Here is how its done!
https://youtu.be/UV6np3-0tuU?si=ILXdX-ix7ae49L98
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Here is how its done!
https://youtu.be/UV6np3-0tuU?si=ILXdX-ix7ae49L98
cwlongshot,Quote:
Originally Posted by cwlongshot
An interesting and humorous post! LOL. There are NO shortcuts to sightin. Two shots really are not firearm compatible. A sightin of several 4 or 5 shot groups lets the barrel warm up and move in conjunction with a scope to get to a final ZERO.
Be well.
Adam
Covered in John Plaster's The Ultimate Sniper under "two-shot emergency zero".
It's a good trick to know - ESPECIALLY if you have a "That Guy" buddy who asks for your help and shows up at the range with a small supply of ammo and a scope of unknown adjustment increment size.[smilie=b:
I started doing that the 70's. The biggest problem for most is to have the firearm secure enough to do the scope adjustments to the bullet hole without moving the rifle. I found graduated targets with 1" squares works better plus you can find possible tracking issues in the scope.
And three different head stamps in the 20 round box of ammo……Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigslug
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I can see something like that as a final check before hunting if the rifle possibly got banged around on the trip there.
I'd do it with three shots though.
For putting on a new scope? Nah.
If ammo is that expensive to be such a concern,
somebody needs to do a little overtime, cash in Alum. cans, etc. to be able to afford more.
It would be advantageous for sighting in a gun that is painful to shoot, or to conserve ammunition that is difficult to acquire or very expensive. Otherwise….not interested
I enjoy putting rounds downrange. Shooting less does not interest to me. Even when checking zero, I fire a three shot group.
But everyone is different.
As an afterthought, it would be helpful if the scope does not track well, but I would never keep a scope like that on a hunting or SD rifle.
I agree with the method as far as saving shots to sight-in, but to step away after that 2nd shot and declare the rifle is sighted is mighty optimistic. If you don't shoot at least a 3 shot group to verify the zero, then you really don't know. And even if the rifle has proven itself very accurate in the past, things go wrong and "old reliable" can start throwing wild shots.
In these days of ammo scarcity and inflated prices it does have it’s place. At least for those a little more unprepared than most of us.
It's been a minute since my last read. . .on reflection, I think Plaster may have actually described it as a "ONE shot emergency zero", with the rifle securely benched, the first shot fired, the crosshairs adjusted to the hole, and go to work. Given the constant amount of clicking around for exact distance and wind that guys "in the trade" do for mostly cold-bore shots, with a reasonable expectation of environmental factors dispersing things, it's not as crazy as it sounds.
When I hunted with a front stuffer I'd clean after each shot when sighting in. Once zeroed, shoot a second shot to see where it goes, just in case.
Been there before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas by God
It is another one of those things that that is useful at times like those. Anything better than minute of a deer is wasted.
I've used a similar method for years...but I still shoot 3 to 5 shot groups to verify when I'm finished. I sandbag my rifle (or shotgun) on the dining room table and bore sight to the corner of a neighbors window shutter....then adjust my scope to the same point. Once that's done I take it to the range and do my final sighting. Usually, 2 shots will do it....however, once I feel that I have POA and POI the same...I take 3 to 5 shot group to verify.
Last Fall I did this with my new 12 Gauge rifled barrel for the old Mossy 500AT. I mounted just the barrel in sandbags on the dining table....when I was done...I took it to the range and was off by 1/4" at 50 yards...needless to say...I never touched the scope and just shot a group. (I was quite impressed with my self as it was a first for me...usually I'm off by 2-5" with my method) And for what it's worth...I was using Hornady American Whitetail Sabot Slugs.
redhawk
Yep get the local folks show up to my range, on my farm, to get ready for the coming deer season, ammo in a paper bag. Some cartridges are a nice green, some a lovely white, GI, commercial, all makes and obvious different weights, etc. 8 1/2x11 sheet at 50, if they can just hit the paper it is a start. Similar to the 10" paper plate business, "That is one dead deer" pronouncement. I just shake my head. Each to their own.
In a high power rifle match you get 2 sighters at the start of each stage. 200 yd offhand 200 yd sitting 300 yd prone and 600 yd slow prone. In a leg match there are no sighters.
To test a scope for tracking issues, this is valid and useful. I had the neatest most compact scope that I thought would be just the thing, except it changed zero when you adjusted the magnification. This came to light upon adjusting the hairs to the hole and having the bullet go somewhere else entirely when changing magnification. Disappointing !
