Mouse Fart Musing for .308W and 30 Govt?

Years ago I had a .30 Mauser Broomhandle and bought a bunch (~500) of ~93 gr .309" (no GC) lead bullets for it, but when I got married I sold my broom handle and 1911 with the 16" Herters Barrel and shoulder stock kit, for Honeymoon money. I miss that 1911.
Some 45 years later I thought, why not try these 93 grers in my Krag and Ruger 77? I also had several pounds of 700X left over from my trap shooting days in a bit of research I found that this was compatible and did some experiments to see how it would work.

The Krag wasn't so good but the 77 seemed to shoot them pretty well (under 4"@100) with no more than ~9 gr of 700x. More than that scattered them at 100 yds. Not sure if I shot them at 50 yds, maybe? It's been a while since I did this and have lost my log book.

Anyway I was thinking about duplicating this when the Covid eases up and the range opens again. (Cali is closed to almost everything now.) I think using these at 50 yds might be good to use my Old multifired brass and 700x up. Then I wondered if I had enough boolets and realized that my Krag likes fatter boolets, .310's at least. It has a new Critierion barrel so it's not a Springfield Who knows dia? bore.

A quick look at Lees moulds and realized the .32 pistol boolets might just fill the nitch. Lee advertizes that you don't need to size their boolets 'cause they come out of the mould good enough, and .312" would just about do it, even in the .308, maybe. No GC and just LLA a couple of coats and volia! Boolets! And the .312" boolets may not need the brass resized! How lazy shooters shoot!

Then I thought (always dangerous) what if I just bought .32 ACP boolets? No casting, just LLA for luck, no sizing, or GCs, no wasting good alloy for Mouse farting!

A quick calculation 4 Lb of 700X will yield over 3,000 rounds of easy shooting! Heck if I use my steel pistol target, I won't even need to go down to replace the targets!

I think I have a plan!

My 308 shoots 90 gr to 100 gr bullets great with 3.2 gr bulseye . 25 to 50 yards shoot like a match 22 lr. I use .the lee 100 gr and 90 swc gr and 93 gr sized to 311 .312 are usally tight to chamber but do shoot. I use lla or white label luge and they shoot great

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Originally Posted by Jniedbalski

My 308 shoots 90 gr to 100 gr bullets great with 3.2 gr bulseye . 25 to 50 yards shoot like a match 22 lr. I use .the lee 100 gr and 90 swc gr and 93 gr sized to 311 .312 are usally tight to chamber but do shoot. I use lla or white label luge and they shoot great

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That 314-90 swc is prob my favorite 30 Cal plinking load. I have it in 300 blk, 303 brit, 3006 and I'm sure it's do great in 308w too

Puff of pistol powder with careful attention to not make double charges....it's loads of fun

Teaching my boys on it now to get familiar with the mechanics of center fire bolt guns

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

I have used up to 6 to 7 or 8 gr of bulseye with 129 gr noe mold and the lee 160 gr tl. Also noe’s 203 gr shoot good also . If I remember correctly 7 or 8 gr was the sweet spot for the heavies. The lee 90 gr tc tl I had cut down to 81 gr for my 32 acp and it works great in that.

LGS near me sells cast pistol boolets Thought I'd see if they had any ~100 gn 32-20 boolets. Should save casting time and no alloy issues for subsonic loads. Would give me some trigger practice at 50 yds to improve my skills for cheap! 8.5 gns of 700x seemed to work best for me in the past, in 308Win. Might try it lower if the accuracy still held up. I have a rotor for my "Lil Dandy" powder measure that should throw 7.3 gr 700x. Might be good for subsonics?

I've used .32 pistol and revolver bullets as small game and indoor gallery loads for .30 cal. rifles for many years.

In the .30 M1 carbine 3.5 grains of Bullseye duplicates .32-20 factory load performance with a 100-115 grain lubricated lead bullet, or .22 WMR performance in a .223 Remington with 40-grain lubricated lead bullet.

The same 3.5 grain charge of Bullseye is the minimum charge in the 7.62x39 or .30-30 which will reliably expell a 110-grain .30 Carbine FMJ from the barrel, or a 71-77 grain .32 ACP FMJ from a .30-'06.

Using a lubricated lead cast bullet the same 3.5 grain load of Bullseye is the minimum charge which will reliably expel a 150-160-grain cast bullet from the barrel of an '06 Springfield, but outdoors in sub-freezing weather you better increase the charge a full grain to avoid unpleasant surprises.

I do not exceed 5 grains of Bullseye in the .223 Remington, .30 carbine or 7.62x39 with any bullet, but these are sufficient to reliably expel military FMJ pulls from the barrel.

