Lubing pellets with Ballistol

I did some testing last year and wanted to go down this rabbit hole again. Last year I shot 5 shot groups at 50 yards and found "a little" Ballistol shrank groups from .814" to .65" (average of 10 groups). A "heavy" amount of Ballistol opened groups up to .87"

Today, conditions were not great, so I stayed at 25 yards. Wind was gusting up to 10 mph from the north and my range faces west. I know, the range should face north but my house is not built that way and I shoot off the back porch to 200 yards.

The gun was a .22 Daystate Huntsman. It is not regulated. I top the gun up after every 20 shots form a tank. Pellets are the Crosman Premier HP's that weigh 14.3 gr. Pellets are straight from the tin. No weight sorting, skirt unforming or visual inspection. Cheap Amazon and Wally World $6.24 per tin "crap".

I decided to shoot five 10 shot groups figuring that was a better test than 5 shot groups, and saves me hobbling back and forth so much. Getting old sucks.

Without lube, I got .547"

Instead of a subjective "a little" lube, I measured 20 drops of lube into a new tin of 500, and got .453" groups.

Then put 30 drops into fresh tin of 500 and averaged .484" with one bad group that went .679". The four "good" groups averaged .436"

I decided to repeat the 30 drops of lube test and ended up with .662".

This last test was frustrating. The groups were very good except for one flier in nearly every group. I was getting tired, and the wind had picked up. I also wonder if I am getting "lube purge" or maybe the barrel needs cleaning.

Testing last year and this year have shown adding some lube helps accuracy of these cheap pellets in my gun. YMMV.

Health issues have kept me from shooting much and firing 200 rounds today aggravated my back.

I will be doing more testing. I may weigh sort pellets to see if that addresses the fliers I am getting. No way I will ever weight sort plinking pellets, but it would be fun to get some "wallet" groups with $6.24 pellets.

One thing for sure, 10 shot groups are tougher to hold together and they make average group size larger. Let me explain. I had a .396 group and one shot opened it up to .696. If I had a .396" group for 5 shots and .696" for the next five that would average .546" There is a very high chance the 5 shot group would be less than the .396' nine shot group. And there is a good chance the maximum group would be less than .696".

Out of the 20 groups shot today, I had 10 nine shot groups that were under .35".

With 5 shot groups at 50 yards that gun/pellet combo averaged .77" groups at 50 yards last year. That was the average of 45 groups!

BTW, one reason I ignore accuracy posts with one 5 shot group. They are "feel good" but tell little else.

Sorry but it is a pain for me to post groups and I shoot a lot of groups.

I will update as I send more pellets down range. Plus I want to see how my inexpensive DAR does.

Does ballistol alter the velocity in anyway. A drop of diesel on the back of pellet is said to ignite upon the being hit by the compressed air of a spring powered gun and IIRC correctly is not good for material on the face of a piston. With a pneumatic power gun I am not sure as to what might happen.

I have done a lot of research on using Ballistol in PCP guns and many British “experts” (they shoot a lot and have some good data to share) are of the belief that Ballistol helps with group size. There seems to be better results depending on how it’s applied and when it’s applied. I have a small bottle of it here and plan on trying it myself. I’d trust what Don is reporting, he’s pretty meticulous in his approach. Totally agree on five shot groups. I use them, but I do at least three of them to get any statistical results. It really shows why three shot groups in any gun is pretty much useless information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barnetmill

Does ballistol alter the velocity in anyway. A drop of diesel on the back of pellet is said to ignite upon the being hit by the compressed air of a spring powered gun and IIRC correctly is not good for material on the face of a piston. With a pneumatic power gun I am not sure as to what might happen.

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I cannot comment on velocity.

I have been told Ballistol will not diesel.

NSB, thanks for the kind words...

BTW, have not forgotten your advice to test on a calm day, but I have been getting cabin fever and felt good enough to get a bit if trigger time in.

Most of the “fliers” were left/right. 5 mph wind drift with those pellets at 25 yards is 3/4 inch. It doesn’t take much to blow a good group.

