Found a few interesting videos on youtube and had to give it a try. Here is a picture after 20 minutes.
http://image.ibb.co/hpOM6m/plating.jpg
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Found a few interesting videos on youtube and had to give it a try. Here is a picture after 20 minutes.
http://image.ibb.co/hpOM6m/plating.jpg
upload my photos
How do they shoot? Years ago (actually three different experimental periods over 30 years) I attempted to Copper Plate. Flaking was one problem I encountered, spotty locations where it did not plate was another, and yet another was a coating that was not uniform (call it spongy as a descriptor). Looking forward to hearing reports on you progress, and how well they shoot.
I see you are plating for rifle. How did you achieve the Boat Tail/Bevel on the rifle bullets in your picture?
I don't know how they shoot. This is my first attempt to the plating process. 15 trial bullets in the tub right now. Hopefully the tumbling will give an even and "stuck" coating. If they shoot better than a 5 inch group at 50 yards, it'll be a progress compared to the ESPC coating.
It is a NOE mold that has a boat tail.
One hour in... Looking good.
http://image.ibb.co/kepiK6/plating1hr.jpg
Smash test will follow when they are done.
Which NOE Mold are you using? What is your alloy? A softer lead when copper plated will still have velocity limits similar to the cast boolit since there is no Jacket of 0.015 to 0.030 thickness to take the sheer twisting when driven across the Rifling.
Concerning your efforts with ESPC coating: What powder Coat were you using? What were Dimensions of your cast Boolit?
HTC310-174. WW. Previously casted/PC coated recovered bullets look OK. Shot out of a 300 BLK at 1050 fps.
Using Eastwood powders. I had the same results with HF red too. I tried them with sized and coated and then shot ~.311" as well as sizing after coating to .309". Same shotgun pattern of a group.
Measured the thickness of a bullet after 2 1/2 hours of plating. They came in .001" over the sized bullet size, so I am currently at .0005 thickness of copper plating. Thought maybe there was an issue so I tossed in another uncoated bullet and after 10 minutes, it showed a slight coating. This is going to be a long process to get a good .0015" to .002" coating on them like I was planning.
Four hours in a .0015" (total) coating on them. Found one with a blem and decided to pull it and tumble it to see if I can get a shine on it.
http://image.ibb.co/nPHO2R/plated4hr.jpg
Didn't really shine up like I thought it would, but not horrible. My sizing die is dirty so it made it look worse after sizing.
http://image.ibb.co/bCYGp6/platedpolished.jpg
http://image.ibb.co/dET5hR/platedsized.jpg
Tried to do a smash test with a hammer, but that failed. I couldn't hold on to it properly. I'll use the vise on the next one.
Driving band looks shiny. That should be a Good Sign as the Copper is being smoothed out and not adversely affected by sizing down.
Are you electro-plating?
Everything was looking OK until I tumbled them in the corncob media. Lost a little coating. Better the tumbler than the barrel.
I am beginning to think my cleaning process might be the biggest part to blame. I only swirled the bullets in acetone for a few seconds before dumping them in the plating liquid. I'll have to experiment more later.
These will be shot though.
Straight from the tumbler.
http://preview.ibb.co/npuO2R/IMG_20180112_233641.jpg
Sized.
http://preview.ibb.co/jR9Z96/IMG_20180112_234257.jpg
Loaded for tomorrow.
http://preview.ibb.co/d3fKbm/IMG_20180112_235152.jpg
upload photos internet
Still shot like buckshot. :-(
Have you slugged and measured your barrel diameter?
If you are interested; I'll send you 40 RCBS 165Sil .308 boolits HF Red Powder Coated with Gas Checks to see if another boolit may do better for you. I can do .308, .309, .310, and .311 dimensions so you can see if there is one size that may do better.
I'd be interested in trying some of your HTC310-174's if interested. I'd rather do the Powder Coat myself so "As Cast" would be an interesting SWAP.
Let me know via Private Message if you might be interested.
That sounds like a good offer. I haven't slugged the barrel yet, but do have the material in my basket on midway. Will place the order on Monday. I'll PM you.
Does the rifle shoot good groups with factory ammo or reloaded with jacketed bullets?
Yes, very good groups for having a 10.5" barrel and with everything from 125 TNTs to 220 SMKs.
Tri sodium phosphate is the best cleaner I have found. As you plate copper should be shiny and smooth.. Looks like you may be over tumbling and under powered amps..d
ive plated a few hundred million bullets, slightly different process, but to get good adhesion you have to start with very clean bullets. secondly your chemistry has to be correct, as copper does not like to stick to lead of its own free will. trying to plate too few bullets in your tank will also have adverse affects.
lefty o, good to hear from someone that has done it and in such a magnitude. Can you share your prepping process and chemistry?
I am currently trying what I found on youtube with ZAP tree root killer and some copper tubing. I was initially only tumbling a few bullets to see how things would go.
Hey, getting somewhere. Cleaned with Muriatic Acid and rinsed with distilled water. My only screw up is I didn't clean the basket that I used to dump the bullets out of the acid into. I am guessing that is the reason for the black spots. Will get that fixed with the next go around.
I also added some Sulfuric Acid to my bath.
This is from only 3 1/2 hours and I already have a .003" coating on it!!! .0015" per side. .0015" overall is what I ended up with on the last run after 7 or 8 hours in the solution. Definitely an improvement.
http://image.ibb.co/dwqZCR/plated5.jpg
If you don't want to scroll up and look, this is what they looked like after 4 hours in the previous test.
http://image.ibb.co/nPHO2R/plated4hr.jpg
our chemistry was a cyanide bath, of course mostly water but also potassium hydroxide, potassium cyanide, and a bit of copper cyanide. i dont know what your using, but to me your results appearance looks like your tanks are cold. we plated at 140deg, and anything under 120 really plated ugly.