In the .30-30 you can safely load up to 7.5 grains with either a 170-grain jacketed or gaschecked cast bullet.

In the .308 Win. or .30-'06 you can likewise go to 8.5 grains with either GC cast or with M118 match pulls for subsonic use with a can.

I shoot 100gr 1/2 jacket plinkers in my 30/30 & 308. In 308 at about 1200fps they will do a squirrel head out of my old Win m70/ 6x. I have 2 boxes of Hornady 90gr XTP .309”. Bought by mistake for 30cal rifles. Never got around to trying them yet. I wanted to see how fast I could run them in the 30/30. Don’t know if good idea to run these with mouse charges.

My "mouse farts" are a 110gn GC and PC'd 110gn RCBS originally for the M1 carbine. 10gn of Reddot is real good! Alternatively a 71gn 0.311" FMJ pistol boolit.

https://i.imgur.com/pP7urUP.jpg

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I use my .38 wadcutter target load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye under the 90 gr LEE TL SWC in my 30/30 .
i have a dipper I made up long ago for the pistol loads.
Also long ago I discovered that load works well in my 30/30 for plinking loads under the 77 grain, 90 grain and even the soup can 113 grain LEE cast bullet.
Different elevations of course , but I use a William's receiver sight that is easy to change elevations on when I feel like using a different bullet.
They are all accurate and fun shooting.
I move up to 3.5 grs Bullseye in the 30/06 case using the same bullets.
Again, very accurate plinking and small game loads.
I haven't shot a .22 rimfire in years.
These loads are too much fun.

With current economics, using $100+/1000 primers to save powder and lead does not make sense to me. My "mouse phart" loads require no components, case cleaning, casting, sizing or reloading. $20-40/1000 for .22 air gun pellets. But I realize that means buying another gun so it might not be an option for some folks.

If I want a reduced load, I would use a "standard" cast bullet from a mold I already have and pistol or shotgun powder...typically Promo/RD. KISS

I'm tinkering with a bunch of 115 grain FP 32-20 bullets, which I picked up at a gunshow years back for a song. Resized to .309 and propelled by a variety of ancient pistol/shotgun powders I recently acquired. I don't have "the load" just yet, but preliminary results have all been good enough for 25 yard plinking, with a suppressed Mauser. Dupont PB so far has shown the most promise.

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Originally Posted by Bad Ass Wallace

My "mouse farts" are a 110gn GC and PC'd 110gn RCBS originally for the M1 carbine. 10gn of Reddot is real good! Alternatively a 71gn 0.311" FMJ pistol boolit.

https://i.imgur.com/pP7urUP.jpg

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What I use in the tired Mauser small ring, 300 Savage... But the FMJ ACP gets 8.0 gr Red dot and clocks 1837fps
Then again.. the round ball 311 or 312 (I dont recall) at 73 grains are duplicates of 22RF at 1200 fps with 3.0 gr of Red Dot..
They both shoot to close to same POA
My 308 is always loaded with Full Power ... why not use the Savage for "FUN"

I'm still waiting for my LGS to get the ~100 gr boolets I ordered in. It's been about 3 weeks now, but in the meantime I'm processing brass and am considering drilling flash holes a set of brass for larger primers holes in the .308. I've got about 300 rounds in my rotating brass loads for it and think I'll drill a 50 rnd set of mixed commercial brass for this purpose, don't want to waste my LC match brass, though I have many in reserve still.
I also thought about buying some 170 gr PB .30-30 boolets too, for the .30-40 as the little 93 gr don't shoot well in it because the ball seat is so far out. If they wil group ~3" at 100 yds they should be good for trigger practice with the Krag's new scout scope testing with my 6"steel target.

My standard mouse fart load is 5 grs Bulseye and a NOE 120 gr 30 cal in 30/40 Krag Ruger No 3 and 30/06 in a full military 03A3. Use the same load with the NOE 105 gr 243 bullet in my Win M70 FWT. As noted at 25 yards or so accurate enough for head shots on squirrels. The load is subsonic in all three rifles.

Still waiting for the LGS to come thru, but right now I'm processing brass to load. Found I had a bunch of boolets sized and GC'd so I just need to prep and prime my brass. Did a bunch of .44s today, after I finish the .44s I'll get on to the 200 or so .30s. I only have about 500 Large Pistol primers and ~1900 Large Rifle primers so I'm probably good for this summer.

