Looking to see what people are using and their results. What brand mold, caliber, A.G. used, twist rate, best velocity for accuracy, used straight from the mold or sized?
TIA!
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Looking to see what people are using and their results. What brand mold, caliber, A.G. used, twist rate, best velocity for accuracy, used straight from the mold or sized?
TIA!
This should be interesting and rather short. I looked into casting .22 pellets over a year ago and realized it was silly. I bought 14K pellets for $175. They group less than an inch at 50 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by IMADMAN
14k 16 gr pellets will require 32 lbs of lead that has a value of $40. The mold will cost about $125. If you can cast 700/hr it will take you 200 hours. Assume no sorting and no lubing. So, after making 14k of these things you will save $10 for 200 hours of effort and I am willing to bet $100 that unsorted cast pellets will not group as well as my cheap factory pellets.
Now, say you decide you will shoot 28K pellets. Savings would be $350 minus cost of lead ($80) and mold ($125). You can sell the mold for $95 so you have saved $240 on 28K pellets and it only took 400 hours. LOL
But the real problem is....what if you gun does not "like" the pellet your mold produces? That will really suck but it is very possible. It is cheap and easy to find a good factory pellet your gun likes.
Casting .177 or .22 pellets makes no sense. They are too inexpensive.
It might be worthwhile to cast for .30 cal and larger as those pellets are costly, but very few air gunners do a lot of pinking with the larger bores. Unless you have a compressor keeping the bigger guns aired up gets to be a bother.
After putting thousands of pellets downrange here are my conclusions:
A good quality airgun is mucho fun. It will make you a better shot and keep you tuned up for cheap, cheap, cheap....IF you stay with .177 and .22 cal and buy pellets on sale.
Unless you situation precludes using a .22 RF for small game hunting and pest eradication, it is silly to use an airgun. Pellets lose velocity too quickly and are very sensitive to wind. If I had to hunt with an airgun, I would get a .25 or .30 cal and use factory pellets/slugs, but do all my training with .177 or .22.
.25 cal pellets are about $25/300 ($.08 ea). .30 cal are about double the cost.
I bought .177's for $6/500 and .22's for $6.24/500 last year after doing a lot of testing.
I do not know anyone who casts .177 or .22 pellets that gets results worth the effort. It will be interesting to see other responses.
I can see where you are coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
I have 1 .22 that favors heavy stuff.
a few .25's and a few .30's. As for the larger stuff I pretty much got them covered as the molds are typically easier and cheaper to come by.
Also finding anything .25 cal or larger locally is almost impossible if not down right expensive.
I cast a lot of fishing weights and find it enjoyable.
For everything in my backyard .177, .22 and .25 pellets work just fine. I would never consider trying to cast any of these.
Even the .25s are not "that" expensive and I'm the one that is too cheap to by a compressor, so far.
So far, I have not tried to figure out what works best in my air guns, Everything I have tried works acceptably for what I want so far.
The real only ammo issue I've had is with an Umarex MP-40 submachine gun CO2 BB gun, it does not like Crosman BBs, finally ordered some Umarex BBs and it actually works with those.
The Umarex MP-40 is an awesome reproduction of the original MP-40 German WWII buzz gun. It's only good for chewing up aluminum soft drink cans but for someone in their second childhood it's great.
I wouldn't be able to afford the real thing, let alone shoot it.
I shoot .177 pelets, flat target stile, target grade up to and including olimpic grade, last time i ordered pellets they cam in at about $3.00 for 500 dilevered, if i remember corect the order was for maybe 30,000 pellets? I shoot between 50 too 500 a day, every day.
My airgun challenge, albeit at only but 10 meters, is to employ an el cheapo C02 air rifle -- the Crosman 1022 12-shot repeater -- at endeavoring to get that second shot on a flying soda pop can -- spring released by first shot at target -- and now flying in air. (Targets can be seen at https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017700769 ). The airgun, at less than $80 U S dollars is incredibly accurate and repeatable, as well as affordable as I generally get an afternoon's fun from two C02 cartridges. I do not count pellets, but even if cast ones were cheaper than the bulk Crosman's -- the time and effort surely would negate the savings. This spring, I ran a couple of Ballistol patches through the barrel -- 1st time, ever "cleaned", and they came out barely stained. NOT a target arm, nor target ammo -- but one huge pile of fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by BLAHUT
geo
14,000 / 700 = 20 hrs., not 200.... just sayin'....
