I'm looking at a gun chambered for 256 win mag and was wondering how difficult it is to make the brass.
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I'm looking at a gun chambered for 256 win mag and was wondering how difficult it is to make the brass.
I once owned two of them - a Marlin lever rifle and a TC Contender. Managed to blow up the Marlin with loads that were fine in the Contender. My memory is that forming the brass was not something I did because at that time I could buy ammunition and brass. I do remember also having trouble with case stretching and sometimes head separation. The cartridge was factory loaded with 60 grain boolits. Flat point. I still have the Contender barrel but gave away all brass and loading dies to a gun writer who then complained. Go figure.
I made 256 from 357 long ago. I took a 256 die and bored out to intermediate, about 30 cal. I annealed sized to 30-357 in three steps, annealed, sized to 256 in another 2 steps then annealed before loading. My Marlin 62 had an oversize chamber and was hard on brass, splitting at the shoulder, this was 1970's and 256 brass was difficult to find and there was NO INTERNET to share information. Never could get the Marlin to shoot very well. Probably today I could. Neck reaming may or may not be necessary. Prvi makes a .22 Jet that might be fireformed. I also made brass from 221 Fireball that worked OK.
so far 2 bad reports on the old levermatic 62, I might just leave it where it is, I had to rebuild a levermatic 57 a few years ago and parts were next to impossible to find.
The 256 win mag is one of my favorites in the Contender pistols. But I am using it with pointy varmint bullets and ringing out the performance as far as I can in the T/C. If you load accordingly for the old lever gun if would make a fun shooter.
I form my brass by first annealing it then a pass thru a 30 Mauser die. I then use a 256 die with the expander rod removed. Then another pass with the expander rod reinstall. Anneal them again and trim to a consistent over all length and load them up.
I have a factory 10" T/C barrel and have not had a hard time finding the correct Winchester brass. In fact all the brass I have was new unprimed in factory boxes. Have about 150 pieces collected from gun shows over a 5 year period before I even got a barrel. Works great with the 75 grain spire point bullet from Speer.
I have a couple of 256 WM rifles and found making brass from 357 mag. to be quite easy.
I have another rifle I built in 300 blk. out rimmed that I cut .060 off the bottom of the sizing die and run 357 mag brass thru once and it forms them to 30 cal. 100 % with no bad necks. So I first run 357 mag brass thru this shortened 300 blk. out die then anneal them re lube with Imperial sizing wax and run them thru my 256 win mag sizing die and they form 100 % good cases even using old fired brass and even nickle plated form slick as can be.
I bought a bag of 22 jet brass thinking fire forming them would be easier or less trouble but never fire formed any of them once I found how easy it is to make 256 running the 357 brass thru the two dies.
Jedman
I had a Contender barrel chambered for it and played around with it for a while. It was a fun cartridge and I didn't have any problems with forming cases from 357 mags.
I just had a rifle re barreled to 256 Win Mag Rimless
My rifle uses 223 cases cut down and reformed with 256 Win Mag dies
I have to ream the cases to get the right neck thickness
But it isn't hard
John
I have a 10" TC and found a 256 case forming die set with the reamer which makes it very easy to make cases from brass or nickle cases. Before I found the case forming dies I used a 30mauser and then a 256 die. Lee had a sale on a 6cav 25auto mold that cast over size 52gr boolits. They work great with a light charge of most any fast powder.
I was one of the lucky ones. Bought a .256 Win Mag barrel about 10 years ago and it came with a couple hundred brass. Tried using it for IHMSA half-size production. Only bullet that worked was 75 gr. JHP. Anything heavier couldn't hit minute of berm.
No 256 WM skin in the game here but some experience with its older cousin, the .25-20 Win.
Mines in a Contender so pointy bullets are safe and the 75 gr V max really shines!
If I had a 256 barrel I would sure be trying that bullet, provided I could find some right now ......
Three44s
I have a Levermatic 62 and have had no trouble out of it. I have not tried cast in it, but it shoots the 60 grain jacketed bullets quite well. I have formed quite a bit of brass from 357 Magnum and it is easy if you have intermediate steps to get the neck to 30 caliber and then to 7mm before going to 25. I use an old universal sizing die with the 30 caliber and 7mm bushings in it. After that I run it into a 256 Win Mag trim die and its done. You get a few culls from wrinkled shoulders but not that many. If you skip the intermediate steps you get more culls than usable brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by farmbif
Last year I bought 250 brand new 360 Dan Wesson cases from Starline for $78 with free ship (still in-stock). I converted these to .256 Win Mag cases by first annealing & then passing them through a Lee .30 Luger die ($22 die from Midway). Then final FL size through a standard set of RCBS .256 WM dies. Use Imperial sizing wax for all sizing operations. After trimming they are good-to-go!
