ISO New dual use rifle

Update: picked up a Howa 6.5 Grendel

Requirements: .224 or larger bullet, small rifle primer, factory ammo (no wildcat), rifle to be about 6.5 lbs or less, threaded barrel.

Will see most use at the range, some varmint shooting, and will be my mountain stalking rifle for deer (shots to 200 yards). I have used a .223 Rem before and found it adequate though not ideal. I would not feel unprepared with something in this chambering, but have been looking at the 6.5 Grendel as an option. Any thoughts on something different?

With SR primer, not much to choose from. The .350 Legend sounds like a good choice and uses SR primers. In any event, it's one of a few calibers that are reasonably available.

Right, the small primer requirement creates a real brain tickler. I would look into the 6.5 Grendel, looks like some pretty good ballistics with that one. Of course the 7.62x39 is another commonly available cartridge or the .300 Black out.

I had also thought of a 300 Ham'r, but don't know of any bolt guns chambered for it.

I say Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39. Short, Light and Threaded barrel. Hornady Ammunition uses small rifle primers. R-P brass uses small rifle primers but it's hard to find.

I hadn't thought much about the 350L. I did have a 7.62 RAR a while back. It was nice, but the majority of the ammo is LRP.

Just curious, you say factory ammo so why the small rifle primer requirements.

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Originally Posted by Shawlerbrook

Just curious, you say factory ammo so why the small rifle primer requirements.

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I plan to reload and have a stock of SRP, but no LRP. I also want something that I can resupply at a store or online order if needed. I don't always have time to load, but like to shoot. I can then use that brass to fortify whatever else I have been able to acquire.

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Originally Posted by Redleg11b

I plan to reload and have a stock of SRP, but no LRP. I also want something that I can resupply at a store or online order if needed. I don't always have time to load, but like to shoot. I can then use that brass to fortify whatever else I have been able to acquire.

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That's a good strategy these days. FYI, most low to mid-range rifle loads will work just fine with LP primers. Of course, be cautious and work your way up. I use them exclusively in .45-70, they are more accurate with my pistol powder loads.

7.62x39 is a good cartridge, but unless you want an AK/SKS or are already set up with it I would pass. Cheap steel case ammo dried up quite awhile ago and I doubt it will return anytime soon. One of the biggest advantages of that stuff was you could pull the FMJ bullet and replace it with a soft point for cheap hunting ammo. Brass case hunting loads for this one are few and far between.

6mm ARC, 6mm GT? The 6 GT is bigger, and still compact. Both have small primer from what I have seen in brass I have on shelf.
I also thought Starline, and perhaps some Commercially loaded Ammo for the Creedmoor uses small primers. So, Perhaps the 6.5 CM is an option.

I think I remember some 6.5 Creedmoor brass is small primer, but my rememberer is getting rusty lately.
Take care,
Rick

I know you don't want a wildcat round, but it's just about the only way I know of to meet the SRP requirement. I think I'D find a used or even shot-out .223 bolt action and get it rebarreled to 6x45 mm or 6x47 mm, and spend a little time at the reloading bench. If you want a gas-auto, the 6x45 mm should work in a Mini-14 or AR-whatever rifle.
You can't drive out to Wally World and buy ammo for it, but neither can one do that with .223, now.
Beyond that, there's always a good .243 Win. bolt action, which is more expensive for range-play, but will effectively reach out to twice the range at which you contemplate doing the most shooting. At the end of the day, spending more than minimal time at the range usually translates to similar time at a reloading bench.

A lightweight bolt action 6.8 SPC would work fine and most brass is SP.
But it would have to be custom, no one makes one.
I’d stick with the .223 for the parameters in the OP.


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what texas by god says. ive found 6.8spc to be an outstanding round. I dont cast bullets for it. .270 bullets are plentiful. with a 90 grain soft point it will do most anything you want.very flat shooting round. but 115's also shoot very well in it too. get a few pounds of AA2200 and you'll be all set.
I put together a little 6.8ar and I dont think the thing weighs even 5.5lbs.
300 HAMR is a very interesting round but in a bolt action would probably be a custom order

At this point a 6.8 bolt gun (current requirement of a manually operated action for deer here in PA) is not going to be as easy to find as a Grendel or 350L. Will look around and see what pops up though. I hadn't actually thought of that one.

Thank you all for the insights.

Cancel the 7.62x39, all the brass, brass uses LRP.

Given the requirements, I would go with a .223/5.56x45NATO. It's plentiful, cheap, SRP, will kill a deer, available in short light, even mini bolt guns, cheap to reload, what's not to like? The Ruger American ''Ranch'' rifle comes with a threaded barrel and looks like a 10 shot detachable box magazine, and a rail for scope mounting. Looks like a ''Timex'' rifle, ''Takes a licki'n and keeps on ticki'n''.

Lapua makes 6.5 CM brass that uses small rifle primers.

350 L would be just fine. Any bolt action would fit the bill or can go with an ar15 set up. Small rifle primer and good hunting gun out to 200yd and rings steel nice. Light on powder for reloading and cheap projectiles. Ammo is 12=15 a box of 20.

Other option is 300 blackout, Savage makes a bolt, so does Ruger. Both rounds are kinda a 223 case modded to two different size bullets. One 308 the other 356 ish. Both have basically no kick what so ever. Ammo for 300 is going to be 17=25 per 20.

Since you are thinking ahead some research to see what one reloads well with a powder you can get your hands on easy.