Still waiting on the LGS to get the boolets in, but was processing the last of my 308 and .30-4- brass today and got out the .30 Mauser boolets. Come out find out they are .312" 83 gr, and not 93 gr! Gonna load up with 7.5 to 8.5 gr of 700X in the .308, not drilling the flash holes yet. I gota lube them with LLA 'cause the grease lube on them is ~50 years old!

Still no luck getting the 32-20 boolets, but was thinking about using some of the 170 gr pb .30-30 boolets I have left for Moose Phart loads with 700x or Unique at 1000 fps? The 170s might just work in the Krag to give me some trigger practice. The 312-160-2Rs need Gas Checks to shoot well, although I haven't tried them at subsonic w/o GCs. Hummm?

I'm not into casting yet, so use these .32-20's in my plinkers.

https://www.brazosprecision.com/32-2...llet_p_36.html

Out of the bag in the Enfield and Mosin. Thru a .310 sizer in the 03A3, M1916 Mauser, and .30 Carbine. Somewhere between 6/7g of HP38 in the big cases.

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Originally Posted by TankerDon

I'm not into casting yet, so use these .32-20's in my plinkers.

https://www.brazosprecision.com/32-2...llet_p_36.html

Out of the bag in the Enfield and Mosin. Thru a .310 sizer in the 03A3, M1916 Mauser, and .30 Carbine. Somewhere between 6/7g of HP38 in the big cases.

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Thanks TankerDon.
I ordered some just now. Now if primers will come down in price I can get some trigger practice in on the cheap! I checked out their .38s and .44s too I'll order some .44s for sure.

Noticed that these will be PC'd andI've never shot PC'd boolets, so it's a two'fer!:bigsmyl2:

Every time I read ‘mouse fart’ in a post, I have wondered for measurements ... has anyone ever measured the velocity of the fart and the decibel reading of noise they want to achieve .. :coffeecom

I haven't Chrony'd them but will, I didn't notice much less noise from them but will pay more attention as I try to reduce the loads to subsonic. They weren't as loud as Hi Vel .22s though.

17 grains of 2400 and about 1700 fps are my light loads for .308. Reloading a bottle neck case seems like too much work for so little effect.

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Originally Posted by Cosmic_Charlie

17 grains of 2400 and about 1700 fps are my light loads for .308. Reloading a bottle neck case seems like too much work for so little effect.

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???

No more work than straight-walled unless you're talking about a little lube and a trip through the tumbler to clean it off. Not a ton of effort IMO.

Try upping the charge to 20 gr and see if you can get 2000 fps with a 155-160-170 gr boolet. I've done it and it worked even more accurately! A slower powder works too.

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Originally Posted by racepres

the round ball 311 or 312 (I dont recall) at 73 grains are duplicates of 22RF at 1200 fps with 3.0 gr of Red Dot..

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I can get the FPS of the 130's if Interested

At long last I got word today that my 120 gr 32-20 boolets have shipped and should be here Monday! I have 50 rnds prepped for them and will load the first trials with 700X and Unique. These will come sized for .312 and I'll try some there and some resized to .311".

These are BB and coated with Hi-Tek so that will be interesting, too.

Well the 32-20 boolets showed up today. They look really cool with thier gold Hy-Teck coating but they seem to be sized .315" at the base. It's too hot today to try resizing them, I'll have to wait until later tonight to get to the bench.

They are supposed to be 13-15 BHN so hopefully they will size w/o over stressing my little RCBS Jr press.
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19:00 hrs I went down to size a few of the 32-20s and they sized alright in the .311 die. It was stil too hot to spend much time but at least I found out they did Okay.

21:00 Hrs cool enough to try to size a hundred or so and maybe in the morning load some Pharts.

https://i.imgur.com/uPj90NK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fzOiOdM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cDvxPmy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PB5RNL2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mpY6A0W.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0LR49yA.jpg

Goofy - Very nice. Will try same with the 311041. What's the RB data?

I finished resizing a couple of hundred 32-20s (2-3 lbs) today to .311" and will load up some .308's this evening after it cools down. The boolets look good and seem to be well cast. I'm going to just use my lil' Dandy to drop the 700x charges and Chrony them on Tuesday. I want to see how 7-9 gr's 700x will work with low effort loading.

I will weigh and dribble the first 20 or so to get a base line for ES and Velocities. but will just double clang and drop the last 30 or so. I was thinking on using them in .308 but may use them in the Krag to see if these short boolets will work in the long throat. No use taking three rifles to the range as I'm using the .223 & Krag for Scope setup and the .308 might shorten the cases with low pressure loads. Humm???
Goofy: WHat is that short round? It looks like a shortened .30-40 X1.5"?

