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I saw a good deal on a 1885 with a 24-30" bbl in 38/55. Reading up on this I can get a 250gr boolit to ~1500-1700 without too much trouble. Are you guys using the Starline 2.125" brass with the thin necks? You guys like the 38/55? How about lugging one around on an elk hunt (I have other rifles, but everyone I have must pass this test). What range can I expect to topple a bowling pin at regularly without crazy troubles (I can topple them routinely at ~150yds with my .45 Colt 1885)
I used to have one of those. Great rifles, wish I still had it. Use the 2.125" brass, it is chambered to SAAMI specs, and that's what fits. Yes, you can hit 1700 fps easily with smokeless powder. In fact, 2100fps with RE7 isn't a stretch for that action - it's plenty strong. It would certainly flatten an elk at 150 yds or under. As for bowling pins, I guess that depends on your eyesight...
-Nobade
I have a Browning Traditional Hunter in .38/55. It is a fantastic shooter with the RCBS 250 GC bullet and
a max load of Rel 7.
My rifle has a 28 " barrel, and is a bit long for the woods. I would prefer a 26" barrel for smokeless.
It is a very accurate rifle. Rel 7 is the powder.
The current SAAMI standard says the brass is 2.085.
The long brass was probably the standard when it was a Ballard single shot round.
I was going to post a link to the drawing, but their web site doesn't seem to be functioning now. The book of prints I have shows the long case, and it's from 1984. Of course this doesn't matter anyhow, just use whatever fits. The Traditional Hunter model I owned had the long chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by EDG
AFAIK, Winchester started making the short case when they came out with the commemorative models, since they could make them from the same draw they made 30-30 from. But the rifles were still chambered for the long case. This is where a lot of the frustration comes for owners of 38-55 rifles, and why it is so wonderful that Starline started making correct cartridge cases.
-Nobade
My 1885 in .38-55 is the 22" barrel version. I use the long starline brass with either the 250 grain lee or the 378-312 bps by rcbs. I shoot bp over a little kick of imr 4759 exclusively out of it these days. I have loaded smokeless for it and it shoots very accurately with it too, I just like it as my mini bpcr rifle that makes an awesome woods hunting combo. It will shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 with the marbles peep sight that came on it. Target shooting accuracy is good for alot more than 100 yards, but I would want a scope to hunt at distance. I love mine and it a keeper for sure.
I have the longer barreled version and love it. I shoot Cowboy Action long range side matches and found my Sharps to be too heavy for me to shoot offhand in the matches that called for "standing on your hind legs." It has turned into my favorite rifle. Have only shot cast in it at fairly moderate velocities. It really likes the 330 grain Lyman cast bullets, as cast and Winchester brass. I have shot it in competition out to 680 yards, but will normally go with 45-70 beyond 300, not because it won't hit that far, but because the lighter bullets do not always give a good splash on the steel targets and do not give a good "ring" on some.
I would be confidant that I could hit more bowling pins than I would miss at 300 yards.
It should be very effective on elk, using the right bullet of course. You obviously are not a first time elk hunter, so would be aware of range limitations based on how it was loaded.
Good luck,
Jackpine
Jackpine, what sight are you using? This one had a marbles tang, but I think that was original. It had a hooded post front that was prob aftermarket, and someone took off the rear sight (which i like for close or fast shots) Might put a full buckhorn on the rear and leave the tang sight on. If it's still there and if I can ditch another rifle for it.
I have a Soule rear sight which Browning supplied on their BPCR model 1885, which was discontinued about ten years ago. I bought it used. I have a Lyman 17a on the front and use Lee Shaver inserts, which are much finer than the Lyman. I also have two other Brownings in 45-70 and four lever guns, so I have a varied assortment of sights on them. I think the best long range sight for the money is the Pedersoli Universal Long range vernier, which Brownells sells for about $160. You can spend three or four times as much and gain very little.
This info may not help you much, as mine are used strictly for competition. If I were going to use it for hunting, I would probably stick with the Marble that you have on it and put a post insert in the front. (I actually have these on one of my lever guns that I shoot out to 250 yards. The only disadvantage of the Marble, again IMHO, is that it runs out of elevation fairly quickly and repeating is not quite as precise and not as fast as the verniers. I have it marked with a dot of finger nail polish, so when I rotate it, I know where 6 oclock is orientated and have to run it down to the bottom and then come up a certain number of rotations to reset. Try totally removing the insert on the Marble or replacing it with an insert with a large aperture and eyepiece that has an OD of no more than 1/4 inch. With a little practice I bet you will find you can get on target as fast as you can with open sights and it will be more precise on longer range and slower, rested shooting. Even with the large opening, the eye will naturally center the front sight and with a small OD aperture, you will have very little field of view blocked.