BTW: .360 Dan Wesson brass has a thicker, stronger web than regular .357 Mag, so capacity is slightly reduced. Start reloading at minimum & work up.
well unfortunately I can't put my grubby paws on the 62, just photos and sale comes up in a few days. it doesn't look like it was kept real well and the sale will be as is, no guarantees, as much as I would like one of these 62 levermatics, I won't go more than $250 for this one that seller has rated at 40-70 % condition, rear sight missing, drilled receiver and scarred stock, upon close inspection of photos the bolt kind of looks like it might be canted. more risk than I want to take unless it sells real cheap.
A friend had a Marlin Levermatic in .256 Magnum and he and I shot it a few times. It seemed to me that it was about at its pressure limits far as design went. All we shot was factory ammo, no reloads, but there was a bright ring around the bases of the fired shells, which to me indicates a rather short reloading life.
Rear locking bolts in lever actions tend to compress along their length, and then spring back. This causes cases to stretch at the base. Townsend Whelen remarked that the early 22-3000 Savage lever actions were good for 1 or 2 full-house reloads and then it was better to use reduced loads in those shells from then on, if long case life was desired.
I see a fair number of those Marlins at gun shows, almost all of them in .22RF or Magnum. Not many .256s and never saw one in .30 Carbine. I wonder if they loosened up from shooting and became unserviceable.
the guide blocks, that's what I think they are called, in the levermatics were made out of some sort of pot metal, there certainly are not steel. several rollers in the mechanism. its a unique action for sure. and ive been down the road looking for parts before not an easy thing to find certain key parts in the mechanism.
The Marlin was originally advertised to be availablr in .256 Win mag, .357 mag, and .30 carbine. I have never seen one in anything but .256.
Never heard of the 62s being offered in 357, but I believe they were originally going to be available in 22 Jet. Never happened. Only 30 Carbine and 256 Win Mag. The 30 Carbine models are the rarest.
I have two of these, both .256 and .30 Carbine. Less than ,000 were made in .256 and fewer than that is .30. I love shooting both of them and will soon try forming some .256 from .360 DW. Glad to have some tips here from those that have done it. Thanks guys!
8
I have a .256 Win Mag single shot on a Martini Cadet frame. Just finished forming 100 brass from .360 Dan Wesson stock this weekend. The .360 DW case is plenty long so the resulting brass doesn't end up with short necks as cases formed from .357 do. Used a .30 Mauser die as an intermediate step. Chopped with a small saw as I do .300 BO. Annealed with a hand drill and a propane torch.
It worked well enough that I sold the NOS brass I had saved up on the S&S. Neck thickness was my primary concern, but the samples I measured were consistent with the factory brass I had.
Contender here also ..10" Bull barrel purchased long ago when Midsouth was closing out the barrels
nice shooting round. managed to pickup brass long ago also...
-Rock
I got a 256 Winchester magnum Bbl for my Contender about 10 years ago. I read about how hard cases we to form, saw how expensive forming dies were and decided I had made a huge mistake. Then one day I decided to try just running a 357 case into the 256 die. I crushed the first few, then slowed down. I found, for me, that if I use a light coat of Lee case lube on the outside and inside the neck and slowly formed in 4 or 5 stages, relubing between pushes, that I lost less than 5% of the cases. I was using clean, once fired cases of all brands, brass and nickel. I can live with the slightly shortened neck. I tried 360 Dan Wesson cases but didn’t have any better luck. The big things seemed to be 1. High quality case lube, 2. Taking it slow in 4 or 5 steps with relubing between steps. I was using Hornady dies (bought second hand) and a Lee reloaded press. I still have some of the Dan Wesson cases, if you want them you got them for postage, send a PM. Don’t be intimidated and have fun. Tim
I have made a couple hundred cases from 357 and so far all have been at minimum length or a bit longer. My first bunch was made by running then through a 30 mauser sizer die then a 256 die with 100% success. I then found a rcbs case forming die set with reamer at auction very cheap which works very well.
