Moving up to 45-70 since 356 Win is a failure with cast?

After following the thread about the failure of cast lead projectiles in the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore in .356 Win that my wife has been using for years for deer hunting, I am going to move her up to a Browning 1885 in 45-70, but don't have much time left to develop loads before deer season. I have two RCBS molds for this round. Both of them gas checked with one a 300 grain and the other one a 500 grain. Both of them flat nosed for good deer killing power. So, which one would give her good deer killing power and a couple of hundred yard range? She sometimes sits out on the front porch and shoots the deer down the hill in front of the house out into the soy bean fields.

300 gr would be good on deer but with not much time to practice
and develop a load I would keep the range of 200 yds much closer
I have been using a 425 gr boolit in mine but I practice @ 100 yds

just give her back her rifle.

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

just give her back her rifle.

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What he said^^^

If it ain't broke why try to fix it. If she has had success with it in prior years , how can reading how much of a failure it is change your mind? I am of course assuming( I know I know assumption ) that she has been using cast boolits prior to your newly found knowledge. Just my .02 - CASTER

I would let her shoot what she has been and has been reliable with .. If you must switch go with the 300 grain and yes keep it 200 and below till she has plenty of practice

356 is a decent cartridge I know I wouldn't want to get shot by one I shoot 45/70 also and it would probably be cheaper to shoot the 356 than go for the 45/70 but that's your prerogative the missus might not be fond of the kick of the 45/70 either.

So if I'm understanding this correctly; your wife has experience, practice, and confidence in taking big game with this particular Win94 BB.

But you want her to shoot CB's instead, so you're having her change to a Browning 1885?

Reread the 356 thread, find what was done to fix the "failure", buy a RCBS 200 mold or an NOE copy, slug the barrel, size to fit, select a proper alloy and lube. Or let her keep killing deer with jacketed. If you need a bigger gun than a 356 for Deer in the US, well "I'm from Missouri, show me".

Deer: If you can't kill it with the .356, the .45-70 won't get it done either.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel4k

So if I'm understanding this correctly; your wife has experience, practice, and confidence in taking big game with this particular Win94 BB.

But you want her to shoot CB's instead, so you're having her change to a Browning 1885?

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About 25 years ago when I bought the 356, I also bought 500 new, empty cases and one box of 100, 220 grain Speer jacketed bullets for it. And I loaded up all 100 of them and now she is running out. Over the last 20 years I have converted almost all of my shooting to cast lead projectiles. And of course the first molds I bought were for the 45-70, which I deer hunted with using open sights. The 356 has a scope on it so my wife did well shooting it all these years. Recently I put a scope on the 45-70 to get it ready to shoot deer at the longer ranges out over the soy bean fields we have here. Then when the 356 failures came up for long distance shooting, I didn't buy the mold I was looking at (RCBS 220 grain flat nose). Of course I could just buy another box of those Speer 220 grain jacketed bullets and she would be set for another 20 years? She killed the biggest ever buck on our farm at 220 yards from her deer stand with that 356 and Speer bullets.

Me thinks our legs are being jerked upon!

I do know this......if I tried taking my wife's pet handgun or rifle away from her--or mucked around with her ammo selections that she does well with--my little Spaniard would commence an Inquisition that would put Savonarola in the shade. Only a woman's weight is a more dangerous place to go. I think Ric might have the winning entry, though.

11 posts before the cat was out of the bag. Well played,,,,,

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Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL

I do know this......if I tried taking my wife's pet handgun or rifle away from her--or mucked around with her ammo selections that she does well with--my little Spaniard would commence an Inquisition that would put Savonarola in the shade. Only a woman's weight is a more dangerous place to go. I think Ric might have the winning entry, though.

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Ever since I got married she has hunted deer with that rifle because it was light for her to carry, easy to work, had a pretty good Leopold scope on it, and just "fit" her well. But all of these years I also read lots of articles about the "best" caliber for cast lead projectiles was always the 358 Win or the 356 Win cartridges (basically the 356 is a rimmed 358 and use the same reloading dies). So, when she finally ran out of jacketed bullets, I had my mind set on moving on to cast lead projectiles for it. But since the lead projectiles have some limits that I am willing to live with, and she my not be, I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use. That is if she will let me play with "her" rifle. Although I do have another one of these rifles that I bought at the same time as the 356, in 307 Win. I have never fired lead projectiles through that one either. But it doesn't have a scope. Mmmm!

Buy another 100 jacketed and let her keep killing deer. The cost won't kill you at the rate of expenditure.

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Originally Posted by DonMountain

[...] I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use. [...]

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If you are shopping around for additional quantities of those Speer 220's, feel free to PM me - I have a pretty good stash and could easily sell an unopened box or two.

Or do I get banned for trafficking in JSP's here on CB ? ;)

I don't know what to do! Seems like I wasted a good amount of time these past few months putting a load together for my Marlin 336ER to kill the indestructible Whitetail.
I hope my 12 year old will let me use his 7mm-08 that he has piled up deer with shooting 120grn Sierra and 60% loads of H4895.

https://www.natchezss.com/speer-hot-...pfn-50-ct.html

DO NOT mess with success
If Mama ain't happy, no body happy !!!