I have a couple of tins of Air Arms pellets my gun loves, but decided not to waste them today.

BTW, if you would be kind enough to share links of what the “experts” are doing it would be appreciated. I suppose there is no “one size fits all” answer but it would be interesting.

Without going into to much detail - I was told in 2009 by a top local air rifle
Shooter that he lubes his store bought crossman pellets with heated car wax- just a few drops per tin and then shakes it gently like Lee Alox. He gave me a tin of off brand Chinese .22 cal pellets in a cardboard container like an old milk carton from school lunch . And I’ve never again shot such good consistent groups from my Benjamin.22 cal rifle.
I’ve not repeated as I was soon sidetracked down another rabbit hole and am just now getting back into air rifles.

Interesting results. Any idea as to why the lube helps? Any theories?

I watched a good video on a guy doing this and then measuring groups. It was last year sometime and I went and ordered some Ballistol to try it. Just didn’t get around to it yet. I’ll see if I can find it and post the link. I’m a “tinkerer” myself and I’m always trying to find out how to wring out something extra from my gun and loads. I’m not sure myself what it might do to my Daystate. I have the HUMA regulator on mine and my shot-shot variation is crazy small…..like 3fps in a ten shot string as long as I’m shooting on/above the regulator. I get about 43 very consistent shots before it starts to wander.

Be care full. Some of the lubes destroy the seals in your air gun > I found this the hard way>>>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawkenhunter50

Interesting results. Any idea as to why the lube helps? Any theories?

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There are two theories I have seen. One, is that the Crosman pellets have antimony and are prone to coat the barrel and accuracy drops off quickly. Lubing reduces this tendency.

The other theory is lube lets the barrel maintain accuracy for more rounds by keeping it cleaner even if using pure lead pellets like the JSB’s.

BTW, the JSB’s work well in both my guns and many report good results with them. But they are three times the cost of the Crosman’s. My goal is to get close to premium pellet accuracy with the Crosman’s.

I expect lubing the JSB’s will have less benefit....there is a point of diminishing return. Especially for me as I am not competing and just plinking. If I can get 10 shot 1” groups at 50 yards with pellets that cost less than $15/k I will be quite happy.

Another comment about lube. Every other lead bullet we shoot is lubed. Be it .22 standard velocity, .38 wadcutters at 700 fps, or higher velocity 9mm. Intuitively, it makes sense lube should help accuracy.

Thanks for the info, I did not know about the antimony. I usually have decent results with the cheap Crosman pellets. This looks like a neat test you did, and might just give this a try myself to see if I get the same type of results.

dverna,

That was some very good shooting; especially considering a crosswind!! I’ve seen other good reports on ballistol for lubing pellets and slugs in airguns.

Would love to see you try that same test with a "light" addition of ATF, ie Dextron II or III Automatic Transmission Fluid. Maybe 5 drops in a whole tin then shake.
And the same for BLL. 5 drops in a tin, shake, then open to let them dry.

ATF has become my lubrication of choice for all things gun related. Half a quart bottle from the garage will last you a significant portion of your life.

I had a 20 yr old Heritage Rough Rider convertable revolver in .22lr and .22wmr. I spent 10 minutes cleaning with a single q-tip moistened with ATF. Then wiped it all dry as I wiped down the outside. Man did that old girl sit up and take noticed.

Before a cylinder spin would maybe rotate 1.5 times. Now it was rolling through 5 or 6 rotations. Cocking the action everything sounded clean crisp like a perfectly tuned sewing machine. Well it turned me into a believer. Now I keep about a 1 oz jar of ATF and a box of q-tips on my desk. The gunoils, 3 in 1 oils have been retired to a desk drawer.