I have no clue about 6.5G. I know I have never seen one box of ammo on a shelf in my area. Not sure any of this helps but good luck with whatever you decide.

very true, 6.5 Creedmoor is another great round, talk about super accurate, the bergara I traded into will shoot 1" or smaller groups all day long right out of the box with starline brass, blemished bullets, both 140 grain and 143 grain at about 2600-2650 fps with h4350. not sure about the weight with a scope on it.
too bad your all the way in PA I would trade some large rifle primers for small rifle.
if you had lg rifle primers your options open up. 22-250 could get you some fun target time and can rip both lungs out of any deer you encounter while also being an outstanding varmint round

I have an AR in 6.5 Grendel. It's supper accurate.

32-20…:mrgreen:

Quite a few choices if you didn't need commercial loads. Mine is a 6BR.

There is the 6mm Creedmore. Don't know if any commercial are SR. There is more of that on the shelves now than .357mag. 6.5 is even easier to find and some of those are SR.

.223 with a 1:8 twist (for the 80gn bullets) would be a good choice.

I also agree about the small rifle/pistol standard. Once I find some SR brass for my .308 I'll be all set.

A CZ 527 in 223 would pretty much hit all the op's points: manual operation, SR primed, factory ammo readily available, amply accurate for 200 yard shots. While there are other choices out there--the Ruger American is cheap and pretty nice, for one--the CZ pretty much rules if you want a decent, wooden stocked rifle. I have a carbine with an 18.5 inch Carbine that weighs only about 6 and 1/2 pounds scoped, which makes for easier carrying when humping up and down mountains. The only fly in the ointment is that the 527's have been discontinued in favor of the 600 series, but I have seen a couple at gun shows.

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

32-20…:mrgreen:

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The original 300 Whisper.

Not sure a 223 will have enough "punch" left at 200 yards, but they work very nice to 125 (personal longest DRT shot with one on deer). I could make it work if I needed to, but really want something with more legs so to speak.

Smaller rifle primer are harder to find in this area. Your small rifle should be easy to trade for large rifle so I would go for the cartridge I want irrespective to primer size.

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Originally Posted by hwooldridge

32-20…:mrgreen:

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like

Another choice would be a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Creedmoor and use small primer brass. Not to hijack, but you are correct, LRP’s are definitely the scarcest.

I haven't seen any LR primers for over 2 years now. Lots of SR and SP showing up.

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Originally Posted by M-Tecs

Smaller rifle primer are harder to find in this area. Your small rifle should be easy to trade for large rifle so I would go for the cartridge I want irrespective to primer size.

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Midway does sell large rifle primers on a notify basis when they come into stock. I have only purchased small rifle primers and shotgun primers since that was what I needed. Also primers are starting to become more available these days, but the prices are still high.
A 6.5 grendel or 7.62x39 are rounds when used in an accurate rifle would do all that you need to 200 yards and a little further. The steel case 7.62x39 while it has increased in price is still the cheapest center fire out there. Latest prices delivered are 41 cents per round instead of 23 cents. But these days 10 cent primers, $40-60/ lb powder and then the cost of the bullet means reloading is not longer super cheap. If you cast you can save some money here, but the value of your time needs to be figured.

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Originally Posted by M-Tecs

Smaller rifle primer are harder to find in this area. Your small rifle should be easy to trade for large rifle so I would go for the cartridge I want irrespective to primer size.

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He is correct. Easy to trade SRP for LRP in many areas. Opens up a lot of good choices.

223 is commonly used for long range competition out to 600 yards, the Army qualifies out to 300 yards with it, and lots of people varmint shoot with it. Whatever deer or coyote it touches at 200 yards is a done deal, s long as you don’t shoot them in the rump.

A CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel would be awesome for those requirements. The downside is the horrific prices that are currently being paid for 527's on Gunbroker. I finally saw a new CZ 600 in the rack. I'm glad I already own 550s, 452s and 527's. Its real sad to see CZ go the way of American Manufacturers racing to make the crappiest, injection molded, sintered metal "guns" that people will still pay money for. I'm sure the new CZ 600's shoot ok, but the workmanship and build quality between new and old is night and day. Sad.

Found a Howa mini 6.5 Grendel in stock locally and picked it up yesterday. Looking at a CZ bottom metal conversion, and other mild upgrades to it. Thank for all the help and input. Will be sharing results and impressions as I have time to get everything all together.j

Nice choice on the 6.5G.
Got into it since I already load 7.62x39 (resize & fireform).
I have both type 1 & type 2 in AR platform & they both shoot flat & accurate.
I push them to my velocity so I don’t cast for ‘em.
XBR is the powder of choice but a lot of other choices too including projectile weight from 85g to 129g

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Originally Posted by Redleg11b

Found a Howa mini in stock locally and picked it up yesterday. Looking at a CZ bottom metal conversion, and other mild upgrades to it. Thank for all the help and input. Will be sharing results and impressions as I have time to get everything all together.

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Excellent choice! I have one about 30 years old that was rebarrelled to .257 Roberts and love it.

If you can find some 123gr. Hornady SST's, either bullets or ammo, you will have some good rounds for deer hunting. I load 90gr Speer HP and 95 vmax for my 6.5Gr. I have some AA and Starline brass for the 6.5Gr, but have formed numerous rounds from x39 brass too.

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Originally Posted by Redleg11b

Found a Howa mini in stock locally and picked it up yesterday. Looking at a CZ bottom metal conversion, and other mild upgrades to it. Thank for all the help and input. Will be sharing results and impressions as I have time to get everything all together.

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What caliber is it? If 7.62x39, then it should be a dandy with cast. I bet the RCBS 30-150-FN would work great and my mold drops 'em fat. Would be happy to share some, just let me know.