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Can you explain black powder cartridges, pros, cons, and where does one find cartridge revolvers that are actually set up to work with the Holy Black? Or should I just get conversion cylinders for my percussion babies and load BP cartridge with them? Thank you for your reply - I am actually genuinely curious.
The Colt 1873 was designed for BP. Any of the current revolver cartridges can be shot with BP. That being said some work better than others. The 44/40 is the classic example. The brass is thin enough that BP provides an adequate seal. In the 45 Colt Starline recommend annealing to ensure that you get an adequate seal with the harder and thicker brass.
Your black powder revolvers should work fine with conversion cylinders. The SAA clones should be fine as well. With the conversions, you'll either have a two-piece arrangement that requires disassembly of the gun for reloading or a loading gate system that will require heavy modification of the frame. If you're shooting .36s, that presents another set of problems. I would just get a SAA clone.
As for the cartridge, I'd use a cartridge that was originally designed for it. I love my .44-40, but 45lc brass is much easier to come by.
.45 long colt
Actually if you are going to be using black powder your choices are greater than people shooting smokeless. You can buy antique revolvers and you don't even have to go throught an FFL. Mentioned was 44-40 and 45 colt which are fine but consider 32's and 38's. Even 38 special was originally a black powder cartridge. You can buy an antique revolver in .38 S&W for less than most modern revolvers and shoot it with black powder, single action, double action, solid frame, top break. If you stick with black powder and cast bullets you don't have to worry about too much pressure. You can have a blast. Consider making your own black powder. If you are inclined maybe get a conversion cylinder for a replica but that will require involving an FFL and will probably cost more than an inexpensive antique revolver.
It is all great fun.
Tim
I am actually working on the making of black powder, just dipped my toe in that deep pond. :) I know this will sound dumb, but what antiques would you recommend that wouldn't be extremely expensive? If I just bought a modern Pietta 38 SAA, how much extra cleaning would be required?
Thank you all for your replies.
Actually no. Conversion cylinders don't require FFLs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dtknowles
Hello armoredman,
Personally I shoot Black MZ in my cartridge conversions.
I picked up a case from Sportsmans Warehouse while they were closing it out.
It is discontinued now, but it was made by A.P.P. which is still available.
It does create a lot of smoke, but doesn't have the flash of Black Powder.
All I can say about Black Powder is to make sure the cartridge if full, no air space.
AntiqueSledMan.
I see that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundermaker
Tim
I like S&W spur trigger single actions, shooters not collector quality are less than an a new Pietta 38 SAA. I think H&R revolvers in good condition are safe with Black Powder and are even less expensive than S&W.Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman
Cleanup is a must with black powder. If you shoot cap and ball, the clean up is the same. Others probably know better than me about cleaning, but I just take the cylinder out and clean cylinder and barrel with hot water, dry, lightly oil and reassemble.
Tim
Once you go down the black powder rabbit hole you'll never come back.
deleted.
The issue that hasn't been covered is cleaning your brass. I put mine in a Lyman shaker with ceramic beads, water and dish soap. This cleans out the BP residue and leaves them dull. This needs to be done relatively soon after shooting.
I drop my cases into a bottle of soapy water as soon as I get back to the gun cart. Makes a big difference.
Truth be told, I find cleaning the cases to be more troublesome than cleaning the gun. However, there is something magical when shooting BP cartridge guns.
little red steam cleaner, makes short work of black powder
There’s confusion about Colt’s when talking about black powder frames. The designation refers to what pressures you should subject the pistol to, not that they’re more effectively used with black powder than a nonblack powder frame. Everyone’s cleaning routine differs. Most times I do a 100% breakdown but I don’t loose any sleep if I don’t. Either way, obviously the cylinder and barrel need to be cleaned and I take care to use pipe cleaners or Q tips in the pawl channel. Water works great. Dry afterwards and oil with a non-petroleum lube. Break Free, Ballistol or jojoba oil works great. Use a black powder lube on your bullets and you’ll be fine
Agree with everything in post #17. Castaway has struck the nail on the flat part.
Dave
Loaded my Uberti 32-20 with BP, and it shot better than some of the smokeless rounds I was trying out. It was closer to POA.
It did bring a smile to my face when I let the first one go.
From my reading you're right, conversion cylinders don't require FFL. BUT - The machining required to install the conversion cylinder makes the cartridge gun like a homemade weapon. Anytime that weapon is to be transferred then it must have serial number and FFL to transfer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundermaker
The above is my understanding. I welcome any comments.
Ken, for the most part, the cylinders are “drop in. If minor fitting is required, it’s a lick or two with a stone or file. Not what you’d consider machining. Individual states may require you to go through an FFL to transfer a cap and ball or cylinder but it’s not a federal requirement. Our north eastern friends are sometimes surprised to learn some states allow transfer among eligible individuals.
https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/th...%20US%20states.
Cap & Ball revolvers can be bought in most US states and shipped mail order direct to you without going through an FFL. Cartridge conversions for the most common cap & ball revolvers are designated by ATF as "parts" and can be similarly shipped direct by US mail in most US states.
Some state laws are more restrictive, so if you live in CA, HI, NY, NJ, IL, etc. you better check first to see if they are legal. Giorgio tells me that in the EU they can only dream of such things. If a "snowbird" in a northeastern US state already had a legal C&B revolver and kept the conversion unit at the winter condo in Florida how is anyone going to know?
A fellow CBA member had one of these and didn't have time too fool with it, but thought it would make an interesting CBA forum entry and maybe later a more comprehensive Fouling Shot article, so we worked a deal. Howell makes these for most reproduction cap & ball revolvers from the Colt 1863 Pocket to the big Colt Walkers and Dragoons. See: https://www.howellarms.com/
The instructions say that as long as you keep the gun in its original configuration and just swap the cartridge cylinder for the cap & ball one, all is "Kosher" and you don't have a "firearm" according to ATF. But once you remove the cap & ball loading lever and modify the frame to install a loading gate and rod ejector to permit that fast cowboy reload, you have then manufactured "a firearm," which is still OK for your personal use, but further transfer then requires completing a Form 4473.
44caliber black powder is .451 or .452 diameter bullet with conversion cylinder a 45 colt takes 30-40 grain bp by volume. You can buy molds or bullets around 250-255 to be safe to shoot in it. I have 1851 Remington with conversion. Maybe a total of $600 bucks. Large pistol primers. Work up load with 3-5 grains till max. Lyman has good molds on midwayusa.com or eBay.com. Some basics. You could clean with warm soapy water and use lemi shine in warm water to clean brass does excellent job. It’s just a soak. Etc, etc. any questions @OP. ?
Sorry I didn't get back to this one in a timely manner - my Howell conversion cylinder is coming tomorrow. I am going to use the info you fine gents have given me in three threads, (I obviously was NOT paying attention to how many times I asked the same question!), and we'll see how it goes. Thank you all!
Agree with dtknowles #10 post. I have bought a pair of H&R 732/733 revolvers. Now I shoot red dot in mine, but they would work fine with holy black.
One was black, and shot great, other was chrome and did not, so I let that one go down the road. Paid less than 150$ ea.
Both were in .32sw long, but I suspect if you check local pawn shops you'll probably find several in several different calibers.
Love the .32sw long myself, easy on old hands to shoot and a barrel of fun. With Holy black even more so.
Just need to find a cast boolit mold that is 2-3 thousandths bigger than groove and go have some fun.