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I have two molds, the Lee 160gr .312 and a nice NOE 129gr .314. I have been using them for 7.62x39mm for some time and am wondering how well they might work in .308? What size is best - I saw one gent sized his to .311, which would let me use the same sizer I use for 7.62x39mm, or do I need a .309 sizer? Favorite powder/loads?
Just kicking it around - would most likely be used in a bolt action rifle. Thoughts?
It depends on the diameter of the throat in your rifle. I have several 308 chambered rifles and .3095" seems to work very well in them. Most, if not all of them, won't take a .310" bullet.
I hope this helps,
Rick
All depends on the throat . As rick said if it's a commercial chamber 309-310, Military chamber you'd be surprised how they vary . Had some surplus bolt actions in 7.62 I used that Lee bullet unsized at 314
0.311" is my go to size for most .30 caliber rifles. I have never had to go smaller, yet.
Robert
I don't have the rifle - coming from a buddy who's going to let me use it as a test bed. I know it's accurate and has been shot extensively. Yes, he trusts me with it to test cast bullet loads in it...very trusting or complete lunatic.
I read on another forum about 10 grains of Unique? Odd load = think that would be effective for a cat sneeze with a .314 boolit at 100 yards or so?
I size to .309 for my Win. .30-30, M1A, and Rem700 .30-06 and that has that done well for me for 1,800-2,000-ish fps loads.
For .30, I've got a Iron mold 170RN and 190 Sil. SP that I cast pretty hard. Mostly WW, some shot, with a bump of 95/5 for good measure.
I run them just on the frosted side and use Lyman's Orange Magic & a Hornady GC.
Next time I sit down for loading .30 cast, I'm going to get off into Red Dot.
I've heard good things about its variation for .308 with 'the load'.
10 grains of Unique would be a pretty good place to start as would 16 grains of 2400. Don't under estimate the power and utility of these loads. If you start out trying to get jacketed velocities or anywhere near you will probably find yourself very disappointed.
Good Luck, and let us know how it works,
Rick
I'd use the Lee bullet, but, you may have to nose size it to fit in the bore. I use a .309 body size die in my .308. Measure your bore to see what you need to size to. You can go a little over and be fine depending on the condition of the throat of your rifle.
Just curious, what is the dia of the nose section of those Lee bullets?
Loads, just about anything you want, from subsonic to near jacketed velocities. The best accuracy in mine is in the 1600-2000fps range. 2400 is a good choice for medium power loads. CE Harris likes 16gn for target use and a bit more for longer ranges or hunting.
Lyman cast bullet handbook has a range of powders and loads. Almost any pistol powder can be used as a light load. I use the .30-30 data shown here:
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
I start with .310 in my .30 calibers, at least four 308 Savage 99's, a couple .300 Savage 99's, a couple .303 Savages and a couple Marlin 30-30's. Also works in my CMP M1 Garand and Sears FN Mauser 30-06. I have tried .311 in the Marlin's, but little difference from .310's, tried .309 in the others, but .310 just a little better. No issues with tight chambering, even with LC 308 brass or very old RA and other '06 military brass. All are gas checked in 1500-1800 fps range, most 1.5 MOA-2MOA except Garand - it needs a tighter stock, runs 4-5MOA with everything. I use 15-16grs 5744, 20-25grs RL7 or 15-17 grs 4227 in 308 depending on bullet, most in the 170 to 190 grain range. I would start with the Lee boolit sized down.
Right now I just have the one sizer for .311, but that could change.
No idea, don't know how to measure that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
What is nose sizing? Never heard of that.
I second the vote for .310 boolits to start. If your molds are not gas checked designs you will want to use a harder alloy, perhaps bhn 15. I shoot gas checked boolits out of my .308 with 17 grains of 2400 and they work very well. That 10 grains of Unique is a winner too and will get you around 1000 fps. Cast boolits out of rifles are very much worth the effort to dial in.
Personally, I would make some dummy cartridges, using those .311 bullets and see if they chamber. If they do, load them. I have yet to have oversized bullets create issues.
I size bullets to .3125 for my AR-10. I only use spitzer shaped bullets for 100% reliable feeding. Tapered noses aren't that big of an issue. My other 308W, is a Model 70, it also accepts .3125 sized bullets of a flat nose design.
Winelover
If you have calipers measure the bullet dia in front of the drive bands. It should be a smaller dia and might taper a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
The forward portion of the bullet will go into the rifled part of the barrel. If it is too large then you won't be able to chamber the round. If the nose section is tapered it may just mean that you have to seat the bullet deeper in the case.
Do not load up a bunch of bullets without testing them to see if they will chamber. Make up a couple of dummy rounds and see how deep you have to seat the bullets.
Plus 1 on .311
I mostly shoot them in 300 bos. I have 3 of them 4 if you count the ruger american. One of the ars and the ruger have tight neck dimentions in the chambers and have problems with even 309 bullets. All run perfect with 308s. i did a test with all 4 guns this summer and group sizes didnt change one bit going from 309 to 308 in any of them. Matter of fact other then the little 7 inch gun that ive never had a scope on the 3 others are scary accurate with cast bullets. Bullet of choice is the 130 rcbs spitzer gas check pc'ed out of about a 18bhn alloy and shake and bake smokes pc. Even if the 309 did do a bit better id got 308 because a gun that you have to fight to get a round in the chamber isnt worth spit and a 1/4 inch differnce in group size isnt even a big factor shooting deer at 300 yards with a deer rifle so why would i worry about it other then bragging factor using cast bullets.