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Originally Posted by 725

Goofy - Very nice. Will try same with the 311041. What's the RB data?

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https://i.imgur.com/rZgILkb.jpg

CCI 500 primers, 20 yards, Hornady .310" round balls w/light smear of SPG lube

1.5 gr Bullseye, Avg 719 fps .79" for 5 shots
1.8 gr Bullseye, Avg 881 fps .73" for 5 shots
1.5 gr Red Dot, Avg 873 fps 1.45" for 5 shots
1.5 gr 700X, Avg 913 fps .82" for 5 shots

Early this morning I loaded 50 rnds of .30-40 with 7.6-8.6 & 9.6 gr of 700x and the 120 gr Gold boolets. I going to take them out in the morning and shoot them to see how high/low the velocity is, and accuracy too. I'm expecting to see ~1,400 fps, so not exactly subsonics. I loaded them long as I could, just putting the lower drive band (approx .300" seating in the case) in the case and tried to get the same leadup to the lands as my 160 gr Lees.

I've got to sight in the 2x scout scope first, so I'm using the 312-1602Rs and 25 gr IMR-4198 as the sighters and then see where the 120's will land?

Thanks

Just checked the weather forecast and it's supposed to be 78 degrees by noon, wind 6-10 mph SSE. High of 82 by 4 o'clock. I need to load up the car and get to the range early to set up the Chrony and stuff. This is only the second time for me shooting in ~five years.

I limited myself to 150 rounds of .223 and .30 Govt. so as not to get a sore shoulder.:bigsmyl2:

If by mouse fart you mean quiet, you want the heaviest bullet possible with a light powder charge. If you mean light lead charges to use less lead that is just a light load, may or may not be quiet.

Well, mixed results today at the range. Good news the 32-20 boolets shot pretty well at 50 yds, looks like 8.6 gr 700x was a good load, not subsonic but light and good for trigger control practice. I was able to check the 7.6 gr load on the Crony, but Bad News, it stopped working when I switched it off and back on. I thought the battery was gone so changed it, but still no joy! Avg 1422 fps 18 SD.

My trigger control is getting better and if I concentrated on a smooth let off, got some good groups with the 120's and 8.6 gr load.

I got the 2x scout scope set up and ~zeroed at 50 yards. I got the Ruger scope leveled and zeroed at 50 so that was good too.

I only shot about 50 rounds and found a couple of brass problems. The Krag had a problem with primary extraction on some of the 160 gr Lee and 25 gr 4198 loads. Like the necks were sticking in the chamber. I had to whack the bolt handle pretty hard to get the case to extract.??? Once I got the cases out, they rechambered fine and extracted easy? I've just been neck sizing them and may have to do a FL resize next load cycle. Like the powder residue on the necks was sticking in the chamber. I'll clean the chamber well this evening to see if that helps.

The .223 had a problem in chambering some rounds and it looked like the cases need FL resizing, The base of the necks seemed to be a bit long. That brass lot had been fired a bunch of times and mostly neck sized. I shot this same lot of brass last week and did not have this problem, but the load was -1gr under max and it is Mil LC brass so that may be a factor?

Still not a bad day at the range. Have lots of ammo left to check Velo's if I can get the Crony working again. I'll use my springer pellet gun to check it and see if all the connections are good, This week.

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Originally Posted by 725

Thanks

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To be clear, the round ball loads and 311041 targets were shot with a wildcat I call the .30 Sneezer. It's a .357 case necked to .30 caliber and has approximately the same case volume as a .30 Carbine.

I do shoot the 311041 in a .30-30 as well, but with a bit more powder as you might imagine. Target below reflects a minor amount of load work at the 50 yard line.

https://i.imgur.com/upvGZ9n.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jmQScof.jpg

The combo shoots reasonably well in the 1,200=1,400 fps range and is a pleasure to plink with.

Last night I cleaned up the Krag and found NO leading from the other day. Bore was smooth and no streaks at all.
The 120 gr boolets shot like a .22 short and I could feel the trigger let off with out the recoil interfering at all. Made me smile.

I'm going to try reloading 10 of the spent 7.6 gr shells with about 5.0 gr of 700x to see how much lower velocity will be. The 120's shot about 3" lower at 50 than the "Full power" 160 gr loads.

Hopefully I can get the Chrony working again. I'm too cheap (broke) to buy a new one.

I Had 20 rnds expended so I loaded 120's,10 ea with 4.0 gn and 10 ea with 5.0gn 700x exactly, to see if I can get sub sonic.

I'll work on the Chrony this weekend to see if I can get it working.