Yep, room temp/cold water. Next step is to get heat to it.
Using copper sulfate, ZEP Root Killer and for the sulfuric acid I added some Clean Shot Drain Opener. Both, along with the Muriatic Acid, purchased at Lowes.
Thanks for the response, lefty o.
Wet tumbled for a couple of hours. Sized to .309" on the left side, un-sized on the right, Sierra 175 SMK in the middle for comparison.
http://preview.ibb.co/hiobRm/IMG_20180115_003631.jpg
If there is a really dark spot, I can shave the plating off with my finger nail. Everything else is impossible.
When you've worked out the fine details about temp. and such...How long would you guess it'd take to do say 1,000 casts?
All in one batch or smaller batches?
I guess the next move is to see whether they get downrange with all their Cu intact or whether or not some gets left behind in the barrel.
X-Treme gives a statement about their plating coming off with extreme speeds and suggest one of their thicker plated casts, I think they refer to it as double struck.
This is a pretty interesting thread Forrest.
Yea, lead doesn't accept/release electrons readily so I've heard many use a zinc wash to aid in plating.Quote:
copper does not like to stick to lead of its own free will
I have a batch going with a hot bath tonight. Had a minor issue because a part that connects the rotisserie motor to the shaft that connects to the bowl, was printed out of PLA filament. Well, it goes soft around 55-60° C. It went soft on me and failed. Ran out to the freezing garage and fired up my ABS printer and made a new piece in 30 minutes.
I also learned that cleaning them longer in the Muriatic Acid is not a good thing. They turn black and it leaves a powdery type substance on the bullet. Even after trying to wipe it off, it doesn't allow the copper to adhere very well. I had some bullets that were soaked for 30 minutes or so in the acid that after being placed in the bath for two hours, barely had a coat on them. Cast some new bullets, cleaned with the acid for 5 minutes, tossed in the bath and had a coat on them in less than 5 minutes. I am still getting these "liver" spots on the bullets though.
http://image.ibb.co/kAKGcR/plated6.jpg
i want to upload my photo
If you compare this photo to the one a few posts up, they do look better, spot wise. This was also taken only 30 minutes into the run.
After this thread piqued my interest in copper plating, I found a few sources that say a too strong solution of copper and stagnant solution can lead to those dark burn spots.
Thanks for the post, EMR. It is possible I have too much copper sulfate in there. About all I could find when using the ZEP Root Killer is to keep adding until it won't dissolve anymore and stop there. Edit: I am also circulating the solution in the bath. Thinking about getting an aquarium pump to create bubbles for agitation as well.
I am glad to report that after an hour there has been a .003" of plating laid down. Took 3 1/2 hours to get there last time. Heat might be the key there.
try some laundry detergent to clean them. we had some wicked nasty caustic soap.
at first I thought you were just goofing off trying to plate but holy cow you are getting somewhere, sucks because now I might have to try this and I have too many other irons in the fire right now.
TSP was a no-go. At least how I tried to clean the bullet with it.
I took one bullet and marked it. Weighed it too. Hot water with TSP and swirled for a good 3 minutes. Dropped it in the bath and it had a brown spot within a minute. :-( I went ahead and let it coat for an hour with the rest of the bullets and then pulled them. After one hour, that bullet gained 1.5 grains and .003" of plating while the other bullets over the 4 hours gained .007"! Yesterdays .0035" were tough to size to .309", so I can't imagine how hard these are going to be. I threw them in the wet tumbler with SS pins and will pull them out in two hours like last night.
lefty o, do you happen to know what the voltage/amps you plated at?
The video I found on youtube that I am going off of, said he used a 3V 5A PSU. The smallest I found that I had was a 3.3V 3A wall charger. I have no idea what it was for and whether the type of metal the wires it is made out of is the right kind for this project, but I ran with it. Some other videos show PSUs with adjustable voltages/amps, being ran closer to 1V. I don't know if you can tell from my pictures, but I am just dangling the negative wire into the bath where it will make contact with the bullets as they are being rotated in the bowl. Ghetto, but I didn't want to put too much money into a project that might fail. If it wasn't for having most of the stuff I am using on hand, or being able to 3D print the parts, I could easily be in the $150+ range. Luckily, the only thing I have had to purchase is the chemicals and a roll of 1/4 copper tubing and I am still $40 into this project.
I am sure I am over powered then. Found some other videos on youtube, not dealing with bullet plating, that described using a low current as well. I'll wait and see how these bullets shoot before making the decision to step up my power supply situation.
How thick of a coating were you applying, lefty o? The way I see, and lack of better way to describe it, is I am only putting a condom on these bullets and hoping it doesn't break. I really think the better way to go, if feasible is to start with a .277" bullet and find a way to get .035" coating on it and then size it down to .309". Figuring out how to do that is going to be the problem. I guess I should ask too is how long did you leave the barrels in your bath?
This is cool. Please keep posting progress. Admire your efforts!
Here you go. Straight from the tumbler after 2 hours.
http://preview.ibb.co/dQUhZ6/plated7.jpg
LOL. Noticing anything missing? Ran these through the .309 sizing die. Boy were they tough to get through.
http://image.ibb.co/hoSx1m/plated8.jpg