As mentioned the nose may be too large on those bullets to to enter the .300 bore of the rifle. Sizing the drive bands will not correct that problem. Loading a dummy round, as also mentioned, to see if the bullets chamber will give the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
Cast noses can be sized in lubrasizers with H dies or with bushings. However, if you don't have those it would be easier and cheaper to just get the similar Lee C309-xxx mould.
Over the years I've found cast bullets sized .311 invariably fit the throats of factory .30 caliber rifles. Occasionally a new rifle may need the bullets sized .310 but that has proven a rare occurrence. My "go to" sizing for .30 caliber cast bullets is .311.
The Lee boolit is fat at the nose - I don't have a current cast one to show off but here is what they look like in 7.62x39mm.
Attachment 273159
The 129 gr is much sharper - the point on the bare boolit is sharp enough to prick yer finger! Old photo before I started powder coating.
Attachment 273160
As soon as I get 1) brass and 2) dies, I will load up some dummy testers.
I use the Lee 312-160-2R for my 30-40 and found they work really well sized to .310-.311 the nose of the boolet is about .306 using my calipers and just about .308 at the start of the drive bands. In my R77 .308 it works okay but the .312-155-2R works better. Just my 2 cents. Just try differing seating depths and I'm sure you will find a sweet spot. My Krag has a new Criterion barrel so it's not loosy goosy.
2400 and 4198 work well. Lyman says 9-0 to 13.0 gr of Unique are good too. I'm going to try that out without the GCs.
My 30 call’s like .311 . The noe 129 gr sp I thank is short enuf you won’t have a problem with it sticking out to far not to chamber. I never had problems of in not chambering at all even the lee .312 160 2r. I size that to .311 also shoots great
I gas check my .30 cal rifle boolits. A new Ruger American likes .310 while my warhorse Model Seven which has seen several thousand factory ball rounds needs a .311. I have yet to try powder coating in my rifles because the gas checked tumble lube boolits work so well. My 30-30 likes .310. I use NOE expander plugs to open the case mouths to accept the boolits nicely. 2400 is my go to powder for about 1675 fps.
There are always exceptions, but I use .311" for everything including 7.62x39 (Ruger BA, not SKS), .30-40 Krag (Ruger #3 and Win. 1895 reproduction), .308, and .30-06. However, I did have to neck turn brass for use in a couple of rifles; most rifles won't require neck turning. I've done some not-very-extensive 100 yard accuracy comparisons using .310" and .311" bullets. It takes a pretty accurate rilfe to see a difference, but overall, the slight advantage is with .311" bullets.
10.0 Unique will provide a bit more than a "cat sneeze" methinks.
I would go with the 0.311 sized boolit if it will chamber.
TRY IT you may well like it.
Yep! I powder coated some Accurate Molds 31- 165 D boolits today and loaded them for my 30 - 30 over 10 grains of Unique. Got 1500 fps. and a clean bore. Alloy was coww plus some tin.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCLouis
Let us know when you try them.Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
I use the NOE XCB bullet in my Savage .308, sized to .310. It is seated deep into the case since the tapered nose section contacts the rifling 'early'. I suspect your two bullets may have that problem as well.
When seated to jam into the rifling they shoot well for me. <1" groups are not unusual. I am using ~21gn 4198 for 1750fps.
When used in the Garand they work well and seat out to 'normal' length. Those are pushed to 2000fps to cycle the action.
I was trying to get a set of dies but things got severely in the way. Still trying.
I would keep the moulds you have for your 7.62 X39 separate and get a new LEE mould or two for the .308 which will throw bullets closer to .308 size.Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
Then get a .310 or .309 sizer die.
It makes it all so much easier on you.
That lee 160gr bullet you have is an excellent bullet for the 308w. Size them to .311 and load them long so they lock into the riflings in the throat of the chamber.
Unique makes for a lot of fun/range time. 2400 can and will produce some impressive groups. Never hurts to try some H335 or 4895 while your at it to see just how hard you can push them.
i use 18 grain of 2400 with lee 160 grain boolit sized 309 in my savage 116 308
In my military 30 cal rifles .311 is the best option. Although my old RI 1903 slugs out at .3085 so I use .310 in that.
Late return, sorry, but I FINALLY managed to locate an old set of RCBS dies. I loaded up a few dummies and sent them to him, and the second one was good on COAL with no problem chamberiong. I am not at home and forgot exactly the COAL that works but with the NOE boolit it stops right at the top of the crimp groove so all good. I flared the case ever so slightly with the Lee Expander Die and then adjusted the seater for just enough crimp to take the flare off, and loaded testers with 9grains of 700X, 10gr 700X and 11 gr 700x, according to Lyman data. Not changing my mind from Unique, but I use Unique for 9mm, and although 700X is good for handguns, I HATE IT...I hate the way it meters. I'll save my Unique for my dwindling supply of SPP for now.
So. hopefully this will work well for him. I did try the concept of pistol powder with cast boolit with Lyman data in 8mm first, and it worked very well. They really weren't "cat sneeze" loads, either, felt like medium power rifle loads.
My two CB loads for 308 Winchester use the Lee Lee 309-160-R sized .309 with 20 grains of 2400, or the Lyman 311299 sized .311 with 12 grains of Unique.