Bob
I think I need to get this!Quote:
Originally Posted by georgerkahn
I have a Daisy CO2 M14 semi-auto.
yes tones of fun, i had spring guns, wore them out, 10 meters, try for all through the same hole, the x ring at 10 meters for air rifle is the size of this period (.) now two Olympic grade air rifles two Olympic grade air pistols have a couple cheaper air rifles, well cheaper compared to the others, all Numatec or pre compressed. i run two to six felt cleaning pellet, two at a time, with a couple drops kroil down the barrel after each tin of 500 pellets.Quote:
Originally Posted by georgerkahn
Cannot believe I made such a stupid error. That has a dramatic impact on economics. Savings jump from $.05/hr to $.50/hr.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsterne
I will stay with store bought pellets.
elmacgyver0 -- I was reaaalllly skeptical re the Crosman 1022, primarily due to its unbelievably low price. The plastic version was going for ~$69 USD, and the wood-stocked for ~$89! I bought mine -- the wood version -- on a sale which included a carton of 25 CO2 cartridges thrown in, and reckoned I have spent more $$$ on tickets to a Broadway show I did not enjoy... so, why not? The BIG surprise, to me, was it emulates the old Timex commercials -- in spite of whatever "lickin'" -- it keeps on ticking! Doing a very rough guess, since I've had it, I put more than 400 (easily!) pellets down its barrel -- with nary even a single hitch! Shortly after I bought it, and became delighted, I purchased a second -- a gift-to-use for visitors at camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by elmacgyver0
At the time, a fellow had invented the rocket-launchers, and was fabricating them in his garage. :) I bought and have maybe six...
The favourite "game" we play is two persons at ready, and the designated shooter hits the disk below, with the other person now having the soda pop can airborne to try and hit it. An extra point is scored by designated shooter if (s)he, too, can get a shot in can while still airborne as well. (To be 100% truthful, I've succeeded too few times to even come close to bragging rights with this 2nd shot) BUT -- it sure is 110% pure fun!!!
One of the bestest (sic) moments was a University Politics professor (a very close friend) who came to camp110% anti-gun in any shape size or form. After watching me hit the plate and send cans flying a few times, he -- with much hesitation -- asked if he could try. Lonnng story short: I ran out of CO2 cartridges at camp, or -- he'd probably still be there.
The rocket targets -- seeing MidwayUSA's prices -- seem to have gone crazy-expensive. BUT -- even at this price -- if I lost mine -- "Yup!" -- I'd buy replacements.
geo
In all honesty, i shoot a LOT.
Have been giving thought to a 25 mold, but that primarily as i´ve run into "puffs" that seem to crave larger dimensions/diameter boolits.
A pack of 218´s is showing up within an hr though and if that checks out.. no mold. I see no reason to, and then be aware that i cast LOADS for my various blackpowder and modern rifles and handguns.
The 218´s to show up are all the "new" H&N "heavy" offerings in 22 cal. Ranging from 30 to 40 grains. Going to be a hoot trying them out, which i´ll at first be doing indoors @ a mere 20 yards approx.
Lately though i´ve run into a few 22cal guns that have their barrels on the large side. Don´t know why this is. Brings that the one Reximex Throne Gen 2 here shoots rather well with the also "new" JSB 33,9 grain pellets (which they really are not - die hard pellets that is) while 216 slugs are like the payload from a scattergun while 217´s at least hand me a grouping (like 1,5" at 20 meters)
As stated. An air rifle is very much about what you feed it, fudder, and as such it often pays off to try as many different pills as your application calls for.
To have a 22cal PCP replace a 22 rimfire? Sure. Just.. sure, cause the evolution going on has led to this. We´re there so to say.
But as this is turning out i for one can only see one net result here and that is that the various small caliber PCP´s truly have become an alternative to the 22 rimfire.
Molds for it though? I doubt it to be honest. Fail to see the point even, seeing the cost of tins and that no matter if pellets or slugs.
I only plan to cast for 30 cal and larger for the present. The 30 cal slugs at 10 cents each cost more than 22 LR ammo in many cases. I took the plunge into air guns mainly to reduce the cost of ammo. Most of my 22 Cal airguns like the slightly more than 1 cent each Crosman CPHP or the 2.x cent Meisterkuglen so I am covered there. No point in casting pellets, though I might try casting slugs later. The BIG bore slugs are more than some loaded centerfire rounds at $1+ each and they are almost all CAST rather than Swaged anyway!
I just bought a Umarex Gantlet 30 and will be playing around starting next week with cast slugs using an NOE 300-55-HP-BY6 55 grain hollow point. I have seen reports of this mold dropping within a 0.3 grain range and producing sub MOA groups at 60 yards. We shall see.