Sorry to read about your back pain challenges -- I do hope you get relief!!! Re pellet lubing, albeit I LOVE Ballistol for soooo many uses, I've been wary using it behind pellets. Hence, I'm happy to read you have applied a bit with no harm!
Vis the "fool and his money soon parted" thread, I saw some Napier Power Pellet Lube on the Airguns of Arizona site a while back -- then a short ten dollar bill for less than an ounce -- and elected to try one. Attachment 302908 It seems to work as advertised, and I am better able to hit a barn wall at twenty paces :) :) :). Seriously, when bench-rest shooting I can (hopefully not "just in my head") see an appreciable group size reduction. Frankly, I am not a "good-enough" shooter to perhaps make it worth the price, but I teeny amount goes quite the long way!
Had you not heard of or tried this product -- I thought I'd share.
geo

George,
I have heard of the Napier product and a little goes a LONG way. One guy on YouTube who shoots about 1000 pellets a month has used it for over 3 years...IIRC 5 drops to a tin. He is on his first little bottle.

Ghosthawk,

BLL is on my list of stuff to try. Another product is this stuff used for bicycle chains:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/White-Lig...e&gclsrc=3p.ds

It is a wax instead of an oil and likely closer to BLL so an interesting option. If it works, it will not have the downsides of BLL. (Keeping BBL mixed and liquid)

I have also seen positive reports of using synthetic 2 cycle oil as a pellet lube.

BTW, it seems most of these products are applied by washing pellets with something like Dawn soap, rinsing well, and drying well before application. Those of you who have read my posts wrt reloading/casting know I am a lazy SOB. My joy is in the destination (holes in stuff) not the journey to get there. Easy and cheap trumps getting the last bit of potential out of a load. (ie...trimming pistol brass, weighing every charge and cleaning primer pockets are a waste of time for me)

I started with Ballistol for two reasons. I had a lifetime supply and it seemed easy to use. Open tin, add "goop" gently shake, SHOOT. If that gives me the results I want. I will stop there. If not, I will try the White Lightning chain lube next.

Here’s one of the video’s I saw. Lots of them on the net
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...W74VWMvRaRAYWB

I had some old pellets that had dried out so I lubed them with silicone oil worked good but I did not test for group size.

Don -- In my mountain-biking days the White Lightning was the best kid on the block! My 'biking was in pretty much 100% dry terrain, but the younger and wilder riders oft' pedaled through mud-holes, creek beds, and similar. My (Gary Turner) bike has no fenders -- so I avoided the wet stuff ;) -- guaranteed mud-soaked be-hind. However, again, White Lightning proved its worth, so riders voiced, after wet-biking. I, too, used the stuff, and still have a bottle of it...
The product which replaced it, so to speak, was a dry Teflon lub which I cannot recall the name of, but this is moot as it became unavailable -- no longer made. Following, we found DuPont's Attachment 302912 Non-Stick Dry Lub to be the cat's meow! I wonder if a short spritz on a spread-out layer of pellets (it goes on wet) which are jiggled to coat all before drying might not be a better option than than the 'Lightning?
In *my* experience, the 'Lightning goes on kind of thick/thin -- great on mountain bike gear-sets and chains -- but -- questions arise re use on pellets...
geo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

George,
I have heard of the Napier product and a little goes a LONG way. One guy on YouTube who shoots about 1000 pellets a month has used it for over 3 years...IIRC 5 drops to a tin. He is on his first little bottle.

Ghosthawk,

BLL is on my list of stuff to try. Another product is this stuff used for bicycle chains:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/White-Lig...e&gclsrc=3p.ds

It is a wax instead of an oil and likely closer to BLL so an interesting option. If it works, it will not have the downsides of BLL. (Keeping BBL mixed and liquid)

I have also seen positive reports of using synthetic 2 cycle oil as a pellet lube.

BTW, it seems most of these products are applied by washing pellets with something like Dawn soap, rinsing well, and drying well before application. Those of you who have read my posts wrt reloading/casting know I am a lazy SOB. My joy is in the destination (holes in stuff) not the journey to get there. Easy and cheap trumps getting the last bit of potential out of a load. (ie...trimming pistol brass, weighing every charge and cleaning primer pockets are a waste of time for me)

I started with Ballistol for two reasons. I had a lifetime supply and it seemed easy to use. Open tin, add "goop" gently shake, SHOOT. If that gives me the results I want. I will stop there. If not, I will try the White Lightning chain lube next.

