Paper patched bullet for 22 Savage Hi-Power

Hi all,
Recently purchased a Savage model 99, 22 Hi-Power.
Was able to obtain ammunition;shooting it is a real delight, cartridge is based on the 30-30 necked down to .228'', yeah I know, real oddball. Ballistics are similar to .223. All components are available but was thinking a mild load would extend case life as apparently it's a real pain to fire-form, trim, and resize, starting with 25-35 brass, worse with 30-30.
Any suggestions would be welcome regarding cast bullet type suitable for plinking, paper punching and/or small game hunting. Currently Hornady offers a 70gr jacketed.
Also, saw a reference online to a method of ''upsetting'' .224'' bullets to .227 or .228'' diameter. From my research, found out some shooters get good results with the more commonly available .224'' dia., others get abysmal or inconsistent accuaracy with the undersized bullets.
Thanks

I haven't patched less than 30 cal.
I think a bullet holder to hold the nose would make it somewhat easier.
Iv'e thought of buying a a savage hipower in that calibre to as it wasn't used for a loooonnggg time.

You will have to find you bore diameter with might be 224 anyway.
2x wraps of thin paper would do it.
The bullet length is what you need and not the weight.
Something with lube grooves and a flat point.
For best results the patch should not extend into the case and snug up into the lands.
It depends on your freebore diameter and such as well but if you can fit a bullet into a fired unsized case and chamber it you have reached the bestest easiest and most case life situation as you are not working your brass.
Read the stickies at the top of the page and also the one on paper in the black powder section.

I'm sure someone with a magnified glass and nimble fingers has played with small calibres.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barrabruce

I haven't patched less than 30 cal.
I think a bullet holder to hold the nose would make it somewhat easier.
Iv'e thought of buying a a savage hipower in that calibre to as it wasn't used for a loooonnggg time.

You will have to find you bore diameter with might be 224 anyway.
2x wraps of thin paper would do it.
The bullet length is what you need and not the weight.
Something with lube grooves and a flat point.
For best results the patch should not extend into the case and snug up into the lands.
It depends on your freebore diameter and such as well but if you can fit a bullet into a fired unsized case and chamber it you have reached the bestest easiest and most case life situation as you are not working your brass.
Read the stickies at the top of the page and also the one on paper in the black powder section.

I'm sure someone with a magnified glass and nimble fingers has played with small calibres.

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I didn't think about the actual task of trying to wrap a lead grain of rice with paper !
I'll try the spent brass and bullet combo to get a rough idea of the overall length, throating and whatnot. There must be a lot of variation in the bores, some have reported good results with .224'' bullets; others, not so much..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 148HBWC

I'll try the spent brass and bullet combo to get a rough idea of the overall length, throating and whatnot. There must be a lot of variation in the bores, some have reported good results with .224'' bullets; others, not so much..

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You could try asking for samples on The Boolit Exchange forum (next to Swappin & Sellin). You'll be offered a little of this, a little of that, and something might just work, right out of the box. Here's a recent thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...avy-22-bullets

The hardest thing might be finding a .228" sizer. (For after you wrap the bullet.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 148HBWC

I didn't think about the actual task of trying to wrap a lead grain of rice with paper !

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Just do it. :)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/24...e-228-diameter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 148HBWC

Hi all,
All components are available but was thinking a mild load would extend case life as apparently it's a real pain to fire-form, trim, and resize, starting with 25-35 brass, worse with 30-30.

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I wouldn't discourage you from enjoying the pleasure of shooting mild loads, but don't worry about the brass forming part. Making a 25/35 into a 22 Hi-Power is just a single easy sizing operation (single pass through the 25/35 fl sizer). And now that Hornady is producing the 25/35 brass -- well life is good for somebody wanting to keep a Hi-Power shooting. You are correct that forming from 30/30 is a bit tougher, and most (or at least some) rifles will require a bit of neck turning because of the increased neck thickness produced in necking down from .30 cal. I have done some of these and you want to take the neck down to 7mm, then down to 25 (I go ahead and use a 25/35 die because I have it but before that I used a 250 Savage to take the neck down to 25) and then the Full-length size in the Hi-Power die. This is a little thick in the neck now for my rifle, at least, so they would get a little neck turning to finish up, and check to see if trimming is needed.

I confess that I just did a few from 30/30 to see how hard it would be and decided the new Hornady 25/35 brass made it so easy I wouldn't bother with the 30/30 process (I dislike neck-turning even a little more than I dislike trimming/champfering). Using once-fired 30/30 brass would be much cheaper however if that is a big concern.

I like my 22 High Powers quite a bit. The Hornady bullet is at the ragged edge of being stabilized due to its length, some rifles I've had will only shoot it well at max loads. With any lighter loads its not uncommon to get oblong bullet holes in the target at 200 yards. My favorite bullet is the .224" 60gr Hornady softpoint bumped up to .228". Bump dies aren't real tricky to make. Picture a Lee push through sizer with a lyman style nose punch on the top you can tap to get the bullet out.
I use 30-30 for forming as the base diameter is larger than 25-35 which helps considerably with case life. Just start by neck sizing the brass in a 30-30 die to round out the case mouth, apply some Imperial sizing wax and go slow in the HP sizing die. I mangle about 2 in a hundred, could probably make that 0 if I used a 25-35 sizing die as an intermediate.
Fun cartridge with an unfortunate rap.

Eric

P.S.

CBE makes an appropriate mold in both gas check and plainbase versions.

Have a 1899 t/d currently barreled in 30-30. Although I do have the 22 HP barrel for change out. I have not tried to PP patch its cast. Strictly a jacket bullet shooter my 1899 is {we'll currently shot that is.}
I do wish you much luck in your P/P endeavor as I'm curious in the results you'll see.

As far as brass? its a known Grumpa a Vendor on this site swagges and sells about the best 22 HP brass you'll find. And his are reasonably priced also..

Selier & Beliot makes 22 HP ammo 5.6x52

The only 224 bullet that shoots well is the 70 gr speer semi-point.

My solid frame will drop 5 in 1" all day long.

Use 22 HP dies w/o expanding nipple.

There is a guy who modifies Leupold top mounts to use tang sight holes and bbl dovetail to avoid drilling your gun.

I use 4198 in mine.

If I ever found an EG highpower, It would get an extra bbl chambered in 22HP improved.

Mine with "no holes" mount.

Attachment 205950

I have a CZ combo in 5.6x52 which is 22 Hi Power. Except the chamber is tighter. 30-30 brass is too big right in front of the rim. 25-35 work better. I found that .224 Hornady 60 grains shot better then factory S&B ammo. In my case about 1 1/4 at 100 yards. "Beagleing" a 225415 mold gave me groups under 5/8 inch at 50 yards with 6.5 grains Unique. Perfect small game load.

Dave What is the twist rate in your CZ ?

My understanding is that the Savage HP had a very slow twist . That is why longer bullets do not shoot well.

My 250-3000 has the slow twist and does not shoot anything over 87 gr. very well.
I find it best to avoid boat tail bullets as they increase the length.

There is a paper thin enough to patch a .224 boolit that might fit a fired neck without sizing either boolit or neck and that is baking paper (or vellum). Tough stuff. It measures 0.05mm/.002" so a double wrap would increase the diameter to .232 which is fine if not a little small. A thicker paper or three wraps would bring the diameter up to seat firmly in an unsized neck. Seat just deep enough so that the boolit touches the leade without the base protruding into the case.

Another option is to make bullets using spent 22lr cases. I have done this but it is a bit of a mission. I soldered into the heated case then swage them down - the excess solder extruded out a bleed hole in the nose of the die. I never did try them (only made two).

You might even find someone to make you a push through sizer. I would offer but I know it takes me forever to get round to doing things.

I have patched a few boolits for my hornet.

https://i.postimg.cc/dtX4tfdW/MVC-047F.jpg

The paper was a thick tracing paper and no sizing was done.

https://i.postimg.cc/Prc8wsSw/MVC-050F.jpg

I can't tell you the accuracy but they worked fine into a 'test tube'. These were .224 cast, wrapped with thick paper fired in a .223 grooved bore.

So I would expect a .224 boolit patched with ordinary paper to work unsized.

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Originally Posted by charles1990

...

The only 224 bullet that shoots well is the 70 gr speer semi-point.

...

Attachment 205950

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My hornet has a large chamber, the result of reaming out rust damage I think. To avoid sizing the large fired neck, I use a paper cup arrangement for seating bullets. I then 'glue' the seated bullets in with my melted 'waxy-lube'. I don't own a sizer die set for my hornet. The same trick works in one of my Lee Enfields. A little bit of effort but cases have an indefinite life.

https://i.postimg.cc/DyH2JcPw/MVC-128F.jpg

Legend has it that only girls were dextrous enough to patch .22 bullets in the days when they were loaded in factory ammunition in the late 1800s.

I know I sure ain't.

For a .228-groove Stevens single-shot I lapped out a Lee Bator mould. Aluminum laps quickly.

You don'[t need to be a little girl to patch small caliber bullets.
1. Lay the paper (wet) down on the patching block with about 1/4 of it hanging over the side.
2. Lay the bullet on the paper where you want the patch to cover it.
3. Take a pair of angled forceps (tweezrs) and pick up the hanging end of the paper and place it over the bullet.
4. Now place the tip of your finger on the paper over the bullet and roll the bullet forward. The paper will wrap around the bullet.
5. Gently twist your tail while pushing the bullet into the tail.


I was an electron microscopist. I used to routinely handle things that were smaller than one millimeter square, and thinner than most light waves. I did it with tools in my hands. Brodie

I found that wrapping .224 was no more difficult than wrapping larger cal. bullets..

I found that casting .224 was just tad more difficult .... [smilie=1:

Maybe it's just my mold or maybe it's me but I can't cast them worth a ****. [smilie=b:

Well, I did cast some and I still have them but they are all defective in some way and they just don't want to fall out the mold halves.

I recently bought myself a nice little 99 Savage take down in .22 High Power since I still had the dies and some brass and 2 boxes of Hornady 70 grain .228" bullets left on my reloading bench from the last one of these guns that I had quite a few years ago. When the 2 boxes of Hornady jacketed bullets run out I'll buy a .230" 70 grain mould from NOE. With my big sausage fingers I wouldn't even think about paper-patching .22 bullets!

https://i.imgur.com/rz2plS1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/p7SyVN5.jpg

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Originally Posted by 303Guy

I found that casting .224 was just tad more difficult .... [smilie=1:

Maybe it's just my mold or maybe it's me but I can't cast them worth a ****. [smilie=b:

Well, I did cast some and I still have them but they are all defective in some way and they just don't want to fall out the mold halves.

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303 Guy,
I have found that you have to use a higher mould temp. when casting small bullets. Increase you pot temp and try for three drops per minute. Yoou may have to run the post up to 750 F' to get good fill out. Brodie

I too had trouble casting such tiny bullets. Success finally came when I took a tip from Charlie Dell, which was to flood hot lead over the cutoff plate after filling the cavity, to keep IT hot.

Yeah Charlie it seems that keeping the temperature up when casting small bullets (22, 25, etc) is the key. That relatively large mould block and cut off plate seem to suck the heat out of the lead and make good fill out hard to get. Hence flooding the cut off plate and using a higher temp. lead, and higher block temp seem to be the key to success. Brodie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 303Guy

There is a paper thin enough to patch a .224 boolit that might fit a fired neck without sizing either boolit or neck and that is baking paper (or vellum). Tough stuff. It measures 0.05mm/.002" so a double wrap would increase the diameter to .232 which is fine if not a little small. A thicker paper or three wraps would bring the diameter up to seat firmly in an unsized neck. Seat just deep enough so that the boolit touches the leade without the base protruding into the case.

Another option is to make bullets using spent 22lr cases. I have done this but it is a bit of a mission. I soldered into the heated case then swage them down - the excess solder extruded out a bleed hole in the nose of the die. I never did try them (only made two).

You might even find someone to make you a push through sizer. I would offer but I know it takes me forever to get round to doing things.

I have patched a few boolits for my hornet.

https://i.postimg.cc/dtX4tfdW/MVC-047F.jpg

The paper was a thick tracing paper and no sizing was done.

https://i.postimg.cc/Prc8wsSw/MVC-050F.jpg

I can't tell you the accuracy but they worked fine into a 'test tube'. These were .224 cast, wrapped with thick paper fired in a .223 grooved bore.

So I would expect a .224 boolit patched with ordinary paper to work unsized.

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This is awesome! Closest I got to this was/is, i used a bath towel cross patch to shoot .430 208gr WC's out of my .45 T/C Hawken. I might end up with a combo gun with a .22 Hi-power chamber. Been searching about it. Todd/3leg

Seems a bit wasteful using 25-35 brass so to make 22 HP. But I can offer a Tip for the process (pre-fired 25-35 to 22HP). Consider Annealing the 25-35 before it resizing.

When it comes to making 25/35 from 30/30, I was advised to use a Lee 32-40 FL die (currently in stock at Titan) as a body die to more easily gain the long taper. I could imagine that with the expander removed it would be preferable to begin with, then a 25/35 die and so forth for reforming to .22 High Power.

Three44s

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Originally Posted by uscra112

Legend has it that only girls were dextrous enough to patch .22 bullets in the days when they were loaded in factory ammunition in the late 1800s.

I know I sure ain't.

For a .228-groove Stevens single-shot I lapped out a Lee Bator mould. Aluminum laps quickly.

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That's because the guys were too busy scratching their _____...well, you know.

Hey if a guy can learn to put in contact l

S&B brass is very nice brass and loaded ammo is nearly the cost of brass. Buffalo Arms has a selection of 228 bullets, I keep a stock of 55gr on hand for coyoote hunting with my BRNO combo gun in 12ga/5.6x52R(22 HP)

Attachment 301542

I save my paper patching for stuff like my 9.3x72R that has a reallly odd barrel .364 groove diameter and .346 bore, tall skinny lands