Yeah, I like it when they are shooting on a rolled up sheet of foam rubber and spraying bullets all over the target, then finally get a hit in the bullseye. They declare just what you said about it being a dead deer and walk away supremely confident. I tell them that it was just a random accidental hit because they didn't make any scope adjustments from the last shot. They won't hear it. Also very few shooters are good enough to adjust a scope after just 1 shot. Unless you can shoot repeated groups of a reasonable size and point-of-impact, you need to keep your fingers off the adjustments until firing at least 3 shots. Now I realize the members of this board are typically some of the most devoted shooters around but some novices will read this and start thinking they are a sniper and that it's easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapier
What makes me smirk is most of the "one shot wonders" tend to flinch badly. Once they get close to hitting POA, they are so damn proud. "Why waste more ammunition?"
The guys from deer camp used to look at me after the shot and ask, "Did I flinch?" These guys are hacks like most hunters. They might shoot half a box of ammunition a year. Thankfully most shots are under 100 yards so not a lot of wounded deer to deal with.
One guy saw me put 5 shots into less than an inch and told me the next week he was getting a 6.5 CM after reading how accurate the round was. He had a really nice Tikka .270 and I told him was going to waste over $1000 and he would not shoot any better. Offered to let him shoot my .308 that shoots well, and he refused. Offered to shoot his Tikka to check it out and he refused. I had to twist his arm to get him to fire a three shot group.
One day (Saturday practice session) when the conditions were "just right" my match rifle chambered in .308 I shot 17 10s and Xs at 600 yds. open sights (peep sights, front and rear). My buddy asked if he could try my rifle. "Sure thing" I responded. The SOB proceeded to best me with my own rifle and ammo! (told you that the conditions were "just right").
He was with me when I bought the rifle from my Uncle, who built it: so he knew what I paid for it. He offered me 5 time what I had into it (including dies, bullets, etc.).
I told him that this was the day that two fools met: Him for offering that much and me for refusing. I just could not bring myself to sell "Butch" (that was my Uncle's nickname. They all had nicknames). I still have that rifle, although it currently is in possession of my son, a Marine Corp. veteran. At 67, I'm fairly certain that I can no longer shoot at that level...the eyes have gone south.
Back to the point of the OP: for deer hunting, when shooting from a cold barrel the first shot on zero is correct. The barrel is cold, as when hunting. When load testing for my match rifles (yes, there used to be plural), I'd put a minimum of five shots into the berm to: if freshly cleaned, "condition the bore" and to heat it up to what might be considered match temperatures.
I found it interesting how at a match, some shooters would clean their barrels between rounds (200, 300 and 600 yards). Others would not clean them until the end of the day. Others would not clean them until the end of the two day match. I never kept track of who shot the higher scores, only noting that those that cleaned after every round shot lower scores. Guess which route I took!
I don't have the talent to do the two shot zero, but I do verify my hunting rifles with two shot groups. Every gun I own is way more accurate than I am and a five shot group is probably going to filled with flyers. I can usually manage to put two rounds point of aim though.
Peice of cake if you have an ATN Day/Night scope.
very help full when poa is way off the mark gets you real close, then fine tune
After bore sighting, I fired two shots to see where it was hitting. Then I moved the crosshairs from the bullseye to those two holes.
Then fired four more.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0c7eead846.jpg
The 6x Redfield has found a home.
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CW's vid is the way I do it, even for newly mounted scope. Then shoot a group to make sure. Then play with the reticle to make sure it returns to where you set it! Yes, I use a front stand and rear bag for zeroing. Looking down the open bore you shouldn't be that far off anyway. Usually a couple clicks horiz and a few more vert. Watched my GK try zero his AR15, buddy says 'go left' and he cranks a turn on the dial. 2 boxes of ammo and still not right.
I don't have enough popcorn .
Let me get this straight.
But first…I do not believe in one shot groups…like some folks…but we will use one shot to KISS.
You fire a shot at 100 yards. It prints 3” low and 2” left.
I am to believe it is easier to make sure the rifle does not move while cranking the scope knobs around.
The scope has 1/4 MOA adjustments. Seems a lot easier, and faster, to dial in 12 clicks up and 8 clicks right. What am I missing?
Nothing, but the math is too much for some people.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
works better when poa is off 18" or some other crazy distance. Small moves no so much
In 60 years of punching paper I have never had POI 18” from POA. I don’t even own paper that large. LOL But I see your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlezx