, most customers under 35-40 years of age who purchase military surplus firearms do so because they have selected those specific weapons when setting up to play shoot-'em-up video games in their childhood, youth, or even present day pastimes.
There are no scoped pre-64 Winchester Model 70s, or Remington ADL/BDLs as selection options in these video games, and given the decline in the number of younger hunters (presumably because there's no smart phone app for deer hunting), my two young FFL acquaintances tell me that their contemporaries almost never buy scoped wood and metal sporting arms.
Noah
Boy- O Boy, how things have changed, and got crazy expensive these days.
Go to a gun show now-a-days, and you will learn how much the young folks like these old war horses.
Even though most have never served a day in the Military, there are lot of these 20-ish guys, that are carrying these rifles around, buying and selling and trading.
My brother thinks the Video war games are driving it. Maybe? Hard to tell, as some that I have talked to, have not even shot these guns. Honestly they really dont look like they could take the recoil anyway. Just the same, they are buying them like crazy, and I guess they just like to pet them?
Like many of you guys, I had my chance, several years ago, when they were abundant and cheap.
Back then I was interested in other things. That said, I bought a few, but should have bought all I could afford.
I remember several times when SKS's and Mosins where stuck barrel down in 55 gal trash cans at the big Tulsa show. Less than a hundred bucks... take your choice, of any or all.
Wish I would have got a Smith Corona 03A3, before they got so high. Also a Swedish Mauser, and maybe a .30 carbine or two.
Well its too late for the bargains, but I do have a better job, than I did years ago, when they were cheaper.
I still go to the shows, but dont bring home a gun very often.
There are probably a lot of Ukrainians that probably with they had some of those cheap Mosins too!
$100 invested in the S&P 500 in 1965 would be worth $27,000 today.
In 1965, $100 would buy 3 M-1 carbines worth $5000 today
Or 6 SMLE’s worth $2500 today
Or 2 M98’s worth $1000 today.
Guns are rarely a wise investment.
Looks like you've got a pretty good start on your collection so far.
.............Buckshot
Maybe not, but they are a very enjoyable investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
dverna,
I think guns are a wise investment, especially when cops are defunded and they are only minutes/hours away when seconds count. An S&P 500 stock account is less useful than my M1911 when a home invasion is under way in the middle of the night. LOL.
Adam
Well.if I could go back to 65,I know what I would buy......crates full of army surplus WLA and Indian parts..... new headlights that were worthless in 65,now sell for $1000 each ,new speedos sold for $1.each,now $1200+.............and what did I buy ? .
My Grandson a few years back shooting my (he now thinks it's his....probably will be) Argentine M1909 at 600 yards. He's a Sgt in the Army over in Germany right now.
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You missed the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Helmer
Only a fool would not have a decent armory of guns for self defense. IMO that is a necessity. But how many guns is that, and what types? Lots of opinions on that, but I will share mine if you will indulge me.
Necessary guns:
Two pump action 20 or 12 ga. shotguns
2 Glocks in a caliber of 9mm or larger
2 AR15's in 5.56
These are, IMO the best fighting guns for most people. Plenty of firepower, easy to maintain and easy to get ammunition for. We can get into a pissing match over details (like 1911's being better than Glocks) but the premise remains the same...a couple of good shotguns, a couple of good pistols and a couple of battle rifles.
The rest of our guns are either hunting guns, collector guns, competition guns, or toys. My point was that none of the guns used for hunting, collecting, competition or (as most of them are) toys are good investments. I have a lot more guns than the basic armory outlined above but shooting is my hobby and I can afford to piss away some money for fun activities. I make my money on other investments that offer a far better return than 20 or 30 Mosin's, M98's, pre 64 M70's, K38's, SMLE's, Kimbers, Marlin lever actions, etc etc. I can think of only one exception and this is full auto Class III guns as they have gone crazy over the last 15 years.
I have very rarely lost money on a gun but I have never done better than the stock market. About the best money to be made is buying components and .22LR and selling the stuff during the panics that happen. Easy to double and triple your money every 4-8 years.
If someone is making more money on guns than the stock market over the long haul (10 years or more), they have a poor financial advisor. Just my experience.
Now, things change if/when the SHTF. That $100 Mosin someone bought 20 years ago might be worth 2 oz of gold to the guy who does not have a gun to defend his family.
can i +1 too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
You are indeed lucky to have had this audience, and kudos to you for taking the time to teach them a bit about each! Four of five years back (? time flies?) I acquired my dream of a genuine M1 Carbine, and took that -- along with my pride and joy Garand -- to the range. I actually had thought of wearing my WWI Campaign Hat, too, but deciding not at the last minute as it might have been a bit too much ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Helmer
Anyhoos, I had a few ftf's with the carbine, and a sage advised "all it needs is some oil in the right places" which I applied, and it began shooting 100%. I was thrilled as I had just given "too-much" money for it, to not have it function 100%? Whew! I then took the Garand out of my truck, and a group of four kids -- I'd guess they were all in the 18-21 year age group -- came over, and albeit they were polite, they began a diatribe of dissing both of my prized firearms.
One kid -- the oldest (?) had an AK variant; another had a bolt-.22, and the other two each had a Ruger 10/22. BUT, these young pivots of wisdom went into great detail as to how the carbine was pure junk and could not even penetrate a winter jacket unless it was less than five or six feet away! And all the poor soldiers who got shot when their enBloc hit the ground and the enemy -- hundreds of yards away heard it.
This encounter-- albeit, again, they were "good" kids -- made an indelible impression upon me! I thought, but did not bring to any of their attentions, the countless graves throughout the world whose residents are there thanks to the Garand or M1 Carbine...
I am, again, ever so happy to hear of YOUR experience with the youngsters. Thanks for sharing! I pray there are more youngsters out there like these!
geo
Young beginners are always fascinated more with mil surplus and often asked if the gun has killed anyone in a war. I tell I don’t know for sure, there was a good chance of it!
sure the video games are all m16 and ak.. but the mainline thing is political in nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah Zark
i gave my both of my sons sporterizeds 91 Mauser in 7.65x53. the oldest one is a carbine(1892) and the other is a rifle(1893). both are Lowes. while mine is a 1900 rifle version, DWM. i loaded up 50 cartridges each of the 185gr Lee rn gc and rel 7 and gave them to my boys. now i have reload them........AGAIN.:bigsmyl2: my youngest son is about 1 hour away, while the other is 10-11 hours away.
they really like the guns, my oldest said that he will use bolt action over semi every day day, but sunday. he will use the bolt twice.
georgerkahn,
Thanks for your interesting post. The Battlefield is a noisy place and the "ping" of an empty Garand clip being ejected would be hard to hear. My several uncles were army and marine WWII veterans and all laughed at the "ping" story. Not all guys in a platoon ejected a clip at the same time, so any clip ping meant nothing.
There are 67 counties in PA and mine is the most rural; it is said we have more cows than people here and that suits me just fine. Our young folks are sensible and appreciate history. For 10 years I substituted as a high school teacher in local high schools about 30 days a year and I know most young folks, or they know me. All are farm kids. Most hunt and are good young citizens far from urban pollution.
Be well.
Adam