Curses on banansa

I was enjoying a delicious pizza and watching one of the so called lost episodes when Ben Cartwright grabs a '92 Winchester by the end of the barrel and wraps it around a rock . It was a very nice rifle in either 38-40 or 44-40. You can tell that by looking at the front barrel band. If the band goes around the barrel it is one of the two. The 32-20 and 25-20 used a band that was milled into the barrel and only held the magazine. The upper and lower tang were mangled and the stock was shattered. Almost took my appetite away. Almost, after all it was a delicious pizza.

Lorne Greene was anti-gun.

ya The believe "Italian "repo" industry started in 1959 and was just a few pistols. Most likely anything you see in oldies was the real deal. '92s Win were plentiful and cheap back then.

I made a mistake, not that it matters but it was Adam not Ben that destroyed the '92. Parnell Roberts got tired of playing the same role year after year and gave up a big check every week to go out on his own, emote and disappear from view. The other three actors rode it out to the end.

My understanding is that most of the prop guns that got treated roughly were cheap Spanish copies.

I read in a western mag that The Rifleman used a cheep reproduction to kick around the dirt and saved the nice modified Winchester for close up shots. The article also stated that many of the Colts and Winchesters had been refinished several times, they were considered props not collectables at that time.

Dave

I read somewhere that because of Greenes feelings about guns the characters never had any type of fake cartridges in their gunbelts. Watch closely, it`s true.Robert

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Originally Posted by GOPHER SLAYER

I was enjoying a delicious pizza and watching one of the so called lost episodes when Ben Cartwright grabs a '92 Winchester by the end of the barrel and wraps it around a rock .

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If memory serves me rightly it was an early western set in the immediate post-Civil War period, which would make that an interesting trick if they could do it. Still, even Conan the Barbarian had an aluminium duplicate of his sword for the faster moments, and he was a Republican.

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Originally Posted by FergusonTO35

My understanding is that most of the prop guns that got treated roughly were cheap Spanish copies.

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I know that but the Spanish had different rear sights. When MGM sold off all their props. Martin Redding bought most if not all the guns. He had a gun shop a short distance from the studio. In his shop he had rows of guns used in films and many were stamped El Tigre which is the name the Spanish gave them. They were sold through out central and South America. All were chambered in 44-40. Some were junk and some were pretty good but none of them compared to a Winchester. A club member gave me one that was pure junk. It was made of very soft steel and the chamber had extreme head space. When I shot it, the case separated in the chamber. A gun smith wielded a piece of steel to the front of the bolt, turned it down and it worked ok. I soon traded the piece of junk to someone else. Another give-a-way in spotting an El Tigre is the fact that most if not all had a sling swivel attached to the forward barrel band on the forend. I have no trouble telling the difference, even on film.

Spanish firearm quality is more variable than Belgian, even. Some, such as the 1930s swing-out Smith and Wesson copies were rated about equal with the originals by Smith and Wesson. But the bottom of the market was atrocious, without even the safety that a reliable proof system about guarantees in an unimpaired Belgian gun. Those made for the South American market, where the main purpose of a small-calibre revolver was often to take an adversary's eye off the knife for a vital split second, were often the worst.

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Originally Posted by GOPHER SLAYER

I was enjoying a delicious pizza and watching one of the so called lost episodes when Ben Cartwright grabs a '92 Winchester by the end of the barrel and wraps it around a rock . It was a very nice rifle in either 38-40 or 44-40. You can tell that by looking at the front barrel band. If the band goes around the barrel it is one of the two. The 32-20 and 25-20 used a band that was milled into the barrel and only held the magazine. The upper and lower tang were mangled and the stock was shattered. Almost took my appetite away. Almost, after all it was a delicious pizza.

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Actually, if the front band goes around the barrel, with a rear ban around the forestock & barrel, it is simply a carbine, irrespective of caliber.

If the magazine is held by a ring dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel, and no rear band it is a "rifle", again, irrespective of caliber.
Attachment 191300

BTW, it was "Bonanza", light drama as entertainment... not deep social commentary. (Insert favored naval expletive & a smiley-face here)!

Hop Sing cook good!

BB

It has been many years since I owned a '92 but I at one time I owned six of them. I was wondering if in the picture you shared if any of the carbines were in 25-20 or 32-20? I seem to remember that there was enough meat at the end of the barrel to insert a dove tail for those two calibers. I could be mistaken, I have been before. My older brother has a beautiful little carbine in 25-20 that I sold him for a whopping hundred bucks about forty years ago. I would call and ask him but he is getting around with the help of a walker and he would have to go down a small flight of stairs to get to the gun safe so I wont bother to call him. I know that all the rifles had the dove tail at the fore end of the barrel. Light drama or not, Parnel Roberts destroyed a nice '92 carbine. The series was stupid anyway and bore not the slightest resemblance to actual ranch life, then or now. They spent all their time either helping total strangers or getting out of a murder charge in some distant little town. Of course Hoss & Little Joe were going to town for supplies in every show. You might ask, then why bother to watch it. I like to see the horses, guns & to have something to complain about.

Hoss got kid napped a lot and little Joe it seems was always getting shot or a head injury

Correct ranch life or not, it beat the hell out of watching the simpsons, or many other offerings we have for choices these days. lol

And if you were a female love interest of any of the Cartwright's the episode didn't end well for you.

I get sick too when they are told to "Drop your gun" and they actually drop them.

Any gun that was ruined was following the script, blame the writers as well.