Have you tried using either .300 blk or .221 brass? They are closer to the right length and should not require neck reaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnch
Redding makes custom dies #1 and #2, if I remember right, that converts 357 brass to 256. Check on Graf and sons. I looked them up. REDDING 256 WINCHESTER FROM 357 MAG FORM #1 CUSTOM $79.99. Need #2 also for same price and both in stock.
Ron
That is still expensive when a set of 30 mauser or 7.62 x 25 dies will work to get you to a mid point where you can finish with 256 win dies.
I haven't shot a .256 since 1968....a Ruger Hawkeye..
Odd pistol, it didn't catch on.
I bought a new Marlin 62 from KMart back in the mid-60s. Later, I found buying loaded ammunition was getting difficult so I went the reloading route and bought RCBS .357 to .256 conversion dies. I don't know if they are still made. I later found a TC barrel in .256, just a 10".
Then, a couple years ago I purchased a Winchester '92 rebarreled to .256.
It's a shame the little cartridge didn't make it in the market.
I have both calibers of marlin 62 to load for. The .256 was (still is actually) dads gun that he got as a teenager from a used rack in a hardware store. I killed my first deer with it, my nephew killed his first deer with it, it’s a really nice and really fun gun. It’s hard to load for though because the chambers on most were kinda oblong messes that don’t do well because they expand just enough to try to hang. Factory loads aren’t bad at all but once cases start getting weaker then they get sticky. Finding bullets that work also isn’t super easy for jacketed, and there aren’t many good .258. Gas checked molds in the 60-70 gr range. Brass is unobtainable so forming is a given. From .357 I use a chopped up 30-30 sizer to neck size to .30-357. Even annealling I lose about 10% to cracking. Anneal again, and size down to final size. Lose roughly another 10% to cracking. Shoulders are hideous, but they shoot decently well when being fire-formed to the oblong chamber. 3 or 4 shots is about all that can be expected from once fired .357 brass, and I suspect that a max of 5 would be true for virgin starline .357 but I have never tried it. I have piles of .357 so I don’t bother. Still though, it’s a fun gun and I love shooting it, but I generally prefer the 30 carbine because it’s just as nice, a lot easier to feed, and it’s almost as accurate as the faster and flatter .256.
One thing that is absolutely amazing considering how puny the little .256 is is the amount of damage it does when it hits meat. The little 60gr JHP factory loaded bullet explodes about an inch in and leaves a void of shredded mess roughly the size of a grapefruit. A hit on a deer vitals with that and there is not much left that is recognizable inside the chest cavity. A shot in the gut is one of the biggest messes that can be imagined.
Pricing on the little rifles is stupid. Flat out stupid. They are not super durable, are an absolute nightmare to work on and parts are rare. Still though, I love the little guns and keep hoping to find a beater or an orphaned action to have the trifecta. Marlin actually made a .357 but never mass produced them and sold them. It’s was purely a pre-production sample. A .256 bolt in a decent action with a .357 barrel screwed on and only shooting 38 level ammo through it would make this old boy happy. One of these days... but the last barreled action I saw sell went in the $500 ballpark. I was a bidder to $300 but after that I just quit and watched the idiocy.
I bought a new Marlin model 62 in 30 Carbine back in 1972 or so. It cycled perfectly with factory ammo, all brands. However it refused to seat any case (loaded or empty) after it was full length sized. Never could figure a way around that issue so the rifle went away. After all there still were at that time plenty of G.I. surplus carbines on the market.
A bunch of years ago I purchased a NOS 30 carbine barrel from a Model 62. Had it rechambered to 30-30 and adapted to a Contender. With the slow twist it is good for light bullets.
I have a handi rifle in 256 WM with a 1-10 twist barrel. I have not shot any game animal with it but it shoots 87 and 100 gr. bullets under MOA at a 100 yards so in some states where legal I think it would be a effective deer killer for someone who knows when and when not to take a shot at a deer. It seems the bullet makers kind of shun the 25 cal. Compared to the .223, .243, .284, .308 they sure don’t offer the choices of bullet weights and bullet designs in .257.
I like the 256 WM because I can make the cases from common 357 brass and load it with many different powders and use it for squirrels to deer. In my handi rifle I can load 100 gr. bullets to over 2.00” OAL and not be touching the lands.
Jedman