Probably more than you really wanted to know, and keep in my that my opinion and a couple bucks will buy you a cup of coffee in a cheap restraint! Good luck,
Jackpine
I bought one of the Traditional Hunters not long after they came out, more than fifteen years ago. Using only cast bullets, it's been a very accurate rifle. While I hunt elk regularly, I seldom encounter them within .38-55 range.
Cole, not only are their two lengths of brass to select from but the early single shots tend to have a bore that favors .376 to 377 size bullets where the "later" lever rifles in .38-55 need to use the shorter brass for sure as well as using .379 to .381 size bullets. Such is the mystery of this round. Why it changed is a story for the campfire I'm sure. But in the meantime we lovers of this round are left with the need to learn about what our rifles need by either research or direct measurements with chamber casting and bore slugging.
Chances are good that this 1885 replica will require the smaller size of bullet. It seems like most of the old single shots in .38-55 are that way from my own experience as well as reading of others.
The length of the brass is up for conjecture. My recently purchased Uberti 1885 needs the shorter brass as learned during bullet seating testing by pushing a loosely seated bullet in a case into the chamber and then pushing it out lightly from the front. The bullet seated against the lands with the cannelure groove just barely ahead of the case mouth. So by the time I seat the bullet in the shorter style brass with the cannelure half buried it was just right. So none of the longer style brass for me unless I were to load up fully contained "wadcutters" :D
I stick with this caliber as I enjoy the lighter recoil that allows me to shoot effectively out at distant targets with no pain in the shoulder. I found that even with a big heavy Sharps that most of the loads used by the owners would leave me unable to shoot effectively after 10 to a dozen rounds. With the .38-55 I can shoot happily all day and a few dozen leaves me with no concern at all.
There's always a sour apple and that leaves me. I had one of the Winchester versions which is also made by Miroku and had the 28 in barrel. I say had because it was the most frustrating 38-55 I've ever had and I've had a bunch....Still have three, a Uberti with ST, a Roller Sporter #1 that has been relined, and a Marlin Cowboy. The Cowboy is scary accurate!
Anyway, I tried seven or eight different bullets from hard to soft and diameters covering the spectrum of groove size (.3765) =to or +.002. All shot from starline 2.125 cases and LR primers with velocities never exceeding 1350 fps. Powders included 5744, 4895, Rel7, and Swiss 1.5 BP. Pattern was the rule! I tried resting the barrel and even removing the forend. The crown seemed okay and that rifle remains an enigma to this day. Traded it for the Uberti deluxe with ST and it shoots lights out with a custom .380 bullet cast in an Accurate Mold. YMMV greatly.
The rifle is from a guy who previously shot cowboy and was getting out of it. The Marbles sight told me that he didn't shoot it too far, and I was a little miffed that the rear sight wasn't there, but I can toss a buckhorn and forget. I haven't had a straight wall for long range other than the 1885 .45 Colt, so I'm excited- if I get the gun. It sounds like Miroku puts their barrels .376-.378".
A vernier would be really neat.
While I do not dispute what BCRIDERs experience has been, I have found mostly the opposite of single shots vs lever guns. Off the top of my head, I can remember slugging barrels of six single shots and four levers and the singles ran larger end and the levers ran on the higher. I was told by a gunsmith who has done a lot of custom lever work that since the 375 Winchester came out, there is a much bigger supply of jacked bullets available and that is why most rebarrels are done with .375 bores. May or may not be fact, but that was his story!
The bottom line is, as has been stated, there is a lot of inconsistency with 38-55s and one of the first thing I do when I acquire on, or any thing I am going to shoot cast bullets in for that matter, is slug the barrels. That does not necessarily solve all the problems, but certainly helps to get me steered in the right starting direction.
If only solving all of lifes problems were this much fun!!
Jackpine
Jackpine, on any newer guns I don't doubt that this would be the case. Or on re-barrels of older lever rifles that would be a great way to go just for the bullet reason.
If nothing else your experience just underscores the importance of assuming nothing and slugging the bore along with checking the chamber to be sure of what each of us has sitting on the table.
Case in point. My 1869 dated rolling block action is mated up with a newer Shiloh Sharps barrel. The barrel was likely chambered by the gunsmith that built the rifle up. The bore is such that it needs a .376 to .377 bullet. But the chamber is cut such that it really needs the .380 to .381 size bullet in the neck of the cases to fit the chamber correctly. So I've got an oversize chamber with the smaller bore.