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Originally Posted by nagantguy

Hoss got kid napped a lot and little Joe it seems was always getting shot or a head injury

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He was lucky they didn't hit him in a vital spot. I don't remember if it figures in that series or not, but there was quite a vogue for the apparently shot hero lurching to his feet muttering "They only creased me." Surgeon-Colonel La Garde was quite specific about bullet grazes of the skull. He said he would normally trephine a small disc from the skull with a holesaw, to make sure dislodged flakes hadn't damaged the brain or dura mater membrane. He didn't do that just for fun.

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Originally Posted by Half Dog

I get sick too when they are told to "Drop your gun" and they actually drop them.

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I recall an episode of Paladin where he was told to drop his gun by a bad guy. He said " You can have it, but I'm not going to drop it, and you keep it clean."

Way to go!

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Originally Posted by scattershot

I recall an episode of Paladin where he was told to drop his gun by a bad guy. He said " You can have it, but I'm not going to drop it, and you keep it clean."

Way to go!

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IIRC, that was the same Richard Boone who once said in an episode of "Have gun, will travel" that rifled barrels in revolvers were rare.
Actors say whatever the writer writes...and do whatever the director says.

We watched Bonanza, Gunsmoke, The Virginian and other westerns on TV at my house as a kid. My Dad wouldn't say too much about the many inaccuracies of ranch life generally. What did drive him crazy was the way that everyone would never get on a horse and walk him out. It was always from dead still to a dead run. That was a big old no-no on a ranch. Hard on horses, and it just looks amateurish,lol.
ETA, oh, that and the never ending six-shooter,haha. When it just became ridiculous, my Dad would have to comment.

I have listened to the anti-gun drivel in westerns for 70 years now and it continues today in movies. Back in the hay day of westerns on television and movies, I remember the old anti-gun line "the only guy who carries one needs one" , meaning that if you didn't own or carry a gun nobody would bother you. Guns were always depicted as evil, no guns, no violence. Nothing has changed in Hollywood or is likely to change. Common sense doesn't matter, only emotional drivel. But I still like westerns, warts and all. james

I still watch westerns for entertainment, I was raised up watching them with my dad, but he was quick to point out what was wrong, and what not to do. But I'd rather watch any old western than anything on tv nowadays. To much garbage!

Early in life I knew people who had done hard campaigning on horseback (which rather dates me), and have read memoirs of many more. The experience on numerous continents is that horses get used up faster than men. Big, fast horses in particular can live on grass but only do long and heavy work on hard feed. Even the cowboys used to work a rotation of modestly sized SUV horses which were at least part-way expendable. I don't think many relied on one fast horse that would chew through bonds for them.

I'm sure there were a lot of inaccuracies and poor practices being shown by Hollywood in both Bonanza and the Big Valley ,two of my favorites, but no social commentary?

Really? You and I didn't watch the same episodes.

I preferred the HigH chaparral myself and the 1st series of alias smith and Jones with Pete duel.

Some years back I had a Berreta 380, that had MGM markings. It was modified to a Dewat. The
gun came with solid brass cartridges in the magazine. I still have them, HPs. The barrel had been
machined at breech and inserted so no cartridge could be chambered. Gun had no firing pin and
slide had been filled so it couldn't be replaced. I didn't have much in it, was surprised it bought
so little at auction, $40.

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Originally Posted by TNsailorman

I have listened to the anti-gun drivel in westerns for 70 years now and it continues today in movies. Back in the hay day of westerns on television and movies, I remember the old anti-gun line "the only guy who carries one needs one" , meaning that if you didn't own or carry a gun nobody would bother you. Guns were always depicted as evil, no guns, no violence. Nothing has changed in Hollywood or is likely to change. Common sense doesn't matter, only emotional drivel. But I still like westerns, warts and all. james

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My dad was born in 1913. American and Canadian Cowboys would visit their farm in Southern Alberta in the late teens and twenties. Almost all carried a handgun. Either a Colt peacemaker or a Smith & Wesson third model
most were used to dispatch injured livestock. It was great to watch TV westerns with my dad. The gentlemen he described who rode the range back then matched the men in Lonsome Dove
Most good, some scoundrels, and a couple who were downright evil.
The life of a rancher was very hard work unless they had a wealthy backer. And even then they got slickered or just plain ran out of money

Late 50s, early 60s it was the fast draw artist. All were bragging about how fast they could draw until one guy comes along and said " when I make my move I gain time". Must have been Chuck Noris. I saw a picture a while back of my older brother and I in our cowboy outfits at Christmas. Probably taken about 1952.

Most movies of whatever nature are filled with inaccuracies. They are not history. They are entertainment.

I dont watch much of the old western tv shows. I didnt care for rifleman much. I liked rawhide okay. Bonanza was okay. Any of it is better than most anything on tv now.

Never knew much about Lorne Greene or Pernell Roberts, but heard Dan Blocker was apparently very nice. Mom ran into him in a supermarket one time and had a few words with him. Said he had a warmth that just put people immediately at ease.
Did know something about Michael Landon. Post Bonanza, he was one of the best producers in Hollywood to work for. His people were obsessively loyal to him because he was unquestionably loyal to them. Nobody on the MGM lot had a bad thing to say about him and nobody dared, cuz if one of his employees overheard, they'd take you out behind the wood shed.

Although it bothers me to see Model '92s being used in supposed 1860s, '70s and '80s scenes, I still get great pleasure from the Hollywood westerns.

For the most part, the westerns that tend toward greater accuracy in firearms tend to be those based on Louis L'Amour's stories and a few of the Clint Eastwood and Tom Selleck westerns.

Not one Marlin ended up in the Bonanza movie set dumpster. How unfair was that!!