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More testing today.

I had a freaking wasp nest in the center support tube of my shooting bench. When I went to lower the seat to ease the strain on my back, I started seeing the little ******** coming out. Good old Raid to the rescue. Got most of them but decided to cut the shooting short when I started getting more of them coming around.

Good thing too. Doctor called and they were able to get me in early for an exam. Will know more after the X-rays. Tweaked my back two weeks ago cutting rounds off the log pile. Went to step back and slipped. Threw the saw one way while I twisted my body the other way. Fell hard.

Anyway, managed to fire 15 groups today. Here are the results. Again at 25 yards. Wind was lighter (4-6 mph) but squirrely with lots of shifting.

First ten groups with 20 drops of Ballistol delivered an average of .509"
Smallest group was .360" and largest was .688". Yesterday I got an average of .453" for five groups

Then shot 5 groups with 30 drops of Ballistol, they averaged .485"
Smallest was .366" and largest was .580". Yesterday 10 groups averaged .557"
Smallest was .337" and largest was .804"

Looking at all 15 groups:
20 drops averaged .491"
30 drops averaged .533"

With no lube, groups are .547"

There is a small improvement using Ballistol. With 20 drops of lube groups shrank by
10%. With 30 drops, groups were essentially the same within the margin of error.

At this point, I need to fire another 10 groups without lube to get an apples to apples comparison as I only have 5 groups with bare pellets.

As to achieving my goal of an average 1" groups at 50 yards, I will test the 20 drop treatment. It should be close.

One last piece of information from the testing last year with this gun and a variety of pellets. Using 5 shot groups, I averaged .33" at 25 yards for 20 groups. At 50 yards, my average was .76" for 146 groups.

It seems that moving from 5 shot to 10 shot groups resulted in going from an average of .33" to about .5"...and increase of 50%

Last year, at 50 yards, untreated Crosman pellets averaged .77" for 45 five shot groups.

If, and it is a big if, 10 shot groups will be 50% larger than 5 shot groups and Ballistol reduces groups by 10%, Here is what I should get for 10 shot groups with treated pellets at 50 yards:

.77' x 1.5 x 90% = 1.04"

Stay tuned!!! My search may be over...might still try the White Lightening though.

Aren't engineers a PITA?

Very interesting report Don. I've read of the Crosman pellets leaving antimony in the bore enough to need a lot of shots to get accuracy
when switching to a different pellet and I "seem" to be experiencing this. Wonder if the lube would help with this also?
Years ago was able to go into work on week ends and shoot down the long aisles in the warehouse. I'm not as meticulous a tester
but the lack of breeze should take a little more uncertainty from the equation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chutesnreloads

Very interesting report Don. I've read of the Crosman pellets leaving antimony in the bore enough to need a lot of shots to get accuracy
when switching to a different pellet and I "seem" to be experiencing this. Wonder if the lube would help with this also?
Years ago was able to go into work on week ends and shoot down the long aisles in the warehouse. I'm not as meticulous a tester
but the lack of breeze should take a little more uncertainty from the equation.

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You could be right about issues with bore seasoning. I have seen some issues with needing 10-20 shot to "settle in" but it is either not consistent or I am not a good enough shot to decern it. I have switched pellets when testing different types and at times the first group is fantastic...go figure.

I have had some high end pellets shoot like crap for 10 shots and gave up. Makes me wonder if I had put 50 downrange, they may have "settled in". But the issue becomes mute for most of us. We find a few pellets that shoot well and go with them.

My guns like the JSB Exact 15.89 gr and the Air Arms 16.0. It was surprising as NSB has the same gun (except regulated), and his gun shoots the heavier pellets better. But it is what it is.

I was either lucky, or cursed, to find the cheap Crosman's shot well enough for my needs (about .2" larger groups at 50 yards)...good enough for an old man who plinks. Lucky part, I can shoot for $6.24/tin of 500, and cursed that they are so damn light and more affected by wind. The heavier pellets will have 40-50% less drift at 25- 50 yards. BTW, an FYI, any small gains in accuracy are quickly negated when selecting a pellet to hunt with as ranges extend much past 25 yards. People getting into hunting need to weigh that reality...a heavy 2 MOA pellet will be a better hunting choice than a light 1 MOA pellet.

A bit of thread drift but what the hell....

I have had a lot of fun, leaned a lot, and will learn more as I 'dip my toes' in PCPs. I keep my 10/22 by door for taking out varmints because it is a better option and noise is of no concern where I live. NO WAY an air gun is better than a .22 LR for that job. Even a .25 cal pellet has less than 1/2 the energy of a .22LR and more wind drift. YMMV if you live where a "real" gun cannot be utilized.

There is no need to shoot at 500+ yards to learn how to shoot in the wind. The Crosman 14.3's have a 10 mph wind drift of 24.7" at a MV of 950 fps. (check what a 'Long Range' rifle does at 500 yards...the pellet is more challenging). At 50 yards that pellet drifts 6.0", about the same at a big game hunting bullet at 300 yards.

IMO, a person that wants to learn to shoot well would be wise to invest in a good PCP air gun.

1. The platform is accurate. A poor shot is always your fault. (ie, not due to casting defect or erratic ES)
2. It is inexpensive. You can invest in plenty of trigger time.
3. You can shoot almost anywhere. No "range trips" with $4-5 gal gas or range fees/dues. Or ninja ********.
4. Never a shortage of components or "scalper prices". (Purchased 30k pellets for less than $500 last year)
5. No time wasted smelting, casting, inspecting, lubing, sizing, picking up cases, cleaning cases, reloading.

I will never stop reloading but will be doing a lot less. It takes me about 3 1/2 hours to cast and lube 1000 pistol bullets...costs about $35 using my stock of commercial alloy and lube. (I know you guys get "free" lead...LOL). Using powder (4.5 gr) and primers from my inventory costs $40/1000. If I had to pay current prices, figure about $125. I can reload 1000 rounds in 90 minutes (Dillon 1050)...YMMV. My current cost comes to $75/k. If the "new normal" lasts, it will cost $160/k. Total time 5 hours with case cleaning done 'off the clock'. This is for pistol plinking bullets used also in carbines. For rifle loads, cost of powder will be doubled, or more.

Cost for 1000 pellets and air....$15. Time invested....90 seconds on Amazon.

When .22's went nuts during the previous shortage I sold most of them and shot .38's and 9mm. Many others on this forum did the same. When "THIS" happened, I sold most of my primers and switched gears again.

Shooting is a lot more affordable than boating, or golf or cars. I will never complain about the cost of my hobby.

BTW, this is a sales pitch. I want to see more people shooting, not fewer. Let's hit whoever is screwing us with the cost of components by NOT buying stuff we do not NEED. By that, I mean the only powder and primers we need are if you compete, to defend our home, and to hunt. You can maintain proficiency and have tons of trigger time without spending a lot of money and feeding the shortages. The more people that get into air gunning, the cheaper everything becomes for all of us. Powder and primers prices will drop. There is another upside. The air gun industry will develop and introduce better guns at lower cost. This is already happening. It is not BS. My DAR cost $300 and is damn close to my $1000 Daystate. My Crosman $375 1701P will outshoot any target .22.

JUST DO IT!

If becoming a good shooter is not important. If you want to support the current shortages. Keep on keeping on.

BTW, I realize for many the joy of shooting requires boom, smoke and/or recoil. I am not denigrating those folks. I enjoy shooting "real guns'' too. It bothers me to see folks thinking about leaving the sport because of the current supply and price situation. If we can get more people shooting, and keep the shooters we have active, it will help us down the road.

I have loved this sport for over 60 years. The only things I loved longer are my departed dad, mom and sister.

Don, another good post/perspective on shooting and shooting with air guns. I shot competition for forty years and spent enough money on guns, ammo, entry fees, etc. to buy another house. Somewhere along the line I realized I could still be challenged by PCP air rifles and do it for a lot less money and time spent looking for components. There’s a challenge in every type of shooting discipline, even air guns. I quit hunting deer with bolt action rifles years ago because the challenge in making the shot just wasn’t there. I started shooting and hunting deer with single shot rifles, muzzle loaders, bows, and handguns. I enjoy the challenge of learning to shoot well more than I do the accomplishment of shooting a great group with monotonous regularity. I endorse your comments about promoting air gun shooting and pushing the costs of primers, powder, etc down by reducing the need which raises the price and availability. I still enjoy bench time with my single shot rifles and handguns, but I spend a lot more time now shooting and hunting with my air gun. So much so, that I’m probably going to add another one to the stable.

Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.

I did a BOATLOAD of testing with 22 cal pellets in a Benjamin Marauder pistol, one that eventually had to go back to the bakery because of air leaks, they "fixed" it by replacing it, but the replacement grouped horribly so they replaced it yet again with a new one, and put in two tins of Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3gr pellets.

I had heard that barrels on these could be hit or miss, I think some barrels were made by Green Mountain, these are reported to shoot very well and others were made by who knows who. I think the guys at the factory knew this already and they chose me a very good shooter, musta gotten a GM barrel this time, and with those Benjamin PCP Discovery pellets, it outshot ALL of the groups in my previous strings of tests.

Mine has the tport drilled to .143" and I didn't chrono it but it certainly became more lethal on squirrels so I know it picked up a good bit of velocity, as it also created a tad bit of felt recoil, and greatly diminished the shot capacity of a fully charged gas tube. I prefer it like it is, and those pellets are perfect for that barrel whatever make it is.

Since moving a few years ago I have no invading squirrels here, I stuck a lifelike owl decoy over my tomatoes and they have vanished completely from this side of the street, so this fine piece of kit sits in a closet mostly but I enjoyed the talk of various lube which I would definitely try if I get back to shooting it again.

In 4 years I did have two big brave ones cross the road and get into close proximity to the garden, and it dispatched them both rather quickly with one head shot each. That was 2 years ago I think.

Thanks for the great discussion!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DougGuy

I did a BOATLOAD of testing with 22 cal pellets in a Benjamin Marauder pistol, one that eventually had to go back to the bakery because of air leaks, they "fixed" it by replacing it, but the replacement grouped horribly so they replaced it yet again with a new one, and put in two tins of Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3gr pellets.

I had heard that barrels on these could be hit or miss, I think some barrels were made by Green Mountain, these are reported to shoot very well and others were made by who knows who. I think the guys at the factory knew this already and they chose me a very good shooter, musta gotten a GM barrel this time, and with those Benjamin PCP Discovery pellets, it outshot ALL of the groups in my previous strings of tests.

Mine has the tport drilled to .143" and I didn't chrono it but it certainly became more lethal on squirrels so I know it picked up a good bit of velocity, as it also created a tad bit of felt recoil, and greatly diminished the shot capacity of a fully charged gas tube. I prefer it like it is, and those pellets are perfect for that barrel whatever make it is.

Since moving a few years ago I have no invading squirrels here, I stuck a lifelike owl decoy over my tomatoes and they have vanished completely from this side of the street, so this fine piece of kit sits in a closet mostly but I enjoyed the talk of various lube which I would definitely try if I get back to shooting it again.

In 4 years I did have two big brave ones cross the road and get into close proximity to the garden, and it dispatched them both rather quickly with one head shot each. That was 2 years ago I think.

Thanks for the great discussion!

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Without (hopefully) not straying this thread ;), one of my first PCP's was a Marauder .22 pistol. I shimmed to firm stock -- a requisite! -- and bought that nifty overpriced piece of plastic with holes in that inserts into stock to store magazines. Sooo in love with this airgun, I couldn't wait to buy its sister -- the Woods Walker version. The latter has never ever shot as well as the plain-Jane one... you may have come up with a possible answer to this mystery *IF*, say, the 'Walker came with an inferior made barrel (???).

geo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rbuck351

Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.

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Good the hear you are enjoying "The Dark Side". I now have four PCP's and a CO2 pistol.

BTW, I blame NSB for pushing me further down the rabbit hole. But he did not have to do much pushing. He recommended the Daystate. It was more than I wanted to invest but I had sold a bunch of stuff so went for it. It was everything I could hope for after I stumbled for a bit. He helped me a lot.

One thing about this site. There are people who have walked the walk and know their stuff. All of them share information and give great advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

You could be right about issues with bore seasoning. I have seen some issues with needing 10-20 shot to "settle in" but it is either not consistent or I am not a good enough shot to decern it. I have switched pellets when testing different types and at times the first group is fantastic...go figure.

I have had some high end pellets shoot like crap for 10 shots and gave up. Makes me wonder if I had put 50 downrange, they may have "settled in". But the issue becomes mute for most of us. We find a few pellets that shoot well and go with them.

My guns like the JSB Exact 15.89 gr and the Air Arms 16.0. It was surprising as NSB has the same gun (except regulated), and his gun shoots the heavier pellets better. But it is what it is.

I was either lucky, or cursed, to find the cheap Crosman's shot well enough for my needs (about .2" larger groups at 50 yards)...good enough for an old man who plinks. Lucky part, I can shoot for $6.24/tin of 500, and cursed that they are so damn light and more affected by wind. The heavier pellets will have 40-50% less drift at 25- 50 yards. BTW, an FYI, any small gains in accuracy are quickly negated when selecting a pellet to hunt with as ranges extend much past 25 yards. People getting into hunting need to weigh that reality...a heavy 2 MOA pellet will be a better hunting choice than a light 1 MOA pellet.

A bit of thread drift but what the hell....

I have had a lot of fun, leaned a lot, and will learn more as I 'dip my toes' in PCPs. I keep my 10/22 by door for taking out varmints because it is a better option and noise is of no concern where I live. NO WAY an air gun is better than a .22 LR for that job. Even a .25 cal pellet has less than 1/2 the energy of a .22LR and more wind drift. YMMV if you live where a "real" gun cannot be utilized.

There is no need to shoot at 500+ yards to learn how to shoot in the wind. The Crosman 14.3's have a 10 mph wind drift of 24.7" at a MV of 950 fps. (check what a 'Long Range' rifle does at 500 yards...the pellet is more challenging). At 50 yards that pellet drifts 6.0", about the same at a big game hunting bullet at 300 yards.

IMO, a person that wants to learn to shoot well would be wise to invest in a good PCP air gun.

1. The platform is accurate. A poor shot is always your fault. (ie, not due to casting defect or erratic ES)
2. It is inexpensive. You can invest in plenty of trigger time.
3. You can shoot almost anywhere. No "range trips" with $4-5 gal gas or range fees/dues. Or ninja ********.
4. Never a shortage of components or "scalper prices". (Purchased 30k pellets for less than $500 last year)
5. No time wasted smelting, casting, inspecting, lubing, sizing, picking up cases, cleaning cases, reloading.

I will never stop reloading but will be doing a lot less. It takes me about 3 1/2 hours to cast and lube 1000 pistol bullets...costs about $35 using my stock of commercial alloy and lube. (I know you guys get "free" lead...LOL). Using powder (4.5 gr) and primers from my inventory costs $40/1000. If I had to pay current prices, figure about $125. I can reload 1000 rounds in 90 minutes (Dillon 1050)...YMMV. My current cost comes to $75/k. If the "new normal" lasts, it will cost $160/k. Total time 5 hours with case cleaning done 'off the clock'. This is for pistol plinking bullets used also in carbines. For rifle loads, cost of powder will be doubled, or more.

Cost for 1000 pellets and air....$15. Time invested....90 seconds on Amazon.

When .22's went nuts during the previous shortage I sold most of them and shot .38's and 9mm. Many others on this forum did the same. When "THIS" happened, I sold most of my primers and switched gears again.

Shooting is a lot more affordable than boating, or golf or cars. I will never complain about the cost of my hobby.