I got around this by buying some .375Win brass with the thicker walls. So now my loads fit the chamber neatly enough to manage OK with the smaller size of bullet. I just don't bother seating them that deep due to the shorter case. On a single shot this isn't an issue of course since I only crimp just enough to mostly remove the flare such that I get a nice fit. Whatever is left of the flare just centers the brass in the chamber. I also only size just enough to get the right neck tension.
A lot of putzing around to reach the end. But when I ended up with this sort of mixed bag of "features" I had to do something to make it all work. Again it simply shows that when we're working with .38-55 we can't assume much of anything without a risk.
I have a Browning Traditional Hunter in 30-30 and a Winchester in 38/55.
I use the long Starline brass in the 38-55 and I cannot use a bullet larger than .379 without neck turning the brass. Accuracy with Unique and 5744 is about 2 to 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards with a scope, not good enough to my liking. It has been back burner for a while.
BC,
Using the 375 brass to deal with that situation is ingenious. My hat is off to you.
Jackpine
I have Lyman reloading books from the present to before WW 2.There was no short brass listed until Lyman #49.I don't have #48 so I don't know what is in it.
Winchester changed the SAAMI specs in the 90's some time to a more 375 Winchester like cartridge.Shorter, brass smaller bore and groove dimensions.Marlin ,when they made their Cowboy lever gun used the original dimensions since 38/55 was and is a Marlin Ballard cartridge.In the 1885 Winchester catalog it is referred to as 38/55 Ballard.In the 1899 catalog It is just 38/55.Winchester was trying to steal it even back then.
My Marlin CB will shoot 3-4 inches at 300 yards. with Williams peep sights and IMR 4759 and Hunter's Supply .381 diameter bullets.The Marlin does pretty good with 375296 too.My Uberti is just as good with the same load or not quite as good with 5744.So far the Uberti hasn't done what I want with Swiss 2F but it is close.The Lyman 380681 mold I have isn't quite large enough in diameter cast from 20/1.I am going to get something from Accurate molds soon when it cool's off enough to cast.Next month maybe.
Nearly ten years have passed since all y'all posted here. A fascinating thread to someone who has just bought their first 1885 Highwall, a Uberti Sporter in 38-55, 30in barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by dgslyr
Be great to read some updates as to what you've done, where you got to since. Accomplishments, puzzles, failures triumphs and wins.
Cheers from NZ.
Winchester did indeed screw this up, and did so when they came out with the .375 Win. which was a shorter case. So they just arbitrarily decided to make all their .375 W and .38-55 Ballard cartridges to the shorter length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobade
I'm not sure the Brownings in .38-55 have a short chamber, and may still be the original length .38-55 chamber. I'd surely check before buying much brass or making up cartridges.
As for using the .38-55 for an elk hunt, it wouldn't be my first choice. I think it can take elk, and pushing it faster it is better suited, but it may still take multiple hits to drop an elk. And being a single shot rifle you better be pretty fast at reloading to ensure an ethical kill.
A pound-cast of your chamber and throat will tell you what you need for both brass length and bullet diameter.
A marked cleaning rod and a tight patch will tell you your rate of twist and what bullet weight you can get away with.
It's a great round that gives more mass than a .30-30 and more (or equivalent) sectional density than the lighter .458's and is pleasant in the recoil department. Guys use the faster twist models with heavier spitzers for competition at distance, but that's a matter of being on a known-distance range. For hunting, I'd regard it as the rainbow trajectory round of the 1800's that it is and treat it as a 150-200 yard timber gun.
It should do the job on elk, but I've come to the conclusion that if the hunt is going to be distant, expensive and/or difficult, the gun will be stainless, synthetic, and with an effective point-blank trajectory of about 300 yards. If I'm shooting them out of my backyard petunia patch with a resident tag, that's another matter.
Jhon.... I'm in the same boat. I've been a visitor to the site for quite some time but just recently joined. The amount of information here and where it is withering.
We shoot a short range single shot (BPRC, Buffalo gun, etc.) to 300 yards and earlier this year I started moving from the 45/70 to the 38/55. I got a Taylor/Uberti High Wall.
The first outing was a complete disaster and at 50 yards the bullets tumbled in sideways. So my guidance is first understand your groove/bore diameters (in my case is 0.379/0.373 and twist rate (in my case 1:18). This alone will start to put you on the path on the type/weight of bullets and appropriate muzzle velocities.
As a note, be careful there's a lot of confusion and misinformation online and even in the reloading books concerning the 38/55