Mike

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Originally Posted by waksupi

Me thinks our legs are being jerked upon!

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Agreed! First thing I thought when I read the OP....

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

I had my mind set on moving on to cast lead projectiles for it. But since the lead projectiles have some limits that I am willing to live with, and she my not be, I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use.

Well DUH!

It is her rifle, she is happy with it
Leave it be.
LIFE will likely be MUCH easier if you shoot lead til the cows come home in your gun and work on a load for next year in the 356, or just leave well enough alone.
Jus sayin

Figure out how many more years you wish to remain married an buy the needed speer bullets to cover that time frame

I am thinking at this point you have made such a faux pas in choices that the only way forward is to purchase Hornady stock and in the wifes name :) :)

Practice with easy shooting cast, maybe a box or two of jacketed for hunting every couple years in the 356. 180 Speer's, 200 Sierra's, 200 Hornady's - all good DEER bullets in the 356.

I think you ought quit screwing around and let your wife try this out. Well proven to be very effective.

Attachment 205386

That main gun doesn't leave much of the deer to eat! I have chased deer on a range with the 0.50 spotting rifle. Pretty hard to hit one unless it stays still long enough. The booms did not really scare them like I thought they would.
PS we did not kill any deer. Against army rules and range rules. We did get in trouble for scaring them.

Ed C

The 358 I had shot a 35-250 at 2100 fps inside a quarter at 100 with a case full of I4350 @2100 fps I can't imagine NEEDING much more than that although that bullet has a lousy BC it ought to be ok out to 200 yd for Roosevelt elk .
If you absolutely need it to shoot flatter you might want to try 35 XCB .

The 45-70 at 1000 FPS with the 500 grain is easy shove for recoil and accurate to boot. That boolit will traverse a deer lengthwise.

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Originally Posted by DonMountain

Ever since I got married she has hunted deer with that rifle because it was light for her to carry, easy to work, had a pretty good Leopold scope on it, and just "fit" her well. But all of these years I also read lots of articles about the "best" caliber for cast lead projectiles was always the 358 Win or the 356 Win cartridges (basically the 356 is a rimmed 358 and use the same reloading dies). So, when she finally ran out of jacketed bullets, I had my mind set on moving on to cast lead projectiles for it. But since the lead projectiles have some limits that I am willing to live with, and she my not be, I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use. That is if she will let me play with "her" rifle. Although I do have another one of these rifles that I bought at the same time as the 356, in 307 Win. I have never fired lead projectiles through that one either. But it doesn't have a scope. Mmmm!

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What are these "limits" you speak of?

Jerry

356 failure? You're doing something wrong. But that obviously doesn't matter. Buy more jacketed bullets, load them up and move on w/ life. They should last a good long time so why mess w/ success?

My 356 doted on Speer 180 fn and a book maximum of AA2015 for +2700 fps. It was death on whitetails.

A few years back I had a pair of Marlin 336ER's both as I'm sure you know we're chambered for the 356 WIN . Why two you may ask ? One was a dedicated jacketed bullet rifle and the other a dedicated cast bullet rifle . The jacketed gun as you may well assume did very nicely on Whitetail she with factory and handloads . The cast bullet rifle also did nicely with the RCBS 35-200 , but it's favorite projectile was Ranch Dogs first shot at a 35 cal bullet the RD 359-180GC , I used that bullet in the gun to kill several deer .

Good morning
Why would you take away a perfectly good bean eater basher going to a lowly 45-70 when you can go whole hog and whollop them corn crunchers with a 50-100 ! Where is your luv ?????
Mike in Peru

Have you considered just getting a different wife?

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Originally Posted by waksupi

Have you considered just getting a different wife?

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She may get a new husband if he takes her favorite gun away [emoji6]

I really think the lady needs a 270, then the bean fields won't seem so big!

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Originally Posted by waksupi

Have you considered just getting a different wife?

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A very expensive process, that. There are few things like poverty to instruct lessons on humility and moderation.

replacing one that shoots a 356 in a lever gun is gonna be pretty tough.

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

replacing one that shoots a 356 in a lever gun is gonna be pretty tough.

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So you're saying one that shoots a 45-70 would be easier to find?

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Originally Posted by White Oak

I don't know what to do! Seems like I wasted a good amount of time these past few months putting a load together for my Marlin 336ER to kill the indestructible Whitetail.
I hope my 12 year old will let me use his 7mm-08 that he has piled up deer with shooting 120grn Sierra and 60% loads of H4895.

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Only quoted this because because my cousin's daughter (yes I know she's my cousin too) has just recently grew out of her Hodgdon youth load in 7mm-08 that she's been using since old enough to shoot.

I used the Sierra 115gr HP for her. I honestly have lost track of how many deer she has put down with that load. It's been one or two or more a year for like 8 years. Never lost one. :)

Motor