BTW, this is a sales pitch. I want to see more people shooting, not fewer. Let's hit whoever is screwing us with the cost of components by NOT buying stuff we do not NEED. By that, I mean the only powder and primers we need are if you compete, to defend our home, and to hunt. You can maintain proficiency and have tons of trigger time without spending a lot of money and feeding the shortages. The more people that get into air gunning, the cheaper everything becomes for all of us. Powder and primers prices will drop. There is another upside. The air gun industry will develop and introduce better guns at lower cost. This is already happening. It is not BS. My DAR cost $300 and is damn close to my $1000 Daystate. My Crosman $375 1701P will outshoot any target .22.

JUST DO IT!

If becoming a good shooter is not important. If you want to support the current shortages. Keep on keeping on.

BTW, I realize for many the joy of shooting requires boom, smoke and/or recoil. I am not denigrating those folks. I enjoy shooting "real guns'' too. It bothers me to see folks thinking about leaving the sport because of the current supply and price situation. If we can get more people shooting, and keep the shooters we have active, it will help us down the road.

I have loved this sport for over 60 years. The only things I loved longer are my departed dad, mom and sister.

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Couldn't agree more. But I've enjoyed the air guns so much I never really considered the money saved. Can't shoot the powder burners at
home but have access to land a very short drive away with none of the yahoos you meet at a range. Sometimes have to shoo the cattle out of my way but hey? So, yes, when I'm serious about bringing home meat or dispatching a varmint, the powder burner is what I grab.
What has really kept me into the air power is the quietness, not needing ear muffs/plugs. It's less work, not walking so far setting up
targets and such and the "danger area" behind where I shoot is greatly reduced. Even when I go out to the land, It's still the air gun that gets the most trigger time. I can shoot the PCP at home but I can increase distance to target as far as I dare out there

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Originally Posted by dverna

I cannot comment on velocity.

I have been told Ballistol will not diesel.

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Don: the Ballistol won't diesel in a PCP because when compressed air is released it cools. A Spring Powered Gun Compresses the air during firing so it will diesel.

Back in the day,, Micky Thompson had a Dragster that used Compressed Air in tanks to feed the engine instead of a Super Charger. They were able to get High HP (8,000HP!) without any Super Destructive Pre Ignition Nock which is what destroys those engines. With the fuels they use and compressed air from the Super Chargers "Pinging" is inevitable due to the heat of the compressed air going in. (Thus they are built to take that) This was not the case with the Air released from the tanks on board as it was super cooled during the release. NHRA outlawed his car after the first few races as they were convinced he was running pure Oxygen and his engines weren't blowing up. Never mind that Nitro Methane contains it's own oxygen. It was purely Political as he wasn't spending as much money on Engines as everyone else, and it was "different!"

PCP No diesel, Springer Diesel.

Weihrauch made a rifle based on the HW 35 gun with an added on Ether Injector that delivered one drop of Ether behind the pellet after the barrel was closed. The velocity was purported to be in excess of 1200-1400 fps for the .22 cal. version and there was a Sonic Crack during firing. The device was called the "Barracuda," and they are worth a bunch $ now if you can find one.. They were purported to be hard on the Breech Seals. But velocity higher than .22 LR was a OK trade off.

Randy

I’m shooting a bigger airgun (Texan .457) but I also have found some improvement using Ballistol. I apply it by putting some on a rag inside of a plastic bag, then lightly lubing each bullet before shooting. I also do it to keep the barrel a bit cleaner.

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Originally Posted by rbuck351

Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.

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I have one of those also, haven't had it long.
I really like mine; I use a hand pump to pump it up, not too hard.
I couldn't believe how inexpensive it was.
It seems pretty accurate to me, of course minute of pop can is good for me.

I have been using silicone oil when I do lube the pellets, but read over on AGN that the go to lube is Lemon Pledge?!

Some of them spray it on the pellets, but most spray it on a cloth then roll the pellets on the cloth so no Pledge gets inside the hollow cavity either on the front or the back end of the pellet, mostly just on the rim of the skirt and the outer edge of the head. After coating, some roll them inside a dry cloth to remove the excess Pledge. I am going to give it a try.