Update: The NOE slugs are shooting quite well out of the Gauntlet 30. The group on the right was 7 shots with the smaller hollow point pin. The one on the left is the "control" group, 5 shots, 44.8 grain FX/JSB Pellets - both at 16 yards which is the max I can get indoors. Too cold to shoot outside this past week. The deeper hollow point pin NOE shoots about the same in the Gauntlet, but the flat tip pin seems to open groups up a bit.
Attachment 306059
My next bigger bore airgun will probably be at least 45 cal for which I already have a couple of molds that might work with it.
I lucked out last week with a call to the nearest scrap yard that will sell lead and picked up 460 pounds of roofing and X-Ray room lead sheets. I think 600 pounds will last me until I croak at 60 grains per bullet.
I use shop bought pellets, mainly in .22. In terms of brands I go for JSB, then H&N and then RWS. Several other brands are just rebranded JSBs or H&Ns.
JSB exact are really good, as are the JSB Hades hollow points. I also really like the .22 18 grain H&N Barracuda pellets.
I can't cast pellets as good as bought ones.
I think it would be difficult to cast 17 and 22 cal pellets that shoot along with even the lower cost factory stuff. Never tried, not interested in trying. Swaging would probably be the way to go with the 17 and 22 cal.
On larger bore stuff, for me it is worth the time spent. I cast the 30 cal slugs and in some guns they do quite well compared to factory stuff, as shown in my post above. An RTI 30 cal didn't like them but a Gauntlet and an FX both shoot very close in accuracy, sometimes better than the JSBs. The cost difference is pretty big in 30 cal cast vs factory slugs. 10 to 20 cents each for factory, free to not more than 1.4 cents each if I have to buy the lead from Seabrook.
The 22 cal pellets can be shot in a .223 using a primer and a grain or two of bullseye.
The heavier grain pellets use less lead than a Bullet for casting yet they lose velocity and drop vs a lead bullet that travels hundreds of yards increasing the danger zone.
16 grs vs 45 or 55 grain bullet.
Cast pellet provides a safer alternative, but only for a reloader.9⁹
Guy that doesn't reload or cast pellets can only shooton a range or deep woods safely.
Again, be sure of your backstop before you shoot.
I cast 17 and 22 caliber pellets easily and successfully.They are accurate.
The molds need to be preheated on a hotplate before they fill out and make good accurate pellets.
Not hard, but same technique as used to cast .22 and .32 bullets for pistol.
Molds are large compared to pellets and small bullets so they have to be kept hot .
Have fun!
I suppose if someone did not have an air gun, using pellets in a .223 might make sense. With primers going for north of $70/k it seems an expensive way to shoot mouse fart loads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alferd Packer
Please elaborate on "accuracy". What is the average of ten 5 shot groups at 50 yards with cast .22 pellets?
I have to agree with Don Verna's post #2.
But had to try it out to come to his conclusion.
I bought a NOE 25 caliber mold, cleaned, and seasoned it, then after 4 break-in sessions started shooting the better pellets, at this point less than 20% had skirts that looked good enough to weigh sort. after weighing about 5% were shooters. They did not shoot very good.
The rifle shoots JSB exact very well.
JSB Hades shoot well in my rifle too.
Casting pellets brings in some complications the thin skirt, the need for more heat, repeatable pouring. the small quantity of lead going in the mold.
Those problems all can be dealt with, but pyramyd air's buy 4 pay for 3 plan pellet sales, and 150 dollar free shipping makes pellets pretty cheap if you can order enough at one time.
Most of the casting problems are much less with the larger calibers.
You need to run the mold very hot to get the skirts to fill out properly.... The best results are using a ladle with a nose on it and pressure pouring....
Bob
Will your cast pellets group less than 1” for five consecutive groups at 50 yards? Without visual inspection or weight sorting. That is the level of performance with commercial pellets.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsterne
I would bet that if Bob is doing it, they meet or more likely exceed store bought pellets.
That is about their performance.... I visually inspect every pellet or bullet I cast and throw the culls back in the pot, I never size pellets (but I do with bullets, if required).... Sometimes I weigh either at the beginning, culling out any that are significantly lighter as they must have voids, at least until I understand how the mould is working.... If I get a lot of weight difference it is because my casting technique needs work.... In other words, I go through a quality control stage, just like commercial manufacturers would....
The last time I was shooting at 100 yards my cast .30 cal and .35 cal pellets outshot the JSBs, and had a significantly higher BC to boot.... 8-)
Bob
Told ya